Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Wed 03/04/2020 View Tue 03/03/2020 View Mon 03/02/2020 View Sun 03/01/2020 View Sat 02/29/2020 View Fri 02/28/2020 View Thu 02/27/2020
1
2020-03-04 Home Front: Politix
The Myth of Moderate Nuclear War. There are many influential supporters of nuclear war, and some of these contend that the use of
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 00:12|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ]  Top

#1 Is Russia your bug-a-boo, erb?
Posted by Skidmark 2020-03-04 00:58||   2020-03-04 00:58|| Front Page Top

#2 First of all, the notion that Russia would take the first step to nuclear war is completely baseless, and there is no evidence that this could ever be contemplated

What an idiotic claim. The exact opposite is true. Just two of many examples are these documents from the Soviet general staff during the Brezhnev era - excerpt:

Under these conditions, the commanders and headquarters staff of the Eastern Forces were supposed to quickly ascertain the deadlines for the beginning of an enemy nuclear attack and to carry out reconnaissance of important targets as well as prepare aerial forces, rocket troops and artillery to the highest level possible, all the while making arrangements for a first nuclear strike on the enemy.
Posted by Lex 2020-03-04 01:54||   2020-03-04 01:54|| Front Page Top

#3 Seriously, Mr. McCoy — Ron Paul?
Posted by trailing wife 2020-03-04 02:13||   2020-03-04 02:13|| Front Page Top

#4 Any Crank in a pinch for trolling
Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 04:34||   2020-03-04 04:34|| Front Page Top

#5 Call me crazy, but I don't want to die in a nuclear war started by insane DC elites who can't see anything but their own objectives. It's a controversial opinion, I know, but I'm sticking with it.

We're not in the Brezhnev Era any more. Time to update our worldviews. There are frightening ghouls in DC and the Pentagon who think we can just pop off a couple of small nukes and it will end there.

Frankly, I remember the most common scenario for a nuclear war to start. See if it sounds familiar. Warsaw Pact starts an invasion over the inner-German line. Goes poorly, NATO battlefield commanders begin urgently requesting release of tactical nuclear weapons to break up Pact formations. Faced with the prospect of the Red Army in Antwerp, the political decision is made to release nuclear codes for use by local commanders. The Soviets begin replying with their own tactical nukes. NATO then starts using larger nukes on Pershings to hit logistics centers behind the lines. Things escalate and there is a single strategic nuclear strike, on Minsk for example. This triggers a full scale exchange. All sides lose, nuclear winter begins for the next 10,000 years. Anyone else remember this one, or is it just me?

Ron Paul isn't right 100% of the time, but nobody is. I think his plan to audit the Federal Reserve is an excellent one. They print our money and sell it back to us at a profit.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 04:38||   2020-03-04 04:38|| Front Page Top

#6 Call me crazy

OK.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-04 04:41||   2020-03-04 04:41|| Front Page Top

#7 Anyone else remember this one, or is it just me?

Just you...and Major General Smedley Butler
Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 04:44||   2020-03-04 04:44|| Front Page Top

#8 It's just incredible that a Marine Major General, twice a Medal of Honor recipient, who thwarted a fascist coup to overthrow the US government, is considered a villain by you people.

Un-fucking-believable.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 05:29||   2020-03-04 05:29|| Front Page Top

#9 ^Tailored for incels.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-04 05:30||   2020-03-04 05:30|| Front Page Top

#10 When that ramp came down in Saving Private Ryan and the soldiers stormed ashore, you people were cheering for the fascists, weren't you?
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 05:33||   2020-03-04 05:33|| Front Page Top

#11 LOL.

Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 05:44||   2020-03-04 05:44|| Front Page Top

#12 Naturally Crazy Herb: Zionism = Nazism!
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-04 05:47||   2020-03-04 05:47|| Front Page Top

#13 
Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 05:51||   2020-03-04 05:51|| Front Page Top

#14 Methinks Herb is strongly BDS.
Posted by Dron66046 2020-03-04 06:55||   2020-03-04 06:55|| Front Page Top

#15 Well Herb is right about the debate
We had the equivalent of a full chair throwing debate the morning of prefix 5 school at Oberammergau about how long it would take for the use of one tactical nuke on an autobahn ridge to escalate into a full nuclear exchange

I thought then and still think that deploying one small nuke is a one way ticket to an extinction level nuclear war
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2020-03-04 07:08||   2020-03-04 07:08|| Front Page Top

#16 Consider the following paras.

