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2009-06-03 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-06-03 05:35|| || Front Page|| [11130 views ] Top

#1 Grom, I hate to break this to you, but China isn't known for playing to inside straights. There isn't really any good reason for China to adopt Israel as a client if they aren't going to be a conduit for American military technology, and a shift from one axis to the other will bring that one to an end. China tends to diplomatically invest in resource-rich client states, anyways, and Israel's main resource is what, sand? People & social capital, maybe. I don't think Israel's technical schools are competitive with American engineer-mills, are they? Not on a scale which would interest the Chinese.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2009-06-03 08:47|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2009-06-03 08:47|| Front Page Top

#2 Mitch, dear boy, I hate to break this to you, but Israel has never been a conduit of "American military technology" to China---American companies and individuals took care of that quite adequately.

That Israel can provide China with is
(1) Original R&D, which so far been going to USA at cost.
(2) Opportunity to stick a stick in America's eye (sorry about that, but we're not going to commit national suicide because you people wanted an "African American" president).
(3) Not nuking China's oil supplies (not nuking Persian Gulf's oil fields has been the cornerstone of Israel-USA relation for 40 years. Too bad you had to elect a chief executive who'd like them nuked in order to green you up).

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-06-03 09:03|| 2009-06-03 09:03|| Front Page Top

#3 What goes around comes around, g(r)omgoru. Screwing the people of the US by selling the Chinese technology will eventually hurt you as much, if not more, that it hurts us.

What we don't understand is why you don't just push Obama around like all of the other leaders do. Surely your players can find what makes the very few key Obama Administration players tick and get them to rethink a few of their not so helpful ideas. It's a small crowd despite their noisy minions. I'm not sure why you would get joy in putting the stick in the eyes of the millions who who have supported Israel through out the years. If the USA is one day defeated, those who cheered on our way down will suddenly find the vacuum created to be a very cold place.

Posted by Jumbo Slinerong5015 2009-06-03 09:38|| 2009-06-03 09:38|| Front Page Top

#4 What goes around comes around, g(r)omgoru. Screwing the people of the US by selling the Chinese technology will eventually hurt you as much, if not more, that it hurts us.

It's the other way around, genius.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-06-03 09:40|| 2009-06-03 09:40|| Front Page Top

#5 Obama isn't the only enemy of Israel. I heard former CIA (Bin Laden unit) Michael Scheurer spouting off on the tube saying we need to live with a nuclear Iran and tell Israel to back off any plans to attack them. He said America's biggest mistake in foreign policy over the years was supporting Israel, putting ourselves in the middle of the ME's religious wars. His anti-Semitism has blinded him to the point he's now anti-American. No wonder he failed in finding OBL.

Posted by Lumpy Elmoluck5091 2009-06-03 09:44|| 2009-06-03 09:44|| Front Page Top

#6 Mitch, dear boy, I hate to break this to you, but Israel has never been a conduit of "American military technology" to China---American companies and individuals took care of that quite adequately.

I have seen statements from a person I trust that technology they created _for Israel_ wound up in China thanks to Israel's decisions and not theirs.

That Israel can provide China with is
(1) Original R&D, which so far been going to USA at cost.

The way you say it, you'd think Israel has been funding the US instead of the other way around.

The fact is, we've funded you, and your military, and you wasted it with your obsession with turning Lebanon over to Syria.

(2) Opportunity to stick a stick in America's eye (sorry about that, but we're not going to commit national suicide because you people wanted an "African American" president).

I didn't vote for the son of a bitch.

That said... your belief in the need of collective punishment of those 'not you' has made Israel significantly less safe over the years.

Fighting Islamofascism by letting Syria have Lebanon as a proxy launching pad for artillery rockets looks like it's working about as well as Russia's attempt to fight fascism by selling Poland to the Nazis.

(3) Not nuking China's oil supplies (not nuking Persian Gulf's oil fields has been the cornerstone of Israel-USA relation for 40 years. Too bad you had to elect a chief executive who'd like them nuked in order to green you up).

Will China still have a use for you after you've gone ahead and nuked said oilfields?

The threat hasn't stopped them from giving the bomb to Pakistan and North Korea, both of which have gone on to share their technology with Iran.

It hasn't been deterring them today, but you think it'll deter them after the oilfields are gone and not coming back?

