Article

2004-06-10 Iraq-Jordan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by TS(vice girl) 2004-06-10 1:08:54 PM|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 We ought to help these folks somehow. In the worst-case scenatio let them immigrate to the US. Why does the thought of an Assyrian Orthodox Church in my neighborhood not seem to bother me, but that of a Muslim Tower bellowing five times a day nearby does?

Posted by BigEd 2004-06-10 1:26:33 PM|| 2004-06-10 1:26:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 This is the saddest thing I have read lately.

Doesn't it go to show that there is no freedom for anyone else if Muslims have full freedom of religion????

More and more, although I do hate to say it, I am beginning to think that it would be best to encourage Muslims to leave this country. Somehow we have to get them to want to go back to their messed up countries. Pay them if we have to. The more freedom they have, the less we have. They cannot live with other peoples.

Posted by peggy 2004-06-10 1:45:19 PM|| 2004-06-10 1:45:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 I'm with you, Ed. Reduce the quotas of Muslim immigrants to this country and make room for Assyrian Christian immigrants instead.

Why is Islam the official religion in Iraq...huh? I thought Iraq was supposed to be a pluralistic tolerant society? This is a nasty bit of news to JQ Taxpayer Public ie. that we are supporting a monotheistic Iraq.

Posted by rex 2004-06-10 1:50:37 PM|| 2004-06-10 1:50:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 You know, peggy, we have to walk a fine line here. We dont want to come off like the Germans in the 20's and 30's in re: the Jews. But, having said that, and reading articles elsewhere on RB tody in regards to England, Canada, and the harassment of Brigite Bardot by the Frog government, it seems this is more and more rational. The difference is that the Jews were integral part of German society, and had no desires to force Judiasm on Germany as a whole. It was distortions of a megalomaniac in times where mass-communication was in its infancy that lubricated the wheels of the racist engine that Germany became. It hurts to say it, because, at heart, my politics are more Libertatian than classically Conservative. I don't wish anyone ill who does not wish me ill, but if the thuggery as examplified in the British and Canadian examples aren't reversed in a hurry, I am coming to your unfortunate conclusion.

Posted by BigEd 2004-06-10 1:54:31 PM|| 2004-06-10 1:54:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 To be cruelly realistic, how many Christians live in Iraq? Compared with how many indifferent Moslems? Note, I *didn't* say "fanatical" Moslems, just those who wouldn't particularly care if a tiny minority was persecuted by a few hundred fanatics.

Relatively speaking, if a single white family wanted to live in Harlem, NY, surrounded by a mile radius of black families, would they have a chance? (And I don't mean Bill Clinton.) Could the entire NYC police department protect them?

How can you demand that all Harlem let that one family live in peace, and just because they are white?

The tragedy of homogeneity is that purging outsiders is easy.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-06-10 2:33:35 PM|| 2004-06-10 2:33:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Anonymoose, you've obviously not been to Harlem in a long time because there are plenty of white families moving up there surrounded by black families and everyone's getting along great.

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-06-10 2:50:33 PM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-06-10 2:50:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Muslims, by the very structure of their religion and their society, are not willing to assimilate with infidel cultures. The West, not just the US, but the entire body of Western civilization should expel these people from our body politic. They are an infection that cannot be overcome by our immune system. They are muslims who happen to be living in Western lands, but have no interest in or intention of ever becoming integral parts of our culture or society.

America was built by people from many lands and cultures. These people had one common desire, to become Americans. To do that, they assimilated into the American culture and accepted the common beliefs, goals, language and laws. People who are unwilling to learn English, who refuse to acknowledge the primacy of our laws (in favor of Sharia, etc.). who think that the rights and practices of the majority should be circumscribed so as not to offend their sensibilities should be escorted to the nearest border and shoved across at bayonet point. That doesn't include all muslims, but my guess is it includes most of them.

Posted by RWV 2004-06-10 2:50:56 PM|| 2004-06-10 2:50:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 As to Iraq, I am appalled that their interim constitution establishes a State Religion and does not guarantee religious freedom. I'm not sure that I like the idea of my Marine son risking his life for people who think this way. Unless this is corrected in the final version of the Iraqi constitution, we owe the Iraqi christians asylum.

