Article

2005-08-04 Home Front: Tech

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by BigEd 2005-08-04 01:24|| || Front Page|| [11126 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I EMailed BigEd to post this...
I was ready

What? Are they nuts?
Are we a pair?
Me nice Labrador Girl,
An Afghan my heir.
Send in the clones.

Isn't it bliss?
Will they approve?
One who keeps chewing up stuff,
One who cleans up.
Where is the clone?
You are the clone.

Just when I'd started
Thinking that,
I would chase balls
They took me to that dingy old lab,
They put something strange in me
Then you came to me my pup,
I did not mate,
No one was there.

Don't you love farce?
I think this is.
I thought that you'd look like me -
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clones?
There ought to be clones.
I guess youâre my clone.

What a surprise.
Who could forsee
I'd come have one like you
Not a bit alike me?
Why only now when I see
That you're a part of me
What a surprise.
Who would believe.

Isn't it nuts?
Isn't it odd?
Having a puppy right now
Snuppy its clear?
And where are the clones?
Quick, send in the clones.
Just like you my dear.

Posted by Ogeretla 2005 2005-08-04 01:48|| 2005-08-04 01:48|| Front Page Top

#2 Above sung to "Send In The Clowns"
Stephen Sondheim

Posted by Ogeretla 2005 2005-08-04 01:49|| 2005-08-04 01:49|| Front Page Top

#3 Tina Vogel, an Afghan breeder in Norwalk, Ohio, agreed that cloning a dog "would be like cloning a person." And she is opposed to that. "If it was meant to be, God would have done it," she said.

Ever hear of twins?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-08-04 07:26|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-08-04 07:26|| Front Page Top

#4 This (successful cloning) is probably the biggest event in our lifetime. For all the excitement, the potential ethical problems are downright frightening. Dictators will want to clone their faithful drones, people will steal DNA from celebrities and sell it on e-bay. We better set standards now, because looks like cloning is here to stay and it's not going away.

Posted by 2b 2005-08-04 08:14|| 2005-08-04 08:14|| Front Page Top

#5 Not in dogs, RC. Each fetus is a separate egg and has its own amniotic sac inside the womb.

Dog reproduction is unusual among mammals in a number of ways, from the relationship of hormonal cycles to ovulation all the way through fetal development, delivery and post-whelping maturation (puppies are born well before full development of major organs such as the eyes).

Posted by show dog breeder 2005-08-04 08:17|| 2005-08-04 08:17|| Front Page Top

#6 Um, breeder, the quoted bit specifically mentioned people.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-08-04 08:20|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-08-04 08:20|| Front Page Top

#7 My comment #5 was in response to RC #3 about twins, in case that wasn't obvious.

Afghan hounds have several fairly 'primitive' sets of alleles (values at various gene sites on the the chromosomes). Probably why they were chosen for this experiment. Other 'primitive' breeds such as Basenjis also have a tiny gene pool outside of jungle tribe dogs, with a concentration of some recessive alleles which can cause health problems.

Serious and responsible breeders know about this stuff - we pay hundreds of dollars for genetic testing before breeding and donate a lot of money for research to produce new tests. The recessives exist in nature, but there animals who inherit the allele from both parents may well not get a chance to reproduce and pass it along, so there's a natural leveling off of the amount of the allele in the gene pool. Breeders seek not to concentrate it further.

Humans have been allowing more and more people with the same sorts of problems to reproduce.

Cloning might just tip the balance if we're not careful.

Posted by show dog breeder 2005-08-04 08:23|| 2005-08-04 08:23|| Front Page Top

#8 RC, I think she really is focused on the dog cloning thing too. This has been discussed for several years on the show dog breeders lists ... Vogel is a well-known and very successful Afghan breeder.

Posted by show dog breeder 2005-08-04 08:25|| 2005-08-04 08:25|| Front Page Top

#9 people will steal DNA from celebrities and sell it on e-bay

F. Paul Wilson, "Dydeetown World". Hard-boiled detective stories in an SF setting. The dame in trouble is a clone of Jean Harlow.

Appropriately, the UN building had been turned into a house of ill-repute.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-08-04 08:58|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-08-04 08:58|| Front Page Top

#10 Damn this comment thread shows expertise comes in many flavors in RB... bravo, show dog breeder!

Btw, I fully support reproductive human cloning available to all: this may well be the only way I'll ever produce offsprings (not easy finding wimmen with my physique and personnality, not to mention my social achievements), plus I may well be tempted to get a copy of myself without all the design flaws. Wow, a successful me, what a swell idea!

