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2020-04-17 -Land of the Free

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Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ] Top

#1 Bless this man.
Let us work. Let us earn our bread.
Let this country live again

Posted by Lex 2020-04-17 00:17|| 2020-04-17 00:17|| Front Page Top

#2 We have a new class of bitter clingers now - those who bitterly cling to the idea America must be reduced to third world economic status because Tony Fauci and scarf woman say so.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 02:35|| 2020-04-17 02:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Shifting the burden back to the governors was a brilliant move

Trump whitewashed the fence

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 03:02|| 2020-04-17 03:02|| Front Page Top

#4 p.s. I'm tired of people badmouthing Fauci. The man is doing his job - advising the president as to epidemiological consequences of a likely actions - to the best of currently available knowledge. It is his job to consider economic consequences* - what's why Trump has economic advisers. And then Trump, whose job it is, decides (and shifts the inevitable blame to governors - he is a genius).

*I do have a message for all the economists who suddenly became experts on epidemiology. Zip your ignorant yaps. You have no more understanding of epidemiology and virology than an ~~dog~~ journalist. In fact, you have no understanding of your own area of expertise - as demonstrated by a Nobel Laureate Krugman.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 03:25|| 2020-04-17 03:25|| Front Page Top

#5 "It is his job to consider economic consequences" --> It is NOT his job to consider economic consequences

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 03:26|| 2020-04-17 03:26|| Front Page Top

#6 Lots of people are tired of yet another non elected clerisy messing with their lives in a detached academic way. If they and those who back them get away with only hurt feelings it will be a tribute to common decency, not slavish obeisance to mythical mathematical models.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 03:33|| 2020-04-17 03:33|| Front Page Top

#7 IMO, Trump left decision to governors because there are going to be tens of thousands new deaths once the quarantine is lifted. That's my prediction. Care to make your own, MM - so we can wait and see?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 03:41|| 2020-04-17 03:41|| Front Page Top

#8 People die every day. Only recently has it become a reason to abandon reason. We didn't shut down the economy for HIV. We did regulate who could donate blood. The current shotgun approach to covid is a bad answer to the wrong question.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 03:49|| 2020-04-17 03:49|| Front Page Top

#9 It short, you aren't willing to commit to a definite statement.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 03:51|| 2020-04-17 03:51|| Front Page Top

#10 I leave the easily punctured balloon turf to people like you, G.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 03:55|| 2020-04-17 03:55|| Front Page Top

#11 How many of the now clearly incorrect model predictions are you willing to say you backed at the time? Care to make a clear cut statement? Hmmm?

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 03:58|| 2020-04-17 03:58|| Front Page Top

#12 Typical.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 04:00|| 2020-04-17 04:00|| Front Page Top

#13 I explained, in one of my posts, about the difference between qualitative and quantitative. If you had anything - even remotely resembling intellectual honesty - you'd look at the stats for Sweden/Holland: where they went your way.
Here's another "easily punctured" prediction for you: the "Economy", as you know it, is dead. It's never coming back.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 04:07|| 2020-04-17 04:07|| Front Page Top

#14 Typical. You mean no reverence for a credentialed number mangler? Well, Yeah...

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 04:07|| 2020-04-17 04:07|| Front Page Top

#15 Make your own, testable, predictions - or zip up. I don't care about your feelings.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 04:14|| 2020-04-17 04:14|| Front Page Top

#16 Herbgoru - "where are your sources!?!" I don't have any sources or predictions. Don't got no stinking badge either.
Anti-Neocon Snark O'The Day

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 04:25|| 2020-04-17 04:25|| Front Page Top

#17 I refer back to my comment #2. The rest of the thread bears it out.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 04:28|| 2020-04-17 04:28|| Front Page Top

#18 Which part of "stop emoting at me", you didn't understand?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 04:30|| 2020-04-17 04:30|| Front Page Top

#19 Yawn.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 04:32|| 2020-04-17 04:32|| Front Page Top

#20 ^ makes as much sense as magic numbers. Zero Hedge "only Murica bad" quality rant.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 07:44|| 2020-04-17 07:44|| Front Page Top

#21 One of the problems with this whole discussion about the Whu Flu is the lack of good information that is applicable across the board.