Christians are persecuted worldwide (some would say even in California), but this is a special case. The US is aiding and abetting in their persecution by allowing the establishment of an Islamic state. We owe these people asylum or their blood is on our hands. I'm sure that the ACLU and friends will adamantly oppose granting asylum to Christians, but that's another fight.

Posted by RWV 2004-06-10 2:58:40 PM|| 2004-06-10 2:58:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 RWV - Maybe we can escort the quisling ACLU attorneys to the border at the same time we escort the unrepentent Muslims? Save time and an extra trip.

Posted by BigEd 2004-06-10 3:05:27 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:05:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 "We thought the Americans were going to bring us freedom and democracy,"

Well, we brought as much as we could shoe-horn into your fucked up, dictator-ridden middle-eastern shitbag of a country. Now it's up to you - and running away ain't gonna help.

Me? I'd start assisting the more whacked-out muslim clerics to enter paradise.

Just a thought.

Posted by mojo 2004-06-10 3:09:01 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:09:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 mojo, to ask such a task of one man is unreasonable. But truthbetold, this DOES bother me to say the least ... I wonder what the permanent Constitution will say?

(Note to future presidents: Never let a State man near anything worth a damn. Jay Garner should have stayed!)

Posted by Edward Yee 2004-06-10 3:11:41 PM|| [http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2004-06-10 3:11:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 If the new Iraq doesn't include religious tolerance, we've substantially failed.

Posted by someone 2004-06-10 3:16:02 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:16:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Mind you, I think the reporting here should be taken with a grain of salt. We did fight the locals -- and force compromise -- on Islam's official role in the interim constitution here.

Posted by someone 2004-06-10 3:18:50 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:18:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 "We thought the Americans were going to bring us freedom and democracy . . ."
Yeah. We did too.

"Instead, they are promoting Islam."
That completely sucks.

"We do not understand it. "
Neither do I.

"... We love the Americans!"
Are these the only people in the Middle East besides the Kurds and the Israelis who like us? Maybe we figure out who our friends are over there and team up with the good guys.

"We are so grateful for them removing Saddam and giving us back our freedom."
At least somebody over there appreciates the sacrifice.

"We do not want their effort to be a failure if the dictatorship of Saddam is replaced by the dictatorship of Islam."
No shit.

"The American-funded TV station, Al Iraqia, broadcasts Muslim programs four times every day and for two hours each Friday but nothing for the other religions.
WTF?!

"The recent inauguration of the new government was opened by a Muslim mullah reciting a long passage and a prayer from the Quran, but none of our priests were invited."
Courtesy of the good ol' USA.

"Why do they do this? Why do the Americans promote Muslims?"
Because we're stupid.

"They need to promote equality and democracy and freedom, not Muslim dictatorship."
Right on. (Unless we want to exchange one dictator for thousands of itty-bitty dictators called mullahs.)

"What happened to the American promise to help [Iraq] become a democracy that would be a place for all to live?"
Yeah--what happened?

"This is our homeland! We are the original people of Iraq! We should not have to leave."

. . . America fights for the Islamoturds, creating another bullshit state for the most abusive people in the world--the followers of Islam--that wonderful Religion of Peace.

from RWV: "I'm not sure that I like the idea of my Marine son risking his life for people (Islamic people) who think this way. "
Well. That IS the point now, isn't it.

"People who are unwilling to learn English, who refuse to acknowledge the primacy of our laws (in favor of Sharia, etc.). who think that the rights and practices of the majority should be circumscribed so as not to offend their sensibilities should be escorted to the nearest border and shoved across at bayonet point."

I agree. Fuck these bastards. Just look at what they're doing to the Assyrian church (and all over the world, too). They'd love to do it here if they can. And 911 proved they can.

If people don't get with it soon, and see this for what it is, we're all going to be sorry.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-06-10 3:28:50 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:28:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I agree with you, #11. To suggest that the small group of Christians should stay a fight the Muslims in Iraq is unreasonable. If that's we'd expect of them, then we should halt ALL immigration, and just tell ALL immigrants, not just Iraqi Christians, to fight for their rights in their birth country and stop running away from the problem.

As for Garner over Bremer, #11, exactly what I think. Garner would not have screwed the Kurds, that's for sure, and I'll bet he wouldn't have rubber stamped an Islam official religion for Iraq thingey. Path of least resistence - that's State Dept.'s signature approach.

