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2004-08-04 Home Front: Culture Wars

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Posted by Chris W. 2004-08-04 12:43:26 PM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I wouldn't last a week!
Monday - Ham/Cheese (1st Warning)
Tuesday - Balogna (2nd Warning)
Wednesday - Pepporoni Pizza (Termination)
Thursday - Hire Lawyer (CHA CHING$$$$)

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-08-04 12:59:13 PM|| 2004-08-04 12:59:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 more reason to say "screw the f@#$!&*g mulsims"...if this is true it is very distrubing... they are only victims when it suits them

Posted by Dan 2004-08-04 1:06:33 PM|| 2004-08-04 1:06:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 So where's the Anti Christian Litigants Union? Oh, that's right we're talking about Moose-Limbs...can't say anything bad now can we.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-08-04 1:23:55 PM|| 2004-08-04 1:23:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Protest idea: A whole buncha people eating BLTs in front of their office. For extra points, actually have some bacon frying up while you're there, and maybe have a nice big fan to blow the aroma towards their offices.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-04 1:47:13 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-08-04 1:47:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Sue them. Sue the ass off them. They are NOT pulling this sh*t here.

Posted by BH 2004-08-04 1:50:37 PM|| 2004-08-04 1:50:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 R.C. Also have a few pet pot-bellied pigs onhand.

Since this is a 'telecommunications company' it is operating in the 'regulated' sector? Might be some auti-discriminiation regulation being violated.....

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-08-04 1:53:31 PM|| 2004-08-04 1:53:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Dont know much about muslim dietary laws, but taking treif (unclean) meat into a kosher kitchen or dining facility could render said dining facility unkosher.

If I had a workman in my house, Id certainly expect them NOT to bring pork in.

Business establishments run by Orthodox jews (well other than kosher restaurants, obviously) dont usually have kosher dining facilities on premises, IIUC, to avoid just this problem.

But I dont really see whats the issue. A christian fundamentalist can impose a conservative dress standard in a PRIVATE business he or she owns, no?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 1:53:36 PM|| 2004-08-04 1:53:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 not entirely LH - just like Catholic Hospitals being required to have abortion services in their employee health plans...

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-04 2:01:42 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:01:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Most likely there was a disclamer that they had her sign when she was hired. If a lawsuit pops up they just need to present the disclamer and its over.

Posted by jojo 2004-08-04 2:05:43 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:05:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 --with her signature of course.

Posted by jojo 2004-08-04 2:06:15 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:06:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 According to Findlaw.com, it is illegal to discriminate in the workplace based on religious beliefs and practices.
*However*, I think there could be a good debate about "anti-religious" practices: that is, employees doing something not work related that is offensive to other persons religious beliefs and practices. Especially if there is an established company policy against it.
Now this could get interesting. For example, the sale of beef products by a 7-11 with Hindu employees, or a company with a *secular* objection, say vegetarianism, to eating meat of any kind on the premises.
There is some case law needed here.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-08-04 2:07:01 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:07:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Well of course many Americans believe that Catholic hospitals SHOULDNT be so required. If you wish to change that law, go ahead and try to change it. And of course no one requires that Catholic hospitals offer abortions ON THEIR PROPERTY.

I for one see no real hardship involved in respecting your employers preferences about what food is brought into HIS property. But if you seriously want to push through an equal eating rights law, I suppose you could do so. That would probably result in NO EMPLOYEES being allowed to bring outside food in at muslim institutions, as is often the case with Jewish institutions.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 2:08:08 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:08:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 so Frank, if i ever hire you to do some work on my house, and you sign a contract that you WONT bring pork into my house, youre gonna bring it in anyway? And if I fire you, youre gonna organize a protest in front of my house??

As info - I once applied for an admin job at a Catholic hospital - I'll be damned if i would have brought a corned beef sandwich into the dining hall on a Friday during Lent, whatever the law said. But maybe thats just me.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 2:13:09 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:13:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Fuckin Duh...

