Article

2007-02-19 Europe

French philosophers publicly disavow Ségolène Royal

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Posted by Mike 2007-02-19 06:11|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The New Philosphy movement was formed by French former maoist and communist philososphers after opening their eyes on the realities of Gulag, Cambodia and China. They were very critical of communism and marxism but most of them remained in the left.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 07:05|| 2007-02-19 07:05|| Front Page Top

#2 About Sartre: his participation inn the Resistance was zero, zilch, nada. But thanks to haviong sold his souil to the Communist Party (not Brejnev Communism's, Stalin's communism) after France's liberation he headed the Depuration Committe for Litterature. That allowed him to break the carrers of those who displeased him and more importantly to populate the carreermaking positions for litterature (eg reading comittees for main editors, jurys of litterary prizes) with communist sympathizers.

He was the man who told "Every anti-communist is a son of bitch" (that was in times of Stalin and lets not forget the help given by the French Communist Party to the Nazis during the 1940 invasion.

And about him "It is better to be wrong with Sartre than to be right with Aron". Aron was liberal, right winger and unlike Sartre a Free French from the beginning

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 07:15|| 2007-02-19 07:15|| Front Page Top

#3 Sartre wrote plays for the Communists in the 30s, then just as happily for the Nazis in the 40s, then for the Communists again after the war was lost. In his Anti-Semite and Jew he wrote that there would be Jews so long as there were antisemites to define and hate them. He was a nasty, dirty man who always looked for a way to live comfortably while servicing the hatreds of others.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-02-19 07:33|| 2007-02-19 07:33|| Front Page Top

#4 One class I was required to take while getting my French degree was a semester-long class reading Sartre works. After some time, I complained to my teacher that the wrong people always seemed to "come out on top" in his works and Sartre seemed to be championing evil. She said that those evil people are how humans really are.

I suppose she had a point-that there really are rotten people in the world (that's one good reason for the right to bear arms), but I grew exhausted reading that stuff. At the end of the semester, I had a book-burning festival with a colleague who also couldn't stand Sartre. This was my only book burning experience but it was one joyous, midnight event. My teacher was mortified-in her eyes I had become some redneck fascist burning books. I reminded her that it was my right to express my opinion of someone else's ideas this way-it was a form of freedom of speech. I wasn't suggesting that violence should be done to Sartre; I was showing what I thought of his works and letting off some steam after completing a very difficult and trying class.

I later was able to appreciate some of Sartre's works, but only after growing a thicker skin and adding a few years under my belt. Existentialism may be considered the sophisticate's philosophy, but to me it seems to encourage the worst in humanity.

Posted by Jules 2007-02-19 08:20|| 2007-02-19 08:20|| Front Page Top

#5 Sartre's remolding of French intelligentsia (thanks to his 1944 position in epuration committees) is not a minor factor for present days French anti-american hysteria at a moment where the civilized world should close ranks against the common enemy.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 08:20|| 2007-02-19 08:20|| Front Page Top

#6 One class I was required to take while getting my French degree was a semester-long class reading Sartre works.

Oh, you poor thing!

Posted by Mike 2007-02-19 08:26|| 2007-02-19 08:26|| Front Page Top

#7 :)

Posted by Jules 2007-02-19 08:31|| 2007-02-19 08:31|| Front Page Top

#8 One class I was required to take while getting my French degree was a semester-long class reading Sartre works.

Oh, you poor thing!

He was lucky. You could be forced to read Sartre in litterature class and then to read him again in philosophy class. I was lucky: my philosophy teacher thought he was a fourth rate philosopher and an el cheapo imitator of Heideger so I escaped the "Sartre as philosopher". But my teacher was an exception in French educational system. system.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 08:55|| 2007-02-19 08:55|| Front Page Top

#9 JFM-I agree you got the worse of the bargain by having to go through it twice, plus you had the added disadvantage of national adoration of the man. I paid the teacher back well in senior sem-I chose a Belgian symbolist, which was difficult for an existentialist to read. And by the way, I am a girl-the nickname carried over from childhood.

On topic, what is the French fascination with socialism?

Posted by Jules 2007-02-19 09:15|| 2007-02-19 09:15|| Front Page Top

#10 On topic, what is the French fascination with socialism?

Elites favor because it it gives them more power.

Non-elitees due to the record of injustice in the French society.

Voltaire and his gang wanted the right to vote only for those who were learned enough while advocating for the... closure of the schools for the poor because "instruction is harmful for the populace".

With Napoleon the blue collars became second calls citizens: no right to vote of course but also their testimony was BY LAW considered as inferior to the testimony of a bourgeois, no right to strike (that wasa abolished not by him) but by the Revolution. Finally blue collars were to have a booklet annotated by employers and police (ie a bad annotation and you could find impossible to get a new job).

Also unlike in America where workers were lettered (thanks to action of Protesxtant churches), encouraged to innovate and often had the minimum skills for starting their own business there no succes stories between French proletarians (delibarately kept unlettered by the bourgeoisie and working in top down companies).

Because French capitalism offered them no perspective French workers turned to socialism.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 11:17|| 2007-02-19 11:17|| Front Page Top

#11 Conscious that his backing of Mr Sarkozy would earn him many enemies, he described the Left as fatally out of touch and "marinating in its own narcissism".

