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2005-06-18 Home Front: Tech

Rice Prods Israelis To Curb Technology Transfers To China

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Posted by Spavirt Pheng6042 2005-06-18 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11140 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I sell prods, Dr Rice. Really effective ones, guaranteed to get that certain someone's attention and hold it - for at least 5 minutes. Think of it as being spellbound. Trust me, 775,000 volts will do wonders in adjusting "recalcitrant" attitudes. For you, Dr Rice, I'll cut a special deal. Drop by my site and leave me a note. Free shipping and a money-back guarantee.

Posted by .com 2005-06-18 01:23|| 2005-06-18 01:23|| Front Page Top

#2 May need industrial strength prods to remove that Harpy Killer drones look.

Posted by Captain America 2005-06-18 02:38|| 2005-06-18 02:38|| Front Page Top

#3 Well, industrial-grade cattle prods could really improve my social live, interaction with others, and possibly sexual activity (if it can paralyze a dog-sized-or-above mammal just long enough)! Where's your site? Don't be afraid of the shameless plug.

Posted by anonymous5089 2005-06-18 09:53|| 2005-06-18 09:53|| Front Page Top

#4 LOL 5089!

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 10:42|| 2005-06-18 10:42|| Front Page Top

#5 "I would hope that our Israeli friends would understand..."

Report: US putting together $3b. aid package to PA

Rice warns Israel not to 'create facts on ground'

Posted by gromgoru 2005-06-18 11:11|| 2005-06-18 11:11|| Front Page Top

#6 From StrategyPage:
June 17, 2005: Israel has agreed to keep the United States informed of all arms sales to China. This includes âdual useâ technology (like electronics that can be used for military, as well as civilian, purposes.) Israel has long been suspected of playing fast and loose with selling military gear containing American technology. Israel has been allowed to license this technology to make their own weapons. But to sell Israeli weapons containing this American tech, they needed permission from the United States. The weapon sale that really got the United States steamed was the Chinese purchase of the Israeli Harpy anti-radar system. The Harpy is a small, pilotless, propeller driven aircraft that can stay in the air for six hours, travel as far as 500 kilometers, and search for enemy radars, and destroy them. Harpy weighs 300 pounds, and carries a 40 pound warhead. Israel has already sold Harpy to India, South Korea and Turkey. The United States feared that China would use the electronics, that allow Harpy to find and attack targets, to develop a more powerful version that could, for example, go after American AWACS aircraft. The Harpy technology could also be used to improve Chinese UAVs in general. The Chinese are notorious for taking components of foreign weapons they have bought, and incorporating these parts in new, more powerful weapons. Sometimes the Chinese have permission to use this foreign technology, sometimes they donât. The United States cannot buy, or use, the Harpy because, technically, it is a ground launched cruise missile with a range that violates the SALT I treaty. The U.S. could buy air or sea launched versions of Harpy and not violate SALT I.

Posted by ed 2005-06-18 11:23|| 2005-06-18 11:23|| Front Page Top

#7 We're talking about spilled milk and a whole bunch of milk at that. How are "warnings" going to rectify the situation or make consequences be felt? Israel got its $ from China and China got the tech it needs to fight a better war against the US and the USA has been screwed every which way by its "good" trading partner and by its "good" ally.

I say cut off all aid and freebie loans to Israel for 6 months. And if Israel has not figured out a way to compromise the tech it sold to China, then cut off Israel's aid permanently. Maybe Israel is looking for a new deep pockets benefactor - I'm sure China will love funding Israel to the tune it has come to expect from Uncle Sam (NOT).

