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2006-03-30 Fifth Column

An Easy Way to expose concealed Anti-Americanism

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Posted by Mike 2006-03-30 12:13|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I've never heard it put quite this way - The United States of America, and anti-Americanism - but it really does sum it up well, doesn't it.

What's different now, than in the past is that their is another player on the field, radical Islam. They have to decide if they want to embrace Islam in their fight against America. It's so self-destructive, but by what I've been seeing in the last month or two, they seem to be ready to embrace radical Islam. Not really surprising since they've been willing to embrace blood thirsty dictators for the last century.

But embracing Islam is a bit different in that they will have to do a complete turnabout in what they claim to stand for and make changes in their own life - including tolerating the intolerance of their very own lifestyles. This will be interesting to watch.

Posted by 2b 2006-03-30 12:59|| 2006-03-30 12:59|| Front Page Top

#2 Just as an aside, I predict that we will see moderate Muslims fight with us in the war against the return to barbarity.

This is becoming civilization v/s a return to barbarity. It will be interestingt to see how the sides shape up.

Posted by 2b 2006-03-30 13:03|| 2006-03-30 13:03|| Front Page Top

#3 Just as an aside, I predict that we will see moderate Muslims fight with us in the war against the return to barbarity.

When?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-30 13:57|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-30 13:57|| Front Page Top

#4 Just as an aside, I predict that we will see moderate Muslims fight with us in the war against the return to barbarity.
--2b

When?
--Robert Crawford

The elected Iraqi government, its police and army and citizenry, for starters.

Posted by Mike 2006-03-30 14:05|| 2006-03-30 14:05|| Front Page Top

#5 Oh gosh, I wish you hadn't asked me that, because it is such a long train of thought that gets me there and I don't have time to write the whole long mental process.

I'll try to give it in a nutshell. I think that there has been a tectonic shift that has occurred in the last two months for those who felt it was chic to be anti-American. Now they have to decide between radical Islam, the new leader of the anti-American superpower and freedom. And it won't in some far off place but in their own neighborhoods in Boston or Bakersville that they have to choose to accept the change. This will include all of those "I'm Chic Because I'm Anti-American" BDS type folks here in the western world, but also the educated Muslims in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and other semi-civilized countries.

I guess I'm seeing this shape up as a conflict between tyranny and freedom and I suspect that billions in the Muslim world will eventually come down on the side of choosing to find ways to dilute their own religion in exchange for ridding themselves of tyranny. If we are lucky, we may see it in Iraq.

Look at it this way, I heard Alan Colmes (of Hannity and Colmes) defending Yale's decision to enroll the Taliban butcher. Yet I've heard the Muslim women who escaped from Afghanistan denouncing it.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not going to the issue of Muslims inability to reconcile their faith to life in the western world. But I think the western world will soon, after a few more "incidents" demand that from them. And it will probably get bloody before that happens. But I predict that events will make it come about that we won't tolerate the sedition of those who come here and then vote/murder/incite to remove our freedoms - whether they are Muslims, Christians, Jews Atheists, or tree worshipers.

I believe that billions in the Muslim world would be willing to dilute their faith in exchange for freedom both here in the US and in their native lands.

I just think there are as many stupid people here in the US (americans) who are no different than the stupid people who Sadr riles up. Look at Cynthia McKinney. Are her constituents any less stupid? And I think there are many smart people in the Muslim world - like Iraq the Model, etc, etc.

This is going to be a global war of freedom v/s tyranny - and the sides won't be Americans v/s Iran or Christians v/s Muslims ... but it will be those who want freedom v/s those who will bow to tyranny.

JMHO. Not much of a nutshell. Sorry.

Posted by 2b 2006-03-30 14:52|| 2006-03-30 14:52|| Front Page Top

#6 Americans and anti-Americans.

Or those that left (aka immigrated to America) and the left-behind (no balls or desire to leave). The left-behind often hold a grudge, especially when those that left them turn out to be very successful.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-03-30 15:37|| 2006-03-30 15:37|| Front Page Top

#7 I would have agreed with you 2b had I not recently read the Koran. What a sorry piece of work. It filled not just with hatred, but with direct incitements to violence and domination (especially against us Pagans -- you Christians and Jews get to be dhimmis, we just get the sword). Any orthodox (alternatively, fundamentalist or mainsteam) Muslim is thus necessarily an ememy.