Oh, and keep the lack of baby-making in developped countries, especially Europe, in mind too. What about factories of clones (cue "Star wars" theme)?

Posted by anonymous5089 2005-08-04 09:00|| 2005-08-04 09:00|| Front Page Top

#11 Who let the clones out?
(Woof, woof, woof-woof!)

Posted by Mike 2005-08-04 09:19|| 2005-08-04 09:19|| Front Page Top

#12 Koreans cloning dogs?
Nah, too easy...

Posted by tu3031 2005-08-04 09:28|| 2005-08-04 09:28|| Front Page Top

#13 Ima thinka muckyfordu hava sombtin too say vrey sun.

Posted by DragonFly 2005-08-04 09:33|| 2005-08-04 09:33|| Front Page Top

#14 Tu3031: Larry Niven wrote a story about a guy who goes to a planet populated by carnivores, gets his blood taken, and later finds out that his clones were being sold as dinner for the carnivore aliens. Once again, life imitates science fiction.

So, what happens to society when some people can afford to have a clone of themselves made so they can have a ready supply of body parts that won't be rejected? The Two Americas of the future: The clone-holders and everybody else. Scary.

Posted by Jonathan">Jonathan 2005-08-04 09:46|| 2005-08-04 09:46|| Front Page Top

#15 tu...you beat me to the punch. Thinkin' the exact same thing.

Posted by BA 2005-08-04 09:50|| 2005-08-04 09:50|| Front Page Top

#16 So, what happens to society when some people can afford to have a clone of themselves made so they can have a ready supply of body parts that won't be rejected?

See also, "Clonus: The Parts Horror" and its current remake, "The Island".

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-08-04 09:51|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-08-04 09:51|| Front Page Top

#17 Ok, if no one else dares, I'll do it.

"Puppies, the other white meat"

Posted by Steve">Steve 2005-08-04 10:58|| 2005-08-04 10:58|| Front Page Top

#18 Okay (sigh).

Just keep this in mind: the dogs and wolves have a more complex and sophisticated set of social behaviors and social verbal and body language signals than any other species except humans and some gorillas.

More complex, subtle and sophisticated than that of most other primates, in fact.

It's why they and we have partnered for at least 15,000 years and probably longer.

Posted by show dog breeder 2005-08-04 11:46|| 2005-08-04 11:46|| Front Page Top

#19 And that's why cloning dogs and cloning humans are similar issues, as opposed to cloning (say) sheep.

Posted by show dog breeder 2005-08-04 11:47|| 2005-08-04 11:47|| Front Page Top

#20 Cloned dog? Tastes just like regular dog!

-- Researcher

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-08-04 12:34|| 2005-08-04 12:34|| Front Page Top

#21 Sic 'em, Fang.

Schutzhund spoke here

Posted by abu Guarddog 2005-08-04 12:50|| 2005-08-04 12:50|| Front Page Top

#22 I'm not so much interested in the issues as I am in that littel Puppy. It's the damn image (don't laugh) of Cookie Dawg. An Afghan hound that hung out for years with me.... Dawg could bounce on his hind legs for 2 minutes at a time. Stone cold crazy tho and way too fast for the south.

Posted by Shipman 2005-08-04 14:12|| 2005-08-04 14:12|| Front Page Top

#23 Cloning is no good without genetic engineering to make it interesting. Why doens't this dog glow in the dark when he is mad?

Why doesn't this dog have photosynthetic skin so we can do away with feeding him and cleaning up after him? Then the mouth can be adapted for better catching of frisbies without drool.

If they are going to clone him... be bold and imaginative...

Posted by 3dc 2005-08-04 15:22|| 2005-08-04 15:22|| Front Page Top

#24 3dc-

Scientists are working on your requests...

Posted by BigEd 2005-08-04 16:08|| 2005-08-04 16:08|| Front Page Top

#25 Because dogs are perfection itself ust as they are ... at least mine are. ;-)

Posted by show dog breeder 2005-08-04 17:56|| 2005-08-04 17:56|| Front Page Top

00:09 JosephMendiola
00:03 trailing wife
23:58 trailing wife
23:54 trailing wife
23:50 JosephMendiola
23:36 Phil Fraering
23:33 plainslow
23:32 JosephMendiola
23:25 Jackal
23:19 trailing wife
23:19 Sock Puppet 0â Doom
23:15 Danielle
23:07 Atomic Conspiracy
23:06 Red Dog
23:04 SteveS
23:01 Jackal
22:58 trailing wife
22:56 Rafael
22:55 Rafael
22:50 SteveS
22:49 trailing wife
22:45 LC FOTSGreg
22:36 3dc
22:26 Laurence of the Rats