I think people (other than me) are a bit sick and tired of the idea that "We must listen to the experts." When the experts don't all agree.

There is a known type of issue with academics and their research that can be summed up by the witticism that at school you learn more and more about less and less till you know everything about nothing.

Too many mono-maniacs pushing their one true "answer" when the problem is systemic and not susceptible to a point solution. Note that does not mean just the virus but the whole mess which is as much political as it is biological.

Fauci and scarf woman can speak to the biological (and they aren't the only ones, and their stories have changed) but not the economic or politic sides and it is up to Trump and the govs to add all the pieces together to come up with a plan.

Posted by AlanC 2020-04-17 08:15|| 2020-04-17 08:15|| Front Page Top

#22 I'll take up the charge and repeat a prediction, also make another one.

Old, existing prediction (made on Mar. 22): the US will likely top out at not more than 34,000 COVID fatalities. (Worst case would have been ~88,000 but we won't come close to that unless CDC thoroughly cooks the books.)

New, additional prediction: however, the US will register more than 80,000 additional non-COVID deaths that could have been prevented had our leaders not panicked. This number will come mainly from

1) 10,000 preventable non-COVID deaths in New York City due to NYC authorities' neglect of other patients requiring urgent care, which by my estimates using CDC data amounts to ~3,000 such deaths through Apr. 11, or about 70-75% of NYC's tallies of COVID-probable deaths.

2) another 10,000 deaths due to a 20-25% spike in the suicide rate due to economic ruin (per recent studies, 22% was the probable increase that occurred in the early years of the Depression)

3) another 60,000 deaths eventually from economic ruin and the resulting unbearable stress and despair: heart attacks, addiction, domestic violence, violent crime.

Posted by Lex 2020-04-17 08:18|| 2020-04-17 08:18|| Front Page Top

#23 #21 - When the experts don't all agree.

That, my boys, is science.

Posted by Bobby 2020-04-17 08:28|| 2020-04-17 08:28|| Front Page Top

#24 And, how is this "prediction" more significant than picking a horse or some lottery numbers? After all the shouting the larger human enterprise must go on. The dead will be buried and more vinyl siding will be sold (though hopefully not Chinese made)

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 10:07|| 2020-04-17 10:07|| Front Page Top

#25 re: #23

it ain't rocket science, it's harder.

the leadership problem is that you have to weigh all the conflicting data and opinions and come to a conclusion that is a best fit for you population and authority.

How would you "model" the problem and include Pelosi's slow walking the laws? Or the Govs responses based on their personal election issues? That's something Trump has to factor in. Now add the CCP, WHO with the DNC....and the hole keeps getting deeper and changing shape.

Good luck with that.

Posted by AlanC 2020-04-17 10:13|| 2020-04-17 10:13|| Front Page Top

#26 ^That's why Trump showed the onus over to the governors - he's a genius.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 10:15|| 2020-04-17 10:15|| Front Page Top

#27 Shifting the burden back to the governors was a brilliant move

Maybe I've been reading the Constitution wrong all of these years, but isn't that where the 'burden' belonged in the first place, or at least the primary burden?

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 10:21|| 2020-04-17 10:21|| Front Page Top

#28 And now M. Murcek realizes what an irritant g(r)om is on occasion. I'm not alone anymore!

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 10:23|| 2020-04-17 10:23|| Front Page Top

#29 ^ It is, but if they could blame deaths on OrangeManBad, they would. Now it feels like a victory to them (and the onus as well)

Posted by Frank G 2020-04-17 10:24|| 2020-04-17 10:24|| Front Page Top

#30 Try and keep your state shut down when the adjacent one is open and thriving?