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-03 10:03|| 2009-06-03 10:03|| Front Page Top

#7 I believe Scheurer's point is simply something should have been done long, long ago (read that the Carter years) and that we are now reaping the rewards of our Euro friends and their nuclear tech sales to Iran, Russian assistance, etc. His point about out involvement in religious conflicts taking back thousands of years is well taken. Everyone who fails, for whatever reason, to support Irael over any given issue should not be labled anti-Semitic.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-06-03 10:05|| 2009-06-03 10:05|| Front Page Top

#8 The one who sold the Chinese the latest arm technology was not Israel but our former President Bill Clinton.
Please stop your insane anti-Semitism

Posted by Ana">Ana 2009-06-03 10:20|| 2009-06-03 10:20|| Front Page Top

#9 Believe what you wish snowy---you going to anyway: facts only work on these who respect them. Just don't ask "why did we get Obama?".

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-06-03 10:23|| 2009-06-03 10:23|| Front Page Top

#10 But tell me G(r)om, why have so many in the American Jewish community supported this empty suit?

Posted by Besoeker 2009-06-03 10:31|| 2009-06-03 10:31|| Front Page Top

#11 But tell me G(r)om, why have so many in the American Jewish community supported this empty suit?

Why did so many Greman Jews thought of themselves as "Germans of Mosaic Faith", Visitor?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-06-03 10:38|| 2009-06-03 10:38|| Front Page Top

#12 I find it "interesting" that people who harp on US aid to Israel never seem to have any problems with US aid to, say, Egypt/North Korea/Palestinians/Pakistan/etc.

Wonder why that is, hmmm???

Posted by Scooter McGruder 2009-06-03 10:49|| 2009-06-03 10:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Besoeker
Your question "But tell me G(r)om, why have so many in the American Jewish community supported this empty suit?"
The answer may lay somewhere between "buyer beware" and "s%^& happens" Too bad Obama can't be returned to the store like a cheap suit.

Posted by GirlThursday 2009-06-03 11:03|| 2009-06-03 11:03|| Front Page Top

#14 I find it "interesting" that people who harp on US aid to Israel never seem to have any problems with US aid to, say, Egypt/North Korea/Palestinians/Pakistan/etc.

When Egyptians start posting in these threads about how much they're going to undermine and punish those of us who in the past have supported aid to Israel, I'll start bitching in these threads about them.

Currently, the only person posting about the need for actions that will undermine and cut off at the knees everyone who's ever been a member of the "let's support Israel" faction isn't an Egyptian, or a Palestinian, or a North Korean.

It's an Israeli.

Or at least someone pretending to be one.

I dunno, maybe he's a Palestinian or North Korean agent provocateur?

(They're gonna get a better deal from the guys who gave Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran bomb technology through various middlemen than from the US?)

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-03 11:10|| 2009-06-03 11:10|| Front Page Top

#15 Currently, the only person posting about the need for actions that will undermine and cut off at the knees everyone who's ever been a member of the "let's support Israel" faction isn't an Egyptian, or a Palestinian, or a North Korean.

Oh, and btw, we don't have a president who's going to ignore this sort of thing anymore in the interests of better relations. We have one that's going to use this sort of junk to twist the knife in whoever he can.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-03 11:15|| 2009-06-03 11:15|| Front Page Top

#16 What goes around comes around, g(r)omgoru. Screwing the people of the US by selling the Chinese technology will eventually hurt you as much, if not more, that it hurts us.

Maybe your are right. Your glee in the matter does you no credit. Why should I give a *&*^ about your country when you are so quick to sell me down the river?

Posted by Jumbo Slinerong5015 2009-06-03 11:29|| 2009-06-03 11:29|| Front Page Top

#17 but we're not going to commit national suicide because you people wanted an "African American" president

I'd say we have that pretty well covered ourselves, thanks.

Posted by SteveS 2009-06-03 11:38|| 2009-06-03 11:38|| Front Page Top

#18 There's a difference between handling a country to keep it from "nuking the oil fields" and being an ally. China's interested in clients who can *give them something*. Threatening to *take something* from their client states isn't exactly a beaten road to the diplomatic heart. That approach, frankly, puts Israel on a plane with Indonesian pirates. It's crap like that which has brought a Chinese flotilla into the Gulf of Aden.