As for the #5 post with article links - Rice is telling Israel what it needs to hear. a. The world is not stupid about ye old trick of creating facts on the ground. It won't work and it makes Israel look cheezy. b. Israel needs to accept the fact that all nations, including the USA, want the 2 state nation formula (Israel and Palestine)to be set up. It may not seem fair to some Israelis, particularly the settlers and the Likud Party) and it may seem risky security wise, but that's what is going to happen and Israel better get with the program or it will risk losing the support of its most valuable ally, the USA. I don't think it can count on its new found pal,China, covering its back for longer than 2 seconds. Being at war 24/7 is nuts for Israel. At least the 2 nation state offers hope. The Palestinians will continue to blow themselves up until they get their own nation and one that is workable. Giving the Palestinians a good start with $3 Billion aid to build a decent infastructure is the best way to help the Palestinian state get off to a decent start so Palestinians have a future. And it helps Israel if the Palestinians are happy with their apportionment. Btw, the $3 Billion aid package is being put together by Western nations, not just the USA. That's what Israel gets from the USA each year so there's no need to view this as back-stabbing by the USA.

Posted by Thotch Glesing2372 2005-06-18 14:40|| 2005-06-18 14:40|| Front Page Top

#8 Dear Thotch Glesing2372,

US will stick by Israel for the same reasons you did so far.
(a) We are the only ally you have in ME.
(b) We are the sorce of most of the truly innovative high tech you have.

The question is, should Israel stick with US, who is always trying to make Arab friends at our expence and/or treats Israel as a nation of techno-serfs?

Posted by gromgoru 2005-06-18 16:14|| 2005-06-18 16:14|| Front Page Top

#9 US will stick by Israel for the same reasons you did so far.
(a) We are the only ally you have in ME.
(b) We are the sorce of most of the truly innovative high tech you have.
a) it could be said that the reason America doesn't have better alliance with ME Arab countries is BECAUSE the USA is Israel's ally. The USA does not need Israel, but Israel needs the USA.
b) Israeli engineers are not uniquely clever about developing defense technology. If the USA chose to "grow" its own defense engineering talents stateside by doling out to private enterprise the same US taxpayer investments that we give Israel, I have no doubt that our defense industry could deliver. But without US tax investment, would Israeli engineers be as "inspired" or successful?

The question is, should Israel stick with US, who is always trying to make Arab friends at our expence and/or treats Israel as a nation of techno-serfs?
There's some saying about alliances - I forget the exact wording - but it goes something like this: there are no long lived alliances, only countries looking out for their own interests.

Maybe that's what Israel is doing cozy-ing up with the future super power, China, I don't think Israel needed the $.

Then maybe the USA needs to look out for its own interests, which is controlling world oil resources - one can't run factories, planes, cars on simpering rhetoric about "friendships" and Arab states do seem to have endless supplies of "black gold." Hmmm....

I think Israel was once upon a time paired up with communist Soviet Union, wasn't it - maybe communist/socialist mindsets are a more natural fit with its own left wing under pinnings.

If Israel doesn't like to be told what to do by its rich aunt, then by all means, Israel should get off our taxpayer tit and be "independent" and be "self-reliant" and we'll see how long Israel survives holding hands with China.

Posted by Thotch Glesing2372 2005-06-18 17:03|| 2005-06-18 17:03|| Front Page Top

#10 #9.

Best of luck getting along with your Arab friends.

Posted by gromgoru 2005-06-18 17:22|| 2005-06-18 17:22|| Front Page Top

#11 Thotch, Israel will manage with or without American aid -- as it has in the past. You fail to understand that for Israel this is an existential question; that is to say, whether or not Israel will exist. And the moment Israel ceases to exist, your beloved Palestinians and their oil-rich Arab masters will engineer a massacre that will pile Jewish bodies as high as ever the Nazis did. There are 4 million Jewish Israelis, and the Arab world has been working toward their erasure -- not to chase them out, or to rule over them and benefit by their labours -- but to make them cease to exist.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But, understand that were your recommendations followed, it would mean regional genocide. Is that indeed what you want, or would you like to rethink your position?

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-18 19:08|| 2005-06-18 19:08|| Front Page Top

#12 just imagine what egqupt would be like ifn we spent the same money on them that we spent on the zionist entity

Posted by Half 2005-06-18 20:28|| 2005-06-18 20:28|| Front Page Top

#13 trailing wife, you contradict yourself on a few points and also you make assumptions that are incorrect.

You say that Israel could survive without the USA as its benefactor but on the otherhand you imply that if the USA withdrew its aid, it would mean the end of Israel and the blood of 4 Million Israeli deaths would be on America's hands.