Posted by Frank G 2020-04-17 10:25|| 2020-04-17 10:25|| Front Page Top

#31 #29 was responding to #27

Posted by Frank G 2020-04-17 10:26|| 2020-04-17 10:26|| Front Page Top

#32 Try and keep your state shut down when the adjacent one is open and thriving?

That's exactly what will happen when New Hampshire (my home state) opens up before Massachusetts. Will be interesting to watch, if that's the right word for it.

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 10:29|| 2020-04-17 10:29|| Front Page Top

#33 ^Twice as brilliant.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 10:30|| 2020-04-17 10:30|| Front Page Top

#34 Ooops. Wrong thread.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 10:30|| 2020-04-17 10:30|| Front Page Top

#35 Actually right thread #29

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 10:31|| 2020-04-17 10:31|| Front Page Top

#36 Or 27

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 10:32|| 2020-04-17 10:32|| Front Page Top

#37 Constitution has been abused for so long hardly anybody pays attention to it, and that includes judges who'd rather legislate from the bench.

Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 10:33|| 2020-04-17 10:33|| Front Page Top

#38 #28, noticed it long before, went some rounds. He's a good guy but way too full of himself, Bill Gates without the accidental billions. I'm just an opinionated dumb schmuck who doesn't see any wisdom in any credentialed oaf's shadow.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 10:36|| 2020-04-17 10:36|| Front Page Top

#39 Two words "asymptomatic carrier".

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 10:40|| 2020-04-17 10:40|| Front Page Top

#40 Fauci is suspect.

Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 10:42|| 2020-04-17 10:42|| Front Page Top

#41 I'm a symptomatic carrier of scepticism

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 10:44|| 2020-04-17 10:44|| Front Page Top

#42 /\ Well said!

Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 10:45|| 2020-04-17 10:45|| Front Page Top

#43 Doesn't matter whether Fauci (Fauxi) is believable or even correct. He's an unelected advisor and at no point should anyone suggest his opinion should automatically become the law of the land. That simple. Even a magic numbers guy like grom should get it. Not saying a Democrat governor is smart enough to digest it.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 10:48|| 2020-04-17 10:48|| Front Page Top

#44 Well, whether or not I trust "Fauxi", he is an advisor, and advisors assist their bosses to make informed decisions. But even doctors often refer patients to get a "second opinion".

Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 10:56|| 2020-04-17 10:56|| Front Page Top

#45 Life is going to go on. Governors are going to find out they don't have unlimited authority. People like grom will call those who go back out in the streets killers. This time next year we will be talking about something entirely else.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:03|| 2020-04-17 11:03|| Front Page Top

#46 Hopefully we will be talking about how refusing to sell the Chinese treasury bills has sobered up the American gummint. Won't happen, but it's a nice dream...

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:05|| 2020-04-17 11:05|| Front Page Top

#47 People (Americans?) generally have the attention span of a gnat with their fast-food/Twit mentality. I agree. This will be forgotten. The only concern is the overall economy. If this is such a "consumer-driven" economy, will people show more concern about their household budgets (which will hit the earnings of the various companies) or will they go hog-wild and run out and, for example, buy three of the latest and greatest iPhones? We'll see.

Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 11:12|| 2020-04-17 11:12|| Front Page Top

#48 The iPhone cohort is ripe for a $5000.00 phone. I'd say Joe and Jill will be a bit more pecunious, maybe even niggardly....

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:18|| 2020-04-17 11:18|| Front Page Top

#49 I said it yesterday "Fauci advises, Trump decides" - too bad you can't pay attention to anything that doesn't fit your prejudices
Mr "I don't read (#4) :

Instamoron - because I'm banned for calling Tesla owners a cult.

Ace of Spades - Commenters talking about raping your dead mother.

Hot Air - Only communist concern Commenters need apply.

Red State - The dark matter portion of the Never Trump universe."