"Did you ever sign to or agree to anything that said I will not eat pork?" Holfeld asked Morales.

"Never," Morales said. "When I got hired there, they said we don't care what religion you are."

Posted by .com 2004-08-04 2:21:16 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:21:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 well that would weaken their case, though theres still the doctrine of employment at will. Basically your employer can fire you for ANYTHING they want - as long as its NOT your race, religion, gender, etc or your disability. Or to avoid paying your pension. Or to keep you from organizing a union. I think thats it. Still, I wouldnt fault her for threatening a lawsuit. They really SHOULD have had people sign something.

But them im a liberal who is sympathetic to employee lawsuits ;)

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 2:46:04 PM|| 2004-08-04 2:46:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Guess I should have taken the time to read the whole article. Thanks .com.

Posted by jojo 2004-08-04 3:09:42 PM|| 2004-08-04 3:09:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Although it may be a fine print issue.

Posted by jojo 2004-08-04 3:14:02 PM|| 2004-08-04 3:14:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 taking treif (unclean) meat into a kosher kitchen or dining facility could render said dining facility unkosher.

Does this mean that the whole of Mother Earth is unkosher since at any one time there is a pig walking around somewhere on the planet? /smartass.

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-04 3:25:03 PM|| 2004-08-04 3:25:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 "However, by the company's own admission to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, that policy is not written..."

Bzzzt, lawsuit will be a breeze as will her sucess at the state employment board. They lose.

Posted by FlameBait93268 2004-08-04 3:34:29 PM|| 2004-08-04 3:34:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Then they are victims of their own stupidity and lack of foresight.

Posted by jojo 2004-08-04 3:48:32 PM|| 2004-08-04 3:48:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Unless eating a BLT is part of her religion, I can't see how it's religious discrimination.

Sure it's a stupid policy, but I think stupid employers should have the right to chase away competent employees in whatever manner they see fit.

Posted by CTD 2004-08-04 3:49:44 PM|| 2004-08-04 3:49:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 An employee is fired because she ate something the Koran considers unclean? If one sees this as anything but an attempt to breach the live-and-let-live way of life in the US with Koranic law, he suffers from terminal wishful thinking. What else can he do that is authorized by the Koran but against American law? Remove women from all mixed gender workplaces? Force employees to remain silent or abstain from work 5 times a day for prayers? We should have all learned a long time ago-there is no respecting others' cultural norms (in this case, our country's norms) when it comes to Islam.

Here's an idea for you, bud-you want to try to force your Islamic ideas down your employees' throats? Put your demands in writing in a pre-employment contract and make the new hiree sign it; but realize by doing so that you open a flood of legal action against yourself-suits I hope you lose miserably.

I think this attempt to slip Koranic norms into our way of life is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. There is no better time for some pre-emptive legislation against this intrusion of Islam into the law of our land.

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-04 4:04:56 PM|| 2004-08-04 4:04:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Does this mean that the whole of Mother Earth is unkosher since at any one time there is a pig walking around somewhere on the planet? /smartass

No, since there are definitions to "kitchen" or "dining hall". Theoretically the only issue is the spread of treifness through contact (and you cant spread treifness through contact with human beings, only food to food, or food to utensil, or food to table surface. One can of course eat kosher food in a "treif" place - thus orthodox jews eating their salami sandwiches in a general lunchroom, taking care to avoid direct contact with surfaces, etc. In a KOSHER restaurant or dining hall however, the idea is to be able to eat more normally, with less care for contact. Which I suppose could be accomodated if the eaters of trief were very careful to avoid contact with surfaces, etc. But its not really reasonable to expect those who eat trief to be familiar with the nuances of kashrut, so its easier to simply ban non-kosher food from being brought it. However theres NO problem with trief food being consumed in another room in the SAME building.