Secondly you assume I'm an Arabist and that I'm looking out for "my precious" Palestinians.

Please understand that I'm an American first and foremost and I am loyal only to America. I feel no loyalties to any other nation including Israel. I am not religious whatsoever, so I have no attachment to the Holy Land - it means nothing to me - the Old Testament peoples who exist in the Middle East are simply nations to me.

I say that the 2 separate states (Israel and Palestine ) will happen because it will. That's the way many Israeli politicians thought it should be as well. This process will happen easily or with great difficulty, but make no mistake, it's inevitable. For Sharon and the settlers to try to put obstacles in the way only delays the process and causes ill-will for Israelis in the long run. Rice is giving Israeli leadership some common sense advice.

What choices Israeli leadership make in the way Israel conducts itself as a friend to the USA or whether it back-stabs the USA will determine future support. Israel has control of its own future, and any blood that is spilled, will be a result of Israeli foresight or lack thereof.

And may I remind you that if Arab states are a grave threat to Israel, then China represents America's grave threat. Israel knowingly gave valuable aid to an enemy that may use the technology against our American soldiers in the not too distant future. I believe Israel should suffer some serious consequences for its selfish actions of cozying up to the emerging Super Power on the horizon, significantly more than a tsk, tsk from Rice.

The WWII Holocaust has been used over and over again by Israel to get what she wants from America. Now America faces dangers on many sides, and it's time Israel got over its self-delusion that only her nation is fighting for her existence. Israel brings a lot of bad baggage with it and being its friend causes quite a burden for America. I think it's time that Israel realizes and appreciates what a good friend America has been. And if Israel can't do so and wants to play games with its loyal benefactor, then Israelis should only hold their leadership to blame for any dire consequences they may suffer.

Posted by Thotch Glesing2372 2005-06-18 20:31|| 2005-06-18 20:31|| Front Page Top

#14 If Israel doesn't think Uncle Sam is a worthwhile friend to have, then it should seek alliances elsewhere. Just stop taking our money and stabbing us in the back. Everybody sells weapons to the Arabs. The difference when Uncle Sam sells it is that if Arabs attack Israel, we won't send the Arabs spare parts.

It is in fact in Israel's interest for us to sell weapons to the Arabs. Do you think the French or the Germans would refrain from resupplying the Arabs if Israel were attacked? Another difference between the US selling to the Arabs and Israel selling to China is this - the Arabs can't tie their own shoelaces, and certainly can't reverse engineer the technology - they are completely reliant on Uncle Sam for parts and replacements, whereas the Chinese will gin up their own versions of the stuff and use them to attack Uncle Sam.

I can accept that the USS Liberty incident was an accident. Israel's sales to China, at a time when even the Euros won't do it, are simply beyond the pale. These sales do not make Israel an enemy. But they do mean that Israel has descended to France's level. And we don't sent $2b a year to France - or exercise our veto power at the UN in France's behalf.

Israel needs to grow up and figure out who its friends are. If it thinks that China can both provide Israel a nuclear umbrella and become its new sugar daddy, it is welcome to do so. Uncle Sam can do a world of good to his relations with the Muslim world by cutting Israel off, militarily and financially.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:11|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:11|| Front Page Top

#15 I can accept that the USS Liberty incident was an accident. Israel's sales to China, at a time when even the Euros won't do it, are simply beyond the pale.

:)
It would be like the US selling AWACS to the Magic Kingdom.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:21|| 2005-06-18 21:21|| Front Page Top

#16 Actually, if the US stopped selling weaponry to Israel, its market in the Muslim world would expand in a big way. Why are countries like Malaysia and Indonesia jaundiced against Uncle Sam? Because we support Israel. The fact is that if we stopped selling arms to Israel *and* ended financial aid, Israel would have to come up with its own weaponry from scratch (since neither the Euros nor the Russians will sell anything sensitive to them) and close the financial aid gap, which constitutes close to 20% of Israel's military budget. Without American, European or Russian jets, how is Israel going to retain its air supremacy in the Middle East?

