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2006-05-28 Home Front: Politix

U.S. Ambassador to Armenia fired for referring to Armenian genocide

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Posted by anonymous5089 2006-05-28 11:23|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Reminds me of the Fawlty Towers "The Germans" episode in which Basil (John Cleese) falls all over himself trying not to mention "the war" in the presence of German guests and fails miserably.
http://www.fawltysite.net/episode06.htm

Seriously, are the Turks really worth all this arse kissing? I think not.

Posted by Darrell 2006-05-28 12:28|| 2006-05-28 12:28|| Front Page Top

#2 Under no circumstances do you want an ambassador who says what he thinks and believes. That is as wrong for him as it is for an elementary school teacher who wants to politically rant at 10 year olds instead of teaching them.

An ambassador should only state the official policy of the US government. If he doesn't have an official policy to state, then he says "no comment", or "I will make inquiries and get back to you." He does not make policy at all, he relays policy to other governments and back, as undistorted as possible. He is a courier.

The old joke was of the US ambassador at a hostile dinner, in which every other person seated at the table berated the US and the ambassador personally in the rudest and crudest of ways, to which he always responded, "Please pass the sweet and sour shrimp", despite the fact that the shrimp was sitting on the table directly in front of him.

Many times, the ambassador is even forbidden direct contact with representatives of the country he is in, because of some spat, and the embassy will only receive their "second-tier" diplomats to talk to our second-tier diplomats.

In this case, the ambassador made the deadly mistake of taking sides in a dispute with one country friendly to the US, against another country friendly to the US.

I'm not sure which Bush administration official said this when he took over the job, but it makes the point clear. He called his subordinates into his office, one at a time, then pointed to a world map on the wall and said, "What's your country"

They would respond "Thailand", or "Japan" or whatever.

Then he would say, "No. Your country is the United States. Do not forget that."

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-05-28 12:33|| 2006-05-28 12:33|| Front Page Top

#3 I agree. This is an excellent example of why we do not need to recruit State employees from Ivy League schools - and pay through the nose for their "services". As a promulgator and distributor of the elected President's policies, we could fill State with lobotomized robots and it would work far more effectively in the interests of our country.

/Lobotomy Rights League

Or touch-screen terminals.

/Touch Screen Rights Front

Or a URL.

/hypernerd

Posted by Slolulet Sletch7958 2006-05-28 13:00|| 2006-05-28 13:00|| Front Page Top

#4 Under no circumstances do you want an ambassador who says what he thinks and believes.

I call BS in this case. The ambassador was stating objective reality. Have we gone so far into dhimmitude that we're not allowed to tell the truth?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-05-28 13:30|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-05-28 13:30|| Front Page Top

#5 Whoa boys, hold on there just a second. All the details in the story don't quite add up to the conclusion.

For starters, the link details the protest letter which was dated 5/23/2006, while the original comments were specified as made in February 2005.

First question - how is the imminent recall based on the comments from 15 months ago? Maybe a few more factual details would help before we get into the deep weeds of ill intent.

Second - there don't seem to be too many direct quotes from the parties, and a whole bunch of double and triple hearsay. Let's try making a passing effort at evidentiary reliability.

All that said, the Turks do need to acknowledge reality, in this, and several other areas.

Posted by Ebbogum Sheresh6836 2006-05-28 13:46|| 2006-05-28 13:46|| Front Page Top

#6 Since I literally believe the State Dept should be disbanded and a simple URL passed around instead, I must admit I'm torn between my natural state of total smartass - and asking how this is really dhimmitude... Ah, well, it's immaterial in the final analysis.

RC - I believe we end up at the same place when I say that we should pull no punches regards US policy - and the reality of history - on our website. History needs far less "explanation" than the nuance bitches suggest, IMVHO. And we need no State Dept assholes to smooth away / nuance US policy. This is how it is, Mr Foreigner. We already know you don't give a rat-fuck about the truth, so we don't care if you "like" it or not. Thank you for your inquiry. Your IP block has been logged.

State belongs in the same dustbin as the UN.

Posted by Slolulet Sletch7958 2006-05-28 13:52|| 2006-05-28 13:52|| Front Page Top

#7 We need a State Department. We need an effective one.

Moose is absolutely right: the ambassador is our representative to that country. He/she doesn't make policy. Ambassadors gather information from the host country and disseminate our official position to that country.

ES 6836 has a point; we need to know what happened. Assuming the facts stated to be true, If I were President (not going to happen) and an ambassador of mine did this, he/she would be on the next plane home. If a political appointee, he/she would become the next general port inspector for Omaha, and if a career diplomat, he/she would become my assistant 6th liasion officer in Zim-Bob-We (can't think of a better punishment).

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2006-05-28 14:09|| 2006-05-28 14:09|| Front Page Top

#8 So the US ambassador to Germany can't refer to the Holocaust cause we're friendly with Germany. The ambassador to Cambodia can't refer to the Cambodian genocide. The ambassador to Rwanda (or more to the point Bolton in the UN) can't refer to the genocide in Rwanda. And G*d forbid, no one should say anything about Darfur.

Sorry, perhaps I just don't get diplomacy. I fail to see anything wrong with calling evil; 'Evil'. And as for our 'friends' in Turkey - when we needed them in 2003 they told us to FOAD. As far as I'm concerned, they're not our 'friends' and not our 'allies'. If they need anything, they should get it from their 'pals' in Paris. And lots of luck with that.