It is a bit unfair to blame the French Left for "marinating in its own narcissism" when this is an apt description of France as a whole.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-02-19 11:42|| 2007-02-19 11:42|| Front Page Top

#12 sounds like the best of all possible worlds

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-19 11:49|| 2007-02-19 11:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Thanks for the input, JFM, I now have a different perspective on French politics.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2007-02-19 12:25|| 2007-02-19 12:25|| Front Page Top

#14 That's swell, Excalibur, you're a canuck IIRC, and you succeed in being more anti-french than a briton, which is a nice achievement, and I bet you're not even trying hard. Unfortunately, since Canada doesn't register on french collective imagination (excpet for québecquois who are generally seen in a positive way, with a charming accent and all), unlike the Perfide Albion for which we have lots of old fashioned intra-european prejudices, I cannot say back that canucks are X or do X... still, you do seem a bit obsessed with us froggies, being unable to give to the usual racist bashing which would get you sinktrapped if it were directed against blacks for example.

Btw, do you have keyboard shortcuts for that (smell, garlic, snails, surrender, white flag, etc, etc...) or do you have to type it each time?

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-02-19 12:38|| 2007-02-19 12:38|| Front Page Top

#15 chose a Belgian symbolist, which was difficult for an existentialist to read.

Oooh, the stilleto instead of the broadaxe! Delicious, Jules! Did you make him give you feedback on lots and lots of rewrites? ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2007-02-19 12:44|| 2007-02-19 12:44|| Front Page Top

#16 TW-:) It was torture enough for her to have to re-read the plays. Sadly, my senior sem was her last-she developed brain cancer and died within a year. She was actually pleased that she had re-read one of the plays-at the end of her life, she had a different perspective on it. She was a great mentor.

Ditto what Deacon said.

Posted by Jules 2007-02-19 13:20|| 2007-02-19 13:20|| Front Page Top

#17 "Elites favor because it it gives them more power."

I am guessing that this power would be the power to raise taxes and dole out monies to selected groups? But who is being taxed in France? Aren't the elites hit pretty hard by taxes there?

Probably lots of under the table income and tax loopholes the size of canyons?

Posted by Jules 2007-02-19 13:26|| 2007-02-19 13:26|| Front Page Top

#18 Probably lots of under the table income and tax loopholes the size of canyons?

Right on. The Enlightened Elites are living very well, thankyouverymuch, sucking money from the 17 millions of active french who have to support 43 millions civil servants, retirees, welfare recipients,... not only do they enjoy a free luxury life, all expense paid (the cook of the senate just won the Bocuse award, that means he's top notch), with a lifestyle unimaginable for an US pol,... but they earn lot of money (françois "I don't like rich people" hollande and marie-ségolène royal earn about 60 000 euros a month).

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-02-19 13:32|| 2007-02-19 13:32|| Front Page Top

#19 It is a bit unfair to blame the French Left for "marinating in its own narcissism" when this is an apt description of France as a whole.

Not to start a war here, but I for one, thought that was a quality shot. Sure, it's based on stereotype, so what. So is every black, ignorant American, drunken Canadian and hairy armpit joke.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-02-19 14:08|| 2007-02-19 14:08|| Front Page Top

#20 It's just that I'm not very receptive to repetition-based humor.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-02-19 14:11|| 2007-02-19 14:11|| Front Page Top

#21 I can see that. Something tiresome about hearing the same joke eleventeen-thousand times. Not sure what that would be in metric.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-02-19 14:15|| 2007-02-19 14:15|| Front Page Top

#22 Excellent mutual recognition Mike and 5089. Now, Pat and Mike wuz out for a walk with the village priest....

Posted by Shipman 2007-02-19 17:01|| 2007-02-19 17:01|| Front Page Top

#23 To those who make the kind of racsit anti-French jokes A6089 complained about I warn them that my dream is:

go into America, become a citizen, swear loyalty to the Contitution, become a member of the NRA, have a house with a mast flying the American flag and once there is no doubt to anyone I am a true American patriot, hunt the little jokers and make them swallow their teeth.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 17:26|| 2007-02-19 17:26|| Front Page Top

#24 I forgot the part about getting a thick Texan accent.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-02-19 17:28|| 2007-02-19 17:28|| Front Page Top

#25 just don't say "y'all" like our lil greek boy...

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-19 17:45|| 2007-02-19 17:45|| Front Page Top

#26 JFM, anytime you want to visit the Hill Country of Texas, y'all let me know. We kin go out and enjoy some good fun like shootin' ana drinkin' ana chasin' wimmen.

I supply the guns, you pay for the ammo and get the wimmin with your oh-so-sexy french voice.

Seriously. It would be a hoot (i.e. Texan for fun).

Posted by Brett 2007-02-19 17:56|| 2007-02-19 17:56|| Front Page Top

#27 Oh, yeah. Fishin' too.

Posted by Brett 2007-02-19 17:58|| 2007-02-19 17:58|| Front Page Top

#28 JFM, if you want to be a Texan you first have to get a belt buckle bigger than your head.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2007-02-19 19:11|| 2007-02-19 19:11|| Front Page Top

#29 If ya want fishing, JFM, come up to Alaska. We will go out to China Poot at Kachemak Bay and let the fish jump in the boat. Heh.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-02-19 20:36|| 2007-02-19 20:36|| Front Page Top

#30 JFM: if you're ever in Northeast Ohio, the beer (or wine in your case, I'd suspect) is on me.

Posted by Mike 2007-02-19 22:20|| 2007-02-19 22:20|| Front Page Top

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