Again I dont know about Halal laws, but my impression has always been that theyre LESS strict than Kashrut, so it really seems to me this policy IF it applies outside the dining hall, is going beyong what religious law would require.

But again, its still employment by will, aint it? Unless she had a contract, which I dont suppose she did.

Lady, join a union!

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 4:08:35 PM|| 2004-08-04 4:08:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 An employee is fired because she ate something the Koran considers unclean? If one sees this as anything but an attempt to breach the live-and-let-live way of life in the US with Koranic law, he suffers from terminal wishful thinking.

Live and let live in the US involved private property, and employer rights.

What else can he do that is authorized by the Koran but against American law? Remove women from all mixed gender workplaces?

That would violate equal treatment by gender. In the current case ALL employees are banned from eating pork. So no discrimination.

Force employees to remain silent or abstain from work 5 times a day for prayers?

Cant force anybody to pray. You can certainly force people to remain silent or abstain from work, I think. Its called "meetings"

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 4:12:56 PM|| 2004-08-04 4:12:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Here's an idea for you, bud-you want to try to force your Islamic ideas down your employees' throats? Put your demands in writing in a pre-employment contract and make the new hiree sign it; but realize by doing so that you open a flood of legal action against yourself-suits I hope you lose miserably.

And shouldnt an employer have to sign a contract with you before he decides that your job is no longer doing research, but now involves making sales calls? Or that hes changing the hours of work? But he doesnt have to do that, at least not in the US. Its called "employment at will" If SHE wanted the protection of a contract, it was up to HER to insist on one.

Like I said, join a union, lady.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-04 4:15:53 PM|| 2004-08-04 4:15:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 life in much simpler if evryone is vegans.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-08-04 5:21:39 PM|| [http://www.meatismurder.blogspot.com] 2004-08-04 5:21:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Given the big push toward "tort reform," it is increasingly difficult to win employment cases. Even in a clear cut case like this, it would likely be a hard fought fight to get the case to a jury. One before a jury, IMO, she'd win.

On the technical side, even if her employment was "at will," all that means is that her employer could fire her for any reason or no reason -- BUT NOT FOR A WRONG REASON. The federal commerce clause legislation (and the statutes of many states) will not permit commercial enterprises that are open to public commerce to violate certain norms that (if the government did the same) would violate fundamental rights â e.g., religious freedom, racial equality, etc. A NGO, religious in nature (as contrasted with a commercial enterprise open to the public), should be exempt from these laws (quasi-fundamental rights protections in the commercial sphere) under the preemption of the First Amendment.

Posted by Anonymous5992 2004-08-04 7:56:23 PM|| 2004-08-04 7:56:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Ooops, Posted by: Anonymous5992, was me. : )

Posted by cingold 2004-08-04 7:57:48 PM|| 2004-08-04 7:57:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 time for the seething American street to know the manner this "Islamic" company operates, and put these assholes out of business. Boycotts, protests, picketing and seething letters to the local rag. And no, LH, I wouldn't work for you - I have standards :-)

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-04 8:38:04 PM|| 2004-08-04 8:38:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Sometimes in my most abusive daydreams a wing of KC10s or 135s is making a low pass over Mecca dusting the place with bacon grease

Posted by cheaderhead 2004-08-04 10:43:03 PM|| 2004-08-04 10:43:03 PM|| Front Page Top

21:52 badanov
21:42 Mike from Philly
17:07 Seafarious
12:46 red
08:24 Frank G
07:51 Robert Crawford
00:02 Bomb-a-rama
23:59 Bomb-a-rama
23:31 .com
23:16 AzCat
23:11 Super Hose
23:09 AzCat
23:08 Bomb-a-rama
23:06 AWW
23:05 Super Hose
22:59 Fred
22:57 Super Hose
22:57 Bomb-a-rama
22:53 Silentbrick
22:53 Super Hose
22:44 Oldspook
22:43 cheaderhead
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22:38 red