But there are millions of secular Muslims, liberal Muslims, and heterodox Muslims (Alevis, Sufis, Ismailis, Ahmadis, etc.) But they have lost the battle for the core of the faith. And when push comes to shove, who will they side with? I'm not at all sure.

Posted by pagan infidel 2006-03-30 16:35|| 2006-03-30 16:35|| Front Page Top

#8 pagan, I actually agree with you. It's the battle of tolerance and collective good v/s power attained by the use blame, hate, revenge and brutal force.

That said, I think there is a similar battle going on in the Muslim world, but they are a couple of centuries behind us and as you say, their religion undermines their efforts to achieve it.

But most everyone yearns to be free. I think Americans and other westerners will come around to agreeing, after more bloodshed, that we simply cannot allow immigrants, who do not adhere to our beliefs, to come here and undermine what we have by turning our courts, our democracy and ways of tolerance against us. I think you will see the battle shaping up along those lines in the months and years to come. It will be global.

But we have to remember that much of the battle is going to be amongst ourselves, right here at home. There is a good portion of our own citizens, our media, our educational institutions and our congress that works to undermine these very freedoms as well. These are our neighbors, friends and family. We do ourselves a disservice if we don't recognize that the battle lines are no longer country v/s country, or along religious lines, but a battle between those willing to fight for freedom and those who will submit to tyranny.

I guess as much as things change, they stay the same.

Posted by 2b 2006-03-30 17:51|| 2006-03-30 17:51|| Front Page Top

#9 I've thought a lot about anti-Amercanism and what causes it. As the article illustrates, it's fundamentally irrational.

I have recently concluded that at root its a manifestation of 'blame the Other' thinking. In the same way the Arabs avoid their own problems by blaming the Jews, often in bizzare conspiracies, many in this world avoid facing up to their own failings by blaming America.

Posted by phil_b">phil_b 2006-03-30 19:18|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/] 2006-03-30 19:18|| Front Page Top

#10 I think that what it boils down to, is that for the mythical moderate muslims to be able to learn how to get along well with others, is that they are going to have to admit quite plainly that "As far as bibles go, the Koran kinda sucks".

Which it does.

Not holding my breath ...

Posted by Beau 2006-03-30 20:07|| 2006-03-30 20:07|| Front Page Top

#11 Well said, 2b -- and I certainly hope that you are right. I suspect that the "cartoon war" turned a lot of minds, and I hope that more than a few of those were Muslim ones.

I just read a book called Defenders of Reason in Islam: Mutazilism from Medieval Schoool to Modern Symbol. The Mutazilas were Muslim rationalists and liberals --- unfortunately they are all but extinct. One of them, an Egyptian professor named Abu Zayd, was officially declared a Kafir by an Egyptian high court in 1995. They didn't kill him, but they did force his wife to divorce him. (And we give how much money every year to Egypt?)

Posted by pagan infidel 2006-03-30 20:15|| 2006-03-30 20:15|| Front Page Top

#12 I think the hatred of the anti-Americaqns, the UN, fifth-column Americans, Euro-socialists, the world's fashion elite, and terrorists together, is quite rational.

America is modernity. America's creative destruction is destroying the world the anti-Americans grew up in and love. In the last century the Americans saw to the destruction of the European empires, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Modernity, as created by the Americans has changed every traditional culture in the world such that they will never be the same. And the change is not stopping. They are correct, the only way to stop the change is to destroy America. It is unfortunate for them that they cannot succeed.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-03-30 20:31|| 2006-03-30 20:31|| Front Page Top

#13 Pagan - thanks, right you are about those cartoons. I feel sorry for that cartoonist. Minding his own business, drawing his little cartoons and then suddenly he is suddenly thrust into a pivotal moment in history.

America's creative destruction is destroying the world the anti-Americans grew up in and love.

Which world is that Nimble? The one that gave rise to the Nazi's and other despots murdering billions? The one that created potato famines and starving peasants? Where most children died before reaching adulthood?

Ah, the good ol days. Fact is they were never all that good. But its fun to pretend that it's all America's fault that the best of times still don't exist.

Posted by 2b 2006-03-30 22:23|| 2006-03-30 22:23|| Front Page Top

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