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:21|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:21|| Front Page Top

#17 And if we stopped selling arms to Israel we would feel oh so very much better for being in real politic and extra triple PC. I dig. It's the big picture, LOL!

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:23|| 2005-06-18 21:23|| Front Page Top

#18 Shipman: It would be like the US selling AWACS to the Magic Kingdom.

We fly Saudi Arabia's AWACS planes. The average Saudi has trouble mastering the remote control on a VCR. Do you really think Uncle Sam would permit Saudi Arabia to use these planes to attack Israel? What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from the American in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:25|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:25|| Front Page Top

#19 Maybe if the US stops whoring F-15s to the Saudi entity? LOL Jeez.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:25|| 2005-06-18 21:25|| Front Page Top

#20 Ima damn sectarian ZF, the defense of Richmond is formost to me. AssHole.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:26|| 2005-06-18 21:26|| Front Page Top

#21 "Do not force me to crush your spines with the secret eagle-claw grip that Master Rummy taught me!"

Posted by Elmomoger Cleans8007 2005-06-18 21:26|| 2005-06-18 21:26|| Front Page Top

#22 I find contemptable self made minons of moroninty whoring there shill holes.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:27|| 2005-06-18 21:27|| Front Page Top

#23 Make if long and extra Zenish ZF. I'll be back in awhile :>

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:28|| 2005-06-18 21:28|| Front Page Top

#24 Damn it's tough being a lapsed Baptist.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:30|| 2005-06-18 21:30|| Front Page Top

#25 Shipman: And if we stopped selling arms to Israel we would feel oh so very much better for being in real politic and extra triple PC. I dig. It's the big picture, LOL!

It's got nothing to do with PC and everything to do with being able to compete for the same contracts that we've missed out on because we support Israel. It wouldn't bother me if Muslims were herded into a giant mass grave. But since we're not in that mode yet, we might as well do business with them, since the Israelis are helping the Chinese kill Americans with greater efficiency. If Israel is going to sell to China anything it wants, maybe Uncle Sam should start selling to Muslim terrorist groups (who are angry with Uncle Sam primarily for its support for Israel) and the Muslim world any non-nuclear weaponry they want.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:31|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:31|| Front Page Top

#26 Shipman: Maybe if the US stops whoring F-15s to the Saudi entity? LOL Jeez.

We sell to the Saudis gold-plated toys that they can't use. Maybe if they mastered tying their shoelaces first. Besides, why blame us? The Euros will sell to the Arabs anything they want, but they won't sell the same equipment to Israel, subsidize Israel to the tune of $2b a year or support Israel at the UN.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:35|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:35|| Front Page Top

#27 ZF: What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from the American in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests.

That should have read: What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from American Muslims or Arab Americans in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:37|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:37|| Front Page Top

#28 Um, this thread very suddenly devolved.

Posted by .com 2005-06-18 21:38|| 2005-06-18 21:38|| Front Page Top

#29 What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from American Muslims or Arab Americans in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests

Noted.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:43|| 2005-06-18 21:43|| Front Page Top

#30 Perhaps a few moments of cheap Hooch. However Ima willing to overlook bad manners. Especially since ZF is evidently a god damn yankee mother fucker.

I extend the hand of friendship.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:46|| 2005-06-18 21:46|| Front Page Top

#31 TG2372: The WWII Holocaust has been used over and over again by Israel to get what she wants from America.

Americans did not carry out the Holocaust and are certainly not obligated to make amends. Do you think that if Arabs had wiped out Judaism, that any Muslims would even have felt guilty about it, let alone try to make amends? No - they would have designated a public holiday specifically to celebrate the occasion - a day for handing out candy.

Don't get me wrong - I think Israel not only has the right to exist, the Palestinians really belong in Egypt or Jordan. But when Israel helps a nuclear-armed and potentially the second most powerful country (China) in the world fight Uncle Sam, my sentimental attachments to Israel start to fray.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 21:47|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 21:47|| Front Page Top

#32 We're cool.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-18 21:49|| 2005-06-18 21:49|| Front Page Top

#33 Zhang Fei

But when Israel helps a nuclear-armed and potentially the second most powerful country (China) in the world fight Uncle Sam, my sentimental attachments to Israel start to fray.

Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)

Posted by gromgoru 2005-06-18 22:07|| 2005-06-18 22:07|| Front Page Top

#34 gromguru: Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)

Are Arrow anti-ballistic missiles more sophisticated than the ones Uncle Sam will be selling to India? Note this is a completely separate issue from Israeli sales to China - where Uncle Sam will not sell to the Chinese at all. If the Pentagon is strong-arming Israel in situations where US companies are competing with Israeli ones, then someone in DC needs to have his knuckles rapped - the Pentagon is in charge of national security, not industrial policy. But the China issue stands on its own.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 22:18|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 22:18|| Front Page Top

#35 gromguru: Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)

Note also that Uncle Sam will sell F-16's but not F-15's to India, which tells me that we are selling them relatively old technology.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 22:20|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 22:20|| Front Page Top

#36 gromguru: Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)

Note that Singapore isn't a completely reliable ally. We may want to reassess our commitment to supplying it with F-35's, given its close links to China. My feeling is that any technology we supply to Singapore has a serious chance of leaking to China, given that Singapore has an ethnic Chinese majority of 70% that is being kept up with massive Chinese immigration made up mostly of technical personnel.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 22:49|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 22:49|| Front Page Top

#37 The US has no business funding another nation's weapons development (in the case of Arrow, at least $2 billion worth). If it is important enough for a nation to have a weapons system, let them either develop it themselves (including the critical subsystems) or buy/contract for it. Then the US will have no right to deny transfer of American tech to an enemy, and there will only be political fallout of arming America's (potential) enemies.

Posted by ed 2005-06-18 22:58|| 2005-06-18 22:58|| Front Page Top

#38 By all means drop Israel in preference for weapons contracts to Muslim countries. But don't complain when those same weapons end up being quietly shared with terrorists to use against American troops. Or when fungible funds are used for more madrassahs and training camps around the world.

Oh, and Thotch, I wasn't talking about the money America gives to Israel. I was talking about political/diplomatic support. Which has historically been given freely by the U.S. because both Dems and Republicans disagree with the world's assessment that everything is the fault of those evil Joos, who should be forced to kneel and present their necks for the axe.

Nor did I mention the Holocaust to wring concessions from any of you, but to explain the situation. A significant number of Israelis have lived through events where the choice was Israel or death, where even many of those who chose Israel died along the way. Certainly that was my father's experience, as a result of emigrating in the 1930s. About the same number experienced themselves, or are descended from those who happened to survive the slaughter when there was no place to go, like a few of my mother's cousins. These experiences shaped the culture of Israel. "Never again" is not a slogan about the Holocaust, but a promise to the world. Under no circumstances, standing alone against the whole world if necessary, will the Jews of Israel permit the final safe haven to be destroyed. You don't like how Israel is handling things? Then offer them a better deal instead of trying to force them to do things that will endanger their survival -- and before you condemn them, do make sure they aren't setting things up to help the U.S. when the time comes with China. Are you quite, quite certain they haven't somehow enabled what they are selling to be disabled if used against the wrong foe? Or to be easily traced by someone (like the U.S.) with sophisticated tracer thingies?
=========================
Shipman, you may be a lapsed Baptist, but in my opinion you are a fully paid up mensch.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-18 23:17|| 2005-06-18 23:17|| Front Page Top

#39 TW: But don't complain when those same weapons end up being quietly shared with terrorists to use against American troops.

Terrorists don't use MLRS's, 155mm artillery, jet fighters, destroyers or tanks. Their non-military grade weaponry include box cutters, fertilizer, blasting caps and stolen cars. Terrorists' military grade stuff (including plastic explosives, RPG's and AK's) are purchased from places like China or Russia and cost millions rather than billions of dollars.