Posted by DMFD 2006-05-28 14:22|| 2006-05-28 14:22|| Front Page Top

#9 LOL. Gathers information. Good one. Definitely worth the expense and resources. LOL.

Look at the function. Look at the effectiveness. Look at the ROI. Look at the alternatives. More efficient means are all over the place.

You're too nice a guy, Steve White :) I once felt the same way and then realized, watching State torpedo Bush in his frist term, that I'd either been born about a century too late or I needed to rethink the "whole thing". Don't get me wrong - I admire those who've managed to avoid cynicism and remember the original intent of such things as diplomats and ambassadors. My grandfather, the best example of a rock-solid American I ever knew, would've agreed with you. But that was then - every institution and every function thereof should be constantly re-evaluated and, where superceded by events and innovation, revamped or abandoned. Nostalgia is a luxury. The State Dept is at least 50 years out of date, not to mention a nest of seditious vipers hell-bent on imposing their LLL agenda. Who says we need it, as constituted? Who says we need Ivy League Moonbats to staff it? Who says it can't be replaced with something better? You didn't make much of a case, in fact, just asserted Conventional Wisdom. I happen to thoroughly disagree, heh. But you're a Good Guy, so I hope I was civil enough in doing so, as no offense is intended, just the challenge to that CW.

Peace. Thru superior technology and firepower. :)

Posted by Slolulet Sletch7958 2006-05-28 14:32|| 2006-05-28 14:32|| Front Page Top

#10 recalls of the vastly underappreciated George Schultz:

He had a big globe in his office and he would bring Ambassadors in before they went out on assignment, take a photo with the Secretary of State so that you could put it up on your wall and pretend that you were his oldest, closest friend, and he would ask the Ambassador turn the globe to your country. And he told us he went through about 25 State Department Foreign Service Officers and political appointees until he finally came to Mike Mansfield who by that time, had already been serving for President Carter as Ambassador to Japan, and the former distinguished Democratic Senate Majority Leader came to see Shultz. Shultz said, you know, Mike, we haven't taken a picture in front of my big stand-up globe. Let's do it, and turn the globe to your country. And Senator Mansfield, Ambassador Mansfield, turned it to the United States. Shultz always told that story to remind us that we were America's Ambassadors to those countries and not the other way around.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-05-28 14:45|| 2006-05-28 14:45|| Front Page Top

#11 Wolfowitz didn't start that last comment as it should have

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-05-28 14:47|| 2006-05-28 14:47|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm halfway reminded that diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a rock.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-05-28 14:50|| 2006-05-28 14:50|| Front Page Top

#13 Amb Evans official biog at:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/35634.htm

Posted by mhw 2006-05-28 14:52|| 2006-05-28 14:52|| Front Page Top

#14 A Skull and Bones guy, LOL.

Posted by Slolulet Sletch7958 2006-05-28 15:02|| 2006-05-28 15:02|| Front Page Top

#15 I think we can do with out a State Department as long as we have no go areas for Caucasians in Washington D.C. and many US urban areas. Send the state department appointees and workers there to teach in the schools and provide city services. If foreign nations need to talk with us let them come here.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-05-28 18:30|| 2006-05-28 18:30|| Front Page Top

#16 This is how it is, Mr Foreigner. We already know you don't give a rat-fuck about the truth, so we don't care if you "like" it or not. Thank you for your inquiry. Your IP block has been logged.

I must be slow again today. I don't understand that bit at all.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-05-28 20:40|| 2006-05-28 20:40|| Front Page Top

#17 trailing wife (interesting name!) I presume you understood that I suggested we need no "State Dept" per se, staffed and housed all over the world, and those who wish to know the interests and policies of the US could visit a website for such information. In light of that assertion, does the part that you referred to still elude you?

We presume they can read. We can present the information in any requested language. We know that the truth is often an elusive thing with some societies and governments cleansing and revising it to suit themselves - and expecting others to operate within their chosen fantasy version. Much of what State does is play this game. On the pages of the website, we eliminate it. We present the US policy and back it up with history as needed or requested, but not spun to anyone else's tune. And they can take it or leave it.

Better? :) Apologies for the imprecision.

Posted by Slolulet Sletch7958 2006-05-28 22:30|| 2006-05-28 22:30|| Front Page Top

#18 Here in Aus the US Ambassadors position was vacant for 14 months 'till March of this year. No-one noticed 'till it was pointed out.
Most people regard the position as a sinecure for political services rendered.

Posted by tipper 2006-05-28 23:16|| 2006-05-28 23:16|| Front Page Top

#19 Agree, tipper. I've only found embassies and consulates useful for getting additional pages added to my passport and for applications for absentee ballots.

Posted by Slolulet Sletch7958 2006-05-28 23:43|| 2006-05-28 23:43|| Front Page Top

00:00 USN Ret.
23:43 Slolulet Sletch7958
23:34 Zhang Fei
23:29 DMFD
23:23 SOP35/Rat
23:22 DMFD
23:16 tipper
23:14 gromgoru
23:11 gromgoru
23:03 Scooter McGruder
22:34 mojo
22:30 Slolulet Sletch7958
22:27 mojo
22:17 Redneck Jim
22:11 Slolulet Sletch7958
21:58 DarthVader
21:56 Redneck Jim
21:49 gromgoru
21:43 3dc
21:38 AuburnTom
21:36 Lone Ranger
21:29 trailing wife
21:17 Sock Puppet of Doom
21:17 Robert Crawford