China can find technological & research assets elsewhere with less baggage. They'd be fools to buy into Israel's coming gotterdammerung.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2009-06-03 11:49|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2009-06-03 11:49|| Front Page Top

#19 You people have a bit of a problem---unability to jetison cultural baggage that you've acquired in the last 2000 years. Too bad, I remember then USA had some promise.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-06-03 12:42|| 2009-06-03 12:42|| Front Page Top

#20 And I remember when the USA prevented the final solution from seeing its completion.

Posted by spiffo 2009-06-03 13:27|| 2009-06-03 13:27|| Front Page Top

#21 fwiw, it is certainly true that Israel sells the PRC military stuff

However, Israel has always backed off when the USA told it to (for example, the Phalcon in the early 90s).

The PRC also gets weapons from all over the place. Russia has provided quite a bit. Even Canada has provided some. However, the PRC makes most of its own stuff now and is not dependent on anyone (especially on the quantity side of things).

Posted by Lord garth 2009-06-03 13:46|| 2009-06-03 13:46|| Front Page Top

#22 I think the lack of outrage is explained, IMO, by the fact that most of American Judaism doesn't care about Israel. Well, they care, but more in an abstract sense.
Given a choice between a lean towards their idea of a liberal social agenda and the integrity of a Jewish state, most (not all) pick the former.
Look at the last two elections. W. Bush was probably the BEST president ever for Israel, and he got, what 20% of the vote?

/Not Jewish
//Methodist, actually
///Spent some quality time as a goy toy

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2009-06-03 14:37|| 2009-06-03 14:37|| Front Page Top

#23 My take on it as well Mizzou. Loads and loads of chatter, sobbing, and wringing of hands about Bernie Madoff losses.

Israel.... not so much.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-06-03 14:45|| 2009-06-03 14:45|| Front Page Top

#24 Believe what you wish snowy---you going to anyway: facts only work on these who respect them. Just don't ask "why did we get Obama?".

You seem to be implying that I and those like me are responsible for Obama's election. I'd like to hear the detailed bullpuckey rationalization behind that, but you'll probably just giggle and walk off, if past stuff is any indication.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-03 16:03|| 2009-06-03 16:03|| Front Page Top

#25 grom, you get real testy anytime someone here does not toe your preferred line all the way. Your Chinese threat is utter BS, and you know it. Stop. Take a deep breath, and realize that the posters on this forum are some of Israel's most ardent supporters, regardless of those poster's religions. And most of us will continue to be supporters despite your ridiculous attitude.

Posted by remoteman 2009-06-03 16:15|| 2009-06-03 16:15|| Front Page Top

#26 Bottom line is I like Benji better than Barry.

Posted by Harry Thrumble8527 2009-06-03 16:27|| 2009-06-03 16:27|| Front Page Top

#27 Grom is being an idiot or he is kidding, yes?

He is the sort that would put a gun to his own head to spite others by splashing his brains on them.

Posted by Lagom 2009-06-03 16:29|| 2009-06-03 16:29|| Front Page Top

#28 Let's keep the G(r)omster on board please. When he stops posting, I suspect he's been mobilized and the gig is soon up for Iran.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-06-03 16:41|| 2009-06-03 16:41|| Front Page Top

#29 "When he stops posting, I suspect he's been mobilized and the gig is soon up for Iran."

What's the downside, B? (Other than missing grom for a while, I mean.)

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-06-03 17:41|| 2009-06-03 17:41|| Front Page Top

#30 Lagom has got it. Grom has gone all Blazing Saddles.

Posted by ed 2009-06-03 18:38|| 2009-06-03 18:38|| Front Page Top

#31 "gone Blazing Saddles"...

LOL! I'll have to remember that one. I have a feeling it will be applicable to a lot of situations given the boneheads we have in Congress and the imbeciles we have running the executive branch.

Great movie scene.

Posted by OldSpook 2009-06-03 23:36|| 2009-06-03 23:36|| Front Page Top

23:58 Richard of Oregon
23:41 OldSpook
23:40 OldSpook
23:39 trailing wife
23:38 European Conservative
23:37 trailing wife
23:36 OldSpook
23:35 KBK
23:33 49 Pan
23:29 trailing wife
23:29 European Conservative
23:27 European Conservative
23:20 Barbara Skolaut
23:03 ed
22:59 ed
22:32 DMFD
22:27 Eric Jablow
22:21 JosephMendiola
22:18 DMFD
22:17 JosephMendiola
22:11 JosephMendiola
22:08 DMFD
22:06 JosephMendiola
22:01 ed