Selling big ticket conventional weapons to Muslim countries helps soak up money they could otherwise direct towards sponsoring terrorist groups. Having Uncle Sam sell it instead of the Europeans helps the US control the kind of conflicts in which Muslim countries can get embroiled. India has traditionally been leery of buying US weaponry for this very reason - because it involves a US veto on any Indian foreign policy position that involves going to war. Note that Arab countries that have bought US weapons haven't been in a shooting war with Israel, because they can't sustain one - they know Uncle Sam won't resupply them.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 23:32|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 23:32|| Front Page Top

#40 TW: You don't like how Israel is handling things? Then offer them a better deal instead of trying to force them to do things that will endanger their survival -- and before you condemn them, do make sure they aren't setting things up to help the U.S. when the time comes with China. Are you quite, quite certain they haven't somehow enabled what they are selling to be disabled if used against the wrong foe? Or to be easily traced by someone (like the U.S.) with sophisticated tracer thingies?

We are offering them a pretty good deal. We rescued them during the Yom Kippur War by rushing supplies there and almost went to war with Russia. We are supplying them technology that nobody else will. Can Israel really sustain its military industry without American transfers of technology? Can Israel retain its air supremacy if the US stops selling them its top-of-the-line jet fighters? Can Israel remain economically viable if we slap the same trade restrictions on it that other countries have for its treatment* of the Palestinians?

* I think Israel coddles the Pallies. But the reality is that we could do a lot more business, military and civilian, with Muslim countries, if we slapped Israel around like the rest of the world.

I know Israelis think that the rest of the world is anti-Semitic. But I think their political positions have nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with making deals. If Jews were 1 billion and Muslims were 6 million, you'd see everyone lining up on Israel's side. In the real world, most people side with the top dog, not the underdog.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 23:41|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 23:41|| Front Page Top

#41 How many Saudis are currently in Iraq, Zhang Fei? What percent of the Saudi armed forces are radical Islamists? What was the weapon used to attack the Twin Towers, box cutter or jet planes? And why are we concerned that Pakistan might give nukes to Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups? The Arab countries that buy weapons from America haven't been in a shooting war with Israel because they keep losing. But wasn't there a bit of a scandal when the Israelis intercepted a ship full of weapons for the Palestinians, much more sophisticated than they'd had heretofor ... where on earth did that come from?

Whatever.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-18 23:43|| 2005-06-18 23:43|| Front Page Top

#42 TW: How many Saudis are currently in Iraq, Zhang Fei? What percent of the Saudi armed forces are radical Islamists? What was the weapon used to attack the Twin Towers, box cutter or jet planes? And why are we concerned that Pakistan might give nukes to Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups? The Arab countries that buy weapons from America haven't been in a shooting war with Israel because they keep losing. But wasn't there a bit of a scandal when the Israelis intercepted a ship full of weapons for the Palestinians, much more sophisticated than they'd had heretofor ... where on earth did that come from?

Saudis are using F-15's to attack American troops in Iraq? The fact is that every F-15 they buy is less money to support terrorists - whether they are anti-American or anti-Israeli terrorists. The jet planes they used on 9/11 weren't even Saudi planes - they were planes owned by American airlines.

Again - back to the point - American weaponry sales to Muslim countries endanger neither the US nor Israel. Israel's sale of weaponry to China does endanger the US, since only Russia is selling (much lower tech) weaponry to China. Muslims can and do buy from the Euros and the Russians (not to mention the Chinese, in the area of ballistic missiles).

Israel likes to flatter itself that its superior military might is what has kept Arab countries from overrunning it. The reality is that post-Yom Kippur in 1973, when the US almost fought a nuclear war with the Soviets over Israel, Arabs have realized that even if they overrun Israel, Uncle Sam will take the ball away from them just as Lucy keeps on taking the ball away from Charlie Brown. And their acquisition of American weaponry has hamstrung them, because Uncle Sam will not resupply them if they attack Israel.

The Pakistani nukes came from North Korea and China. We have embargoed Pakistan for the past decade. The "advanced" weaponry intercepted came from the Iranians who may have bought it either from the Russians or the Chinese.

Again, just about nothing that Uncle Sam has sold to Muslim countries is really usable by terrorists.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-18 23:58|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-18 23:58|| Front Page Top

00:10 Anonymoose
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