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2022-08-08 -Short Attention Span Theater-

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Posted by Besoeker 2022-08-08 08:05|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ] Top

#1 I always thought the fuel tank vapors theory was a bit strange.

Posted by Besoeker 2022-08-08 08:08|| 2022-08-08 08:08|| Front Page Top

#2
Remember... Those that brought up the missile theroy had the Admin and Media attacked them and worse. PanAm airlines died and 10's of 1,000's lost jobs and years of work put in towards their retirements. Will the US Gov Compensate the families now.

BTW: Who was in DC control back in 96?

Posted by NN2N1 2022-08-08 08:46|| 2022-08-08 08:46|| Front Page Top

#3 Wasn't there a video from shore that some said it looked like a missile struck it?

Posted by Chris 2022-08-08 09:38|| 2022-08-08 09:38|| Front Page Top

#4 ...There's a word for this, and it rhymes with 'Full Spit." (Beo, let me make clear - what follows isn't aimed at you, but rather the guy who wrote the article.)

So, in 26 years , Mr. Teele is the only person out of the 171 aboard who has spoken up?

A US warship executed a live fire in a heavily traveled area without any kind of notice to mariners or aviators? If so, why?

All of the air traffic controllers who would have seen a missile track have kept their mouths shut?

The deckhands who cleaned up the after effects from the shot never said a word - nor did the folks at Yorktown Naval Weapons Center who would have had to account for and replace a Standard missile?

Oh, and let's look at one of the many available videos of night missile launches from USN ships. ONE shot would have lit up the sky for miles around and left a trail for several seconds afterwards. One of the most heavily trafficked waters on the planet, and no one else saw anything?

Mike

Posted by MikeKozlowski 2022-08-08 10:06|| 2022-08-08 10:06|| Front Page Top

#5 Standard has a warhead of about 150 pounds. Half again that of a 155mm round. Should have blown the thing into tinfoil.
Nope. Black market MANPAD.
FEDS had three separate and conflicting reasons for the explosive residue.Should have stuck with One.
MANPAD with 7-8 pound head makes the aircraft tear itself up.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2022-08-08 12:36|| 2022-08-08 12:36|| Front Page Top

#6 I read the book years ago. Certainly, a shoot-down is possible. The navy does point fire control radar at civilian planes and ships for practice. The Saratoga incident in Turkey is an example of how that could go wrong. Silence by an entire crew seems very unlikely. Still, the 2020 election, the Wuhan Lab Leak and the J6 operation is beginning to make me uneasy about calling anything a "conspiracy theory" at the moment. That said, I don't find Jack Cashill to be particularly reliable.

Posted by Super Hose 2022-08-08 12:43|| 2022-08-08 12:43|| Front Page Top

#7 #4 & #5 seem the best fit to my mind.

I have seen some time back a foreign nation sub story with a MANPAD that hinted at the Iranians as payback for the Airbus shootdown years earlier?

James Kallstrom, lead FBI agent in the investigation, has always seemed a genuinely honest guy though...

Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-08-08 13:14|| 2022-08-08 13:14|| Front Page Top

#8 MANPADs can't reach that high. They're only effective when the plane is low.

Posted by Tiny Jeater6933 2022-08-08 14:05|| 2022-08-08 14:05|| Front Page Top

#9 Though Infantry by nature and training, I had the misfortune to spend a year in Air Defense; terrible place for a simple but honest grunt. Nike Hecules, to date myself.
Those bad boys were BIG. They are also expensive.You don't lose one and write off along with a few items from the site Post Exchange.
A captain signing for a ship with twenty Standard is going to count them twice and if there are nineteen, he's not signing. So it would have to have been replaced with all the attendant paperwork. Including as to why. "Expended" "fell overboard"
There is a line of accountability starting at the factory door. Every time one moves from one echelon to the next, the losing unit WANTS paperwork explaining why they don't have the thing any longer. It's not going to have an empty hole in the racks.
Should be easy to trace.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2022-08-08 14:14|| 2022-08-08 14:14|| Front Page Top

#10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

effective altitude just over 12300 ft so wthin the margin of error and detonation burst radius hypothetically?

Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-08-08 14:14|| 2022-08-08 14:14|| Front Page Top

#11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-43_Redeye

Redeye MANPAD, contemporaneous at the time, 14,000 range.

Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-08-08 14:16|| 2022-08-08 14:16|| Front Page Top

#12 Before the afternoon shift starts, let me be the first to shout "JEWISH SPACE LASERS!!"

OK, back to the grownup discussion.

Posted by SteveS 2022-08-08 14:24|| 2022-08-08 14:24|| Front Page Top

#13 altitude at time of impact is contentious. Could be within envelope of Stinger or Redeye. Info on improve Strela is mixed but could also fit some of the proposed flight profiles.
I don't think they're using it any longer but at one point, an Army tracked vehicle carried four Sidewinders with additional launch acceleration boosters.No idea if a 'winder's performance from ground launch would have been useful in an AA role. Point is, however, to expand thinking to whatever else is out there beyond a Manpad weighing as much as an 81mm mortar. It doesn't have to be man portable if you have two guys to horse it on to a boat when nobody's watching.
The Feds found a guy who is some kind eye and vision expert to say it's common, when seeing an airplane blow up, to think you saw a streak up from the surface--like some witnesses claimed.
Yeah, common if you're an antiaircraft gunner, I guess.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2022-08-08 15:00|| 2022-08-08 15:00|| Front Page Top

#14 Stinger at time were impact fuze there were no "burst radius" , same for Redeye.

Posted by Kofi Panda2845 2022-08-08 18:13|| 2022-08-08 18:13|| Front Page Top

#15 My DD214 says 12A, 35A, 54A, so I get a pass for ADA details! Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-08-08 20:16|| 2022-08-08 20:16|| Front Page Top

#16 Back in my day, 12A was Armor, not Engineer....

Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-08-08 20:20|| 2022-08-08 20:20|| Front Page Top

#17 When I was in, it was 11E for armor crewman.

Posted by badanov 2022-08-08 20:21|| 2022-08-08 20:21|| Front Page Top

#18 I claim brain frat PanAm shb TWA.
Was thinking Lockabee PanAm 103 incident at same time.

Posted by NN2N1 2022-08-08 20:32|| 2022-08-08 20:32|| Front Page Top

#19 kofi panda

Feds said there were no frags in passengers' bodies. That would follow if a small warhead struck, say, the cargo bay or the accursed centerline fuel tank. Hell, even an 81mm mortar round is bigger than that. The function of our MANPADs is to put the enemy out of the fight and maybe he doesn't make it home. If the head goes up the tail pipe, the bazillion rpm turbine tears the aircraft apart, ditto hitting some armament. But blowing the thing all over the sky isn't in the program. You have to have the a/c do it to itself with some encouragement. That's a trade-off for the "man portable" thing.

Did read somebody say his brother flew 747 and said none were taken out of service to fix fuel sensors. Maybe that can be done in a couple of minutes, depending on placement. Maybe the brother doesn't exist. Maybe there was but no way now to check on that.

11B 71542

For grins, look up Arrowair 1285. 250 of our guys gone.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2022-08-08 22:06|| 2022-08-08 22:06|| Front Page Top

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