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 11:18|| 2020-04-17 11:18|| Front Page Top

#50 All stuff a person is essentially ignorant without exposure to. I take back what I said about you being a "good guy"

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:22|| 2020-04-17 11:22|| Front Page Top

#51 I'm devastated.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 11:28|| 2020-04-17 11:28|| Front Page Top

#52 And Joe & Jill might even be from Niger....

Posted by Clem 2020-04-17 11:32|| 2020-04-17 11:32|| Front Page Top

#53 I think devoluted is the word you need.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:32|| 2020-04-17 11:32|| Front Page Top

#54 Thread o the day and it's only halftime

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:44|| 2020-04-17 11:44|| Front Page Top

#55 See ya after lunch, Sam.
See ya after lunch, Ralph.

Posted by Lex 2020-04-17 11:51|| 2020-04-17 11:51|| Front Page Top

#56 When it comes to restarting the stalled economy I think we've never had a better President for the job.

Posted by rjschwarz 2020-04-17 11:55|| 2020-04-17 11:55|| Front Page Top

#57 But it will all be blood money if one single person dies of COVID-19 after the stupidtine ends.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 11:57|| 2020-04-17 11:57|| Front Page Top

#58 I see grom is still predicting dire death for us all. This has all been utter bullshit. New York City, New Orleans, and a handful of other places should have had their own plan to deal with the weight they were bearing, and most of the rest of the country should have gone on with their business. The petty mayors and governors aren't going to give up the raw *power* they grabbed easily, but its time for freedom loving Americans to push back. End this bullshit now.

Posted by Crusader 2020-04-17 12:10|| 2020-04-17 12:10|| Front Page Top

#59 Nawlins working overtime to make sure COVID-19 doesn't eclipse Katrina.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 12:12|| 2020-04-17 12:12|| Front Page Top

#60 Live people don't give a sh*t about dead people. Ask anyone who has had a loved one die

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 12:16|| 2020-04-17 12:16|| Front Page Top

#61 Ideology kills.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-17 12:18|| 2020-04-17 12:18|| Front Page Top

#62 /\....still predicting dire death for us all.

I simply can't die, I've got too much invested in long-term care. New electric razor, new My Pillow and Alexa standing by.

Posted by Besoeker 2020-04-17 12:18|| 2020-04-17 12:18|| Front Page Top

#63 So, #61, if I think "correctly," I will never die.

Idiot.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 12:28|| 2020-04-17 12:28|| Front Page Top

#64 #62 - LOL

Posted by Frank G 2020-04-17 12:29|| 2020-04-17 12:29|| Front Page Top

#65 Any ideation that involves moving about carries the risk of death. Only a magic numbers moron would miss that fact.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 12:33|| 2020-04-17 12:33|| Front Page Top

#66 Are you sad you won't get to vote for Marianne scented candles this fall grom?

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 12:36|| 2020-04-17 12:36|| Front Page Top

#67 To your corners, gentlemen.

Posted by trailing wife 2020-04-17 13:44|| 2020-04-17 13:44|| Front Page Top

#68 tw - I just posted something that got eaten up by a Rantburg filter. Can you remove the offending word and repost it for me? Thanks in advance.

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 13:50|| 2020-04-17 13:50|| Front Page Top

#69 I say, let them fight...

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 13:53|| 2020-04-17 13:53|| Front Page Top

#70 Only a magic numbers moron would miss that fact.

Come on, man - I'm an accountant; I do magic numbers all the time!

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 13:55|| 2020-04-17 13:55|| Front Page Top

#71 It's a valid debate. Too bad it has to get so personal, not to mention political. It's gotta be a tough call for Trump. He has to make decisions in real time based on information that is often less than perfect. How would Joe do in the same circumstances? How would anybody do? It can't be easy.

We might find some middle ground. Old folks like me should perhaps stay home. My kids might be ready to go back to work. The gray area is the kid who still lives with us. If he goes back to work then we could get exposed through him and I don't want to get exposed.

