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2016-08-15 -Short Attention Span Theater-

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Posted by Besoeker 2016-08-15 07:57|| || Front Page|| [11124 views ] Top

#1 Whaddaload.

The Eastern Empire is still Rome. It lasted another 1000 years under Christianity. Scratch those two "causes".

Slavery and economic instability were not new, and the replacements still had both. There's a collection of Roman coins at the Palazzo Massimo Museum that show the coinage fluctuating from silver to base to silver and back -- while the empire was still growing. Scratch those.

The military was weakened because of corruption; part of the answer was to hire entire tribes in exchange for Roman citizenship and land. Fewer ethnic or cultural Romans served because they we'r the most productive workers, and the Senators valued their income more than the safety of the Imperial fringes.

Political instability was so common -- in the early and late Empire -- that stability was remarkable -- and under the Eastern Empire the one time succession went the way everyone expected, they were so shocked they gave the emperor the by-name "born to the purple".

Rome fell largely because the political elite stopped caring about Romans so much as themselves.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2016-08-15 08:29|| 2016-08-15 08:29|| Front Page Top

#2 Rome fell largely because the political elite stopped caring about Romans so much as themselves.
Posted by Rob Crawford

Rob - Agree! Would your 'political elite' cause fall somewhere under #5, with #2 and many of the rest as helpers ?

Yes, over-simplification indeed. Author Edward Gibbon would be appalled. I've come to appreciate simple.

Posted by Besoeker 2016-08-15 08:38|| 2016-08-15 08:38|| Front Page Top

#3 The History Channel programming is my favorite comedy channel.

Posted by magpie 2016-08-15 08:50|| 2016-08-15 08:50|| Front Page Top

#4 Anders article and the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire doesn't translate directly into modern times items one-for-one but there are definitely parallels today. Invasions of the barbarbian tribes could be translated into unrestricted immigration of often "hostiles" with little vetting or assimilation, loss of values (✔), economic troubles (✔), government corruption (✔), and weakening of the military (✔).

Posted by JohnQC 2016-08-15 08:59|| 2016-08-15 08:59|| Front Page Top

#5 The military was weakened because of corruption; part of the answer was to hire entire tribes in exchange for Roman citizenship and land

For which the barbarians developed the skills and organizational abilities that the Romans had bringing them on par in battles. See - The Battle of Adrianople (9 August 378)

Remember the late Republic and Early Empire, capital was created through conquest and looting of enriched neighbors. Part of the reason the East lasted so long was it was far more economically viable as a region than the West. Once the expansion was done, the availability of new economic resources became a zero sum game.

Posted by Procopius2k 2016-08-15 09:16|| 2016-08-15 09:16|| Front Page Top

#6 I have read somewhere. that even after the fall of Rome, many within the far flung empire continued to consider themselves Romans.

Posted by Besoeker 2016-08-15 09:25|| 2016-08-15 09:25|| Front Page Top

#7 9. Aliens

Posted by swksvolFF 2016-08-15 09:26|| 2016-08-15 09:26|| Front Page Top

#8 Debasement of Roman currency was an important factor.

Posted by Glairong Sforza7574 2016-08-15 09:34|| 2016-08-15 09:34|| Front Page Top

#9 B - that's why they called the follow on the "Holy Roman Empire". There was still prestige in the name for some, if nothing more some sense of legitimacy to the hierarchical position they had carved for themselves. See also - Caesar, Czar, Kaiser, et al.

Posted by Procopius2k 2016-08-15 09:34|| 2016-08-15 09:34|| Front Page Top

#10 See also - Caesar, Czar, Kaiser, et al.
Posted by: Procopius2k

Might we also add the Republican party ?

Posted by Besoeker 2016-08-15 09:36|| 2016-08-15 09:36|| Front Page Top

#11 "SPQR is an initialism of a Latin phrase Senātus Populusque Rōmānus referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic"

Given the number of RINOs in the Senate, why not?

Posted by Procopius2k 2016-08-15 10:38|| 2016-08-15 10:38|| Front Page Top

#12 What about Nostradamus, Hitler, and the ancient aliens?

Posted by charger 2016-08-15 10:56|| 2016-08-15 10:56|| Front Page Top

#13 Did you not see the episode where Nostradamus predicted that aliens would time transport Hitler to Roman times where he assumed the identity of Julius Caesar then faked his death and was re-transported to 1935?

/sarc because History Channel

Posted by swksvolFF 2016-08-15 12:34|| 2016-08-15 12:34|| Front Page Top

#14 Can't believe I missed that one.

Fucking Mossad.

Posted by charger 2016-08-15 13:10|| 2016-08-15 13:10|| Front Page Top

#15 Last spring, the wife and I got off the cruise ship and took a day tour of Olympia, where the guide told us they held the Olympic games for a thousand years. Wars were put on standby for a couple of weeks, plus travel time, so the games could continue. There are still statues erected to the cheaters who got caught. Dopers were caught by tasting, or so we were told.

Posted by Bobby 2016-08-15 13:22|| 2016-08-15 13:22|| Front Page Top

#16 What causes nations or empires to be defeated and to disappear?
There are two essentials; there must be external enemies willing to take over. And the entity must lose the ability to defend itself from them.
Surprisingly enough, a long period of internal peace and external security is the main cause of the second cause.
Until near the end of the Fourth Century, there was constant strife within and without Western Europe. The Germanic tribes were mainly hostile to the Roman Empire, and the heads of the legions that defended the Empire from them, when not occupied by such efforts, dreamed of widening their powers to other areas. Most of the time there were several "Caesars" and two or three "Caesar Augustus's" among them, and these (who we call emperors) were constantly fighting, and fighting off would be rivals from among the legion leaders.
The Emperor Julian (the Apostate) was a highly successful military leader until his death fighting the Persians. He came up with a solution that created internal stability. He required that every official city or town in the empire create a locally selected council, which had to approve of all its expenses. This meant that military leaders were deprived of their absolute rule, and greatly weakened their powers. It cut down on internal strife, as intended, but also put economic stress on the legions. They became less attractive for locals. As the Germanic tribes became more comfortable with Roman life, they were happy to serve in the legions, which paid better than alternatives at home. The Western Romans, experiencing too much peace lost interest in and ability to defend themselves.
In the East, there were Turks and Persians and Arabs and others who were not subdued, and who required its Empire to keep on its toes until modern times.
Funny that nobody seems to remember this.

Posted by Grins Snese4215 2016-08-15 14:04|| 2016-08-15 14:04|| Front Page Top

#17 #6 many within the far flung empire continued to consider themselves Romans

A plague on the vulgar barbarians
Who, after our fall, have the arrogance
To -- outside this city
(it makes a pol giddy!) --
Consider themselves, all, Americans!

Posted by Zenobia Floger6220 2016-08-15 14:25|| 2016-08-15 14:25|| Front Page Top

#18 Well let's just ask some of History Channel's panel of history lecturers:

"The Romans. Did not. Pay reparations."
-Jesse Jackson jr.

"Resisted they must."
-Al Sharpton

"So there I was, when the walls fell."
-Brian Williams

"The hostati acted stupidly."
Henry Gates

"They did not fight well against Vercingetter getter getter ix."
John McCain

*If you cannot tell whether these are real quotes, they are not. However, they were all presented as experts in history on various programs, such as The History of US and Barbarians Rising.

Posted by swksvolFF 2016-08-15 15:33|| 2016-08-15 15:33|| Front Page Top

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