As for interim positioning of Islam in the temporary constitution, [whatever] all bets are off once the election is held, #13, and the majority Shiite population win. The Shiite reps on the interim council have said as much to the Kurds already.

Thank you, #8, for your son's service.

Posted by rex 2004-06-10 3:33:07 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:33:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 mojo: "running away ain't gonna help"

Don't be an idiot. Sure the minorities could arm for civil war--but don't you think they're just a tad bit outnumbered?

Armchair politics don't cut it when stuff like this is happening to people's families--kids, daughters, wives. The Iraqi Islmofascists are doing what Islamofascists everywhere do. It's just sickening that we're assisting with it.

Hope someone is right about forcing "compromise" on the Islamics, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think they know too much about "compromising."

Posted by ex-lib 2004-06-10 3:36:16 PM|| 2004-06-10 3:36:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Yes, they're outnumbered. That's whay they shouldn't start an open civil war. But a careful, covert weeding of the nastier muslim clerics, done properly, could have the Christians sitting pretty with no evidence of treachery...

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

Posted by mojo 2004-06-10 4:23:27 PM|| 2004-06-10 4:23:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Big Ed,

I am just as concerened as you about walking that fine line. What I am thinking is along the lines of holding the line in keeping Islam as private a faith as any other in this country (no special accomodations), while working to encourage re-patriation in every way possible. One way is to fight to clean up the middle east enough that people will want to return which we are already doing. Another way is to pay Muslims to leave which is something I say we should give some serious thought.

Now if I so much as smell some draconian, opressive and racist law against Muslims ala the Nazi's, I'll be the first to cry foul. But I believe that there is always a creative way to protect and defend our way of life without having to resort to force, legal or otherwise. We need to be strategizing how to do it as of right now.

Posted by peggy 2004-06-10 5:47:12 PM|| 2004-06-10 5:47:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Peggy, the last time anyone paid people to leave the US, we wound up with Liberia - not a good precedent. The problem is two-fold: First, we have a tremendous number of people who are in this country illegally. Regardless of what the apologists say, these people need to be sought out, rounded up and expeditiously deported and the borders sealed to prevent reentry. This is not ethnic cleansing, it's just enforcing our laws and respect for the laws. The US is one of the very few civilized countries with de facto open borders.

Second, the US education system needs to once again teach the things that form the core of American culture: the history and values of the American people, American laws and the traditions upon which they are based, and how the American government is supposed to work. It's very hard to keep America as the world's best hope when her own people don't know who they are and why things are the way they are. America is built around the Constitution. Our soul may be in the Declaration of Independence, but our nation is in the Constitution. The schools teach neither. And very simply, anyone who doesn't believe in the values and freedoms outlined in the Constitution shouldn't be in the club. You can try to amend the Constitution in certain areas, but if you don't want to live by its rules, you should move someplace more to your liking.

Posted by RWV 2004-06-10 6:33:36 PM|| 2004-06-10 6:33:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 But a careful, covert weeding of the nastier muslim clerics, done properly, could have the Christians sitting pretty with no evidence of treachery...

After all, everyone just *knows* you need solid evidence in order to start a pogrom.

Poisoning the wells, anyone?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-06-10 7:14:16 PM|| 2004-06-10 7:14:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 More and more, although I do hate to say it, I am beginning to think that it would be best to encourage Muslims to leave this country. Somehow we have to get them to want to go back to their messed up countries. Pay them if we have to. The more freedom they have, the less we have. They cannot live with other peoples.

Well..I don't have a problem saying it! In fact, I've been saying it long before 9/11. Muslims (all of them) have got to go! The sooner, the better.

Posted by VinceW 2004-06-10 9:30:44 PM|| 2004-06-10 9:30:44 PM|| Front Page Top

01:57 Mark Espinola
01:22 Silentbrick
01:19 Mark Espinola
08:19 Howard UK
07:57 Mitch H.
04:18 Howard UK
00:39 Super Hose
00:24 Super Hose
23:56 painterdave
23:47 Rafael
23:35 OldSpook
23:32 Alaska Paul
23:32 Infidel Bob
23:26 Alaska Paul
23:18 RWV
23:09 RWV
23:05 Zenster
23:00 RWV
22:55 Mike Sylwester
22:52 Mike Sylwester
22:51 RWV
22:49 Bomb-a-rama
22:46 Alaska Paul
22:41 tu3031