Once a nuclear weapon has exploded and killed people, the nuclear-armed nation to which these people belonged is going to take massive action. There is no alternative, because no government is just going to sit there ...

And

But there is no precedent for nuclear war, and nobody ‐ nobody ‐ knows for certain what reactions will be to such a situation in or near any nation.


When a text contains two paragraphs so logically inconsistent, I disregard the entire text as fear mongering balderdash.

And no matter what some 'expert' or some pol says, I don't think you'll ever really meet many 'influential supporters of nuclear war' when it comes to actually making the call.

There has only been one nuke attack, on Japan. Everybody was so mortified (maybe rightly so), the human race practically cancelled out that option mentally right then. If they hadn't, an outrage like 9/11 would have led to only one irreversible outcome - the destruction of Afghanistan and subsequent radiation fallout for parts of pakistain. Jihad would have been finished for Asia.
Posted by Dron66046 2020-03-04 07:11||   2020-03-04 07:11|| Front Page Top

#17 Sounds like somebody needs to re-watch War Games.
Posted by AlanC 2020-03-04 07:34||   2020-03-04 07:34|| Front Page Top

#18 I don't want to die in a nuclear war

You should be safe in your mother's basement.
Posted by Skidmark 2020-03-04 09:01||   2020-03-04 09:01|| Front Page Top

#19 More likely to die in a tupper war.

Posted by swksvolFF 2020-03-04 09:09||   2020-03-04 09:09|| Front Page Top

#20 NB - the first limited nuclear war involved only the employment of two nukes.
Posted by Procopius2k 2020-03-04 10:54||   2020-03-04 10:54|| Front Page Top

#21 (1) The article incoherently jumps from "War is bad, Nuclear War is horrible" to " we don't know, so we can't even discuss it!".

(2) The underlying thesis seems to be implying that nuclear war between US/NATO Vs. Soviet Union/PRC/Warsaw Pact is the exact same thing as an "exchange" with Iran or North Korea because ... "Nuclear Warfare is DoublePlus Bad!"

...and I agree with #15 SPOD that the keeping Tactical Nuclear Warfare "Tactical" is a fool's ambition. I lived within the primary blast zone of a major USAF airbase and it was only in my twenties that the specter of being vaporized started to abate...
Posted by magpie 2020-03-04 11:08||   2020-03-04 11:08|| Front Page Top

#22 There are atomic demolitions whose purpose is to literally move a good portion of a mountain top to the valley below. It's not used against troops, installation, or people (unless they so happen to be underneath the big slide).
Posted by Procopius2k 2020-03-04 11:15||   2020-03-04 11:15|| Front Page Top

#23 Are there really people discussing limited nuclear war these days? Who outside of the Rand Paul Institute is discussing this?

Desire for smaller warheads doesn't mean you really want limited nuclear war, it more likely means you'd like multiple warheads on the same rocket as a further deterrent.
Posted by rjschwarz 2020-03-04 15:42||   2020-03-04 15:42|| Front Page Top

#24 Eric Swalwell and the Rand Paul Institutionals.
Posted by swksvolFF 2020-03-04 15:54||   2020-03-04 15:54|| Front Page Top

#25 There are atomic demolitions whose purpose is to literally move a good portion of a mountain top to the valley below.

Or implode underground domes and tunnel complexes.
Posted by Skidmark 2020-03-04 16:58||   2020-03-04 16:58|| Front Page Top

22:54 DarthVader
22:27 JohnQC
21:53 Don Vito Crereng5853
21:19 swksvolFF
21:19 Whiskey Mike
21:03 Mullah Richard
21:00 Mullah Richard
20:33 ruprecht
20:27 Frank G
19:56 Don Vito Crereng5853
19:43 Woodrow
19:41 Woodrow
18:47 The peanut gallery
18:23 Besoeker
18:08 lord garth
17:49 Skidmark
17:46 Lex
17:38 Lex
17:36 Lex
17:25 Skidmark
17:23 Skidmark
17:18 Thing From Snowy Mountain
17:13 M. Murcek
17:06 jpal









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com