At a plant like Smithfield, a compromise might be cutting production in order to enforce social distancing, although PPEs might have been a better idea for that place.

The N95 might well become the latest fashion trend. Mass transit might need to be rethought. Telecommuting might need to be done a lot more.

Letting the governors decide sounds good in theory because each state bears different risks. Realistically, some governors are bound to make better calls than others(cough, cough, Democrats).

Bottom line is: we simply CANNOT afford to do this indefinitely and we CANNOT do it every time some new bug gets loose in China. If we need more hospitals, ventilators and PPEs then get on with it. We certainly need more research into vaccines and cures. Most importantly, we need a LOT less exposure to China.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2020-04-17 14:00|| 2020-04-17 14:00|| Front Page Top

#72 Can't we all just get along?
/sarc

Posted by Skidmark 2020-04-17 14:30|| 2020-04-17 14:30|| Front Page Top

#73 Raj, you work with real numbers, not bullshit picked out of the air. Well, maybe. But your numbers don't put millions out of work on a bad guess.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 14:55|| 2020-04-17 14:55|| Front Page Top

#74 This mess is the same as your doctor asking if you have a gun in your house. Since the Trump flag stealing doctors, you can now respond "I'll answer that question after you show me your rap sheet, doc."

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 15:14|| 2020-04-17 15:14|| Front Page Top

#75 A summary of the Trump plan can be read here:

Trump Releases Evidence-Based Guidelines to Reopen America in Three Phases

Also contained therein is a link to the full proposal.

tw - I just posted something that got eaten up by a Rantburg filter. Can you remove the offending word and repost it for me? Thanks in advance.

Probably it is not available to me, Raj — Fred very wisely does not let me anywhere near the levers of power, and I have no more idea of the secret forbidden words than you (although I assume many are related to pharmaceuticals).

Posted by trailing wife 2020-04-17 15:21|| 2020-04-17 15:21|| Front Page Top

#76 Raj, if you mean the Vox article, that is sitting in the hopper for tomorrow in all its glory. Otherwise I don’t see anything with your name on it.

Posted by trailing wife 2020-04-17 15:27|| 2020-04-17 15:27|| Front Page Top

#77 Link at #75 were my thoughts as well.

The difficult part will be convincing people to not go to more relaxed phase zones.

Posted by swksvolFF 2020-04-17 16:04|| 2020-04-17 16:04|| Front Page Top

#78 "Oh, honey let's do a vacation where they don't wear masks!" Really? That's embarrassingly dumb to even bring up.

Posted by M. Murcek 2020-04-17 16:26|| 2020-04-17 16:26|| Front Page Top

#79 It is, and it is already happening. People from locked-down Wichita are traveling to the countryside. Even better, they like getting selfies with the turkeys. It is turkey season and they walk right into the line of fire.

Pretty dumb.

Posted by swksvolFF 2020-04-17 16:37|| 2020-04-17 16:37|| Front Page Top

#80 Consider the temptation, after doing the deal for 8 weeks, of taking a day trip to an open hair salon, or bowling alley, or swimming pool.

And yeah, wearing a mask sucks, especially for those not used to wearing one.

Posted by swksvolFF 2020-04-17 16:50|| 2020-04-17 16:50|| Front Page Top

#81 TW - thanks for looking into that for me.

Posted by Raj 2020-04-17 17:06|| 2020-04-17 17:06|| Front Page Top

#82 And yeah, wearing a mask sucks, especially for those not used to wearing one.

Posted by Skidmark 2020-04-17 17:41|| 2020-04-17 17:41|| Front Page Top

#83 Civil, Well-Reasoned Discourse. See picture at top of Rantburg.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2020-04-17 20:53|| 2020-04-17 20:53|| Front Page Top

#84 And I bought that helmet! Thanks Skid.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2020-04-17 21:00|| 2020-04-17 21:00|| Front Page Top

23:31 Dr. Wheat Faartz007
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19:59 Besoeker
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