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2014-08-19 Home Front: Culture Wars

U.S. Troops on Streets after Police Shooting Protests

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Posted by trailing wife 2014-08-19 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11130 views ] Top

#1 The entire issue from the perspective of the rioters is that the police should be able to handle an unarmed citizen with all the tools available to them such as stun guns, pepper spray, or in the worse case scenario shooting to maim but not to kill. If there is a struggle for the gun, that is a different story. There needs to be a daily briefing of the details as more and more details emerge. Information is very slow to come out in my opinion`.

Posted by Ebbomosh Hupemp2664 2014-08-19 01:16|| 2014-08-19 01:16|| Front Page Top

#2 It all seems so delightfully Third World.

Posted by SteveS 2014-08-19 02:10|| 2014-08-19 02:10|| Front Page Top

#3 "shooting to maim but not to kill"

Ain't no such thing in the real world.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2014-08-19 07:46|| 2014-08-19 07:46|| Front Page Top

#4 OK, not "shoot to maim".
In reality, "shoot to cause a lawyer to be hired".

Posted by ed in texas 2014-08-19 08:03|| 2014-08-19 08:03|| Front Page Top

Jimmy, Mr. Wilson is a retired police officer. Geez Mr. Wilson, tell us again how you capped that worthless, ragging, POS robbery suspect in Ferguson.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-19 08:16|| 2014-08-19 08:16|| Front Page Top

#6 Technically, they are 'State' troops under the authority of the governor. What the world (and AnNahar) doesn't understand is that it still has the vestiges of the United States of America. If they're not on the federal payroll, they are not 'U.S.' troops. The President has the authority to 'federalize' them (see-Eisenhower, Little Rock), at which time they become 'U.S.' troops.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-19 08:18|| 2014-08-19 08:18|| Front Page Top

#7 Please fix the bold after States. Thank you.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-19 08:18|| 2014-08-19 08:18|| Front Page Top

#8 Changed as requested, Procopius2k. This is why Fred put in that Preview button. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2014-08-19 09:03|| 2014-08-19 09:03|| Front Page Top

#9 P2K, the National Guard is not a state unit. It's a federal unit. It's bought and paid for by the Congress. Congress authorizes the governors to use the NG for state purposes unless they've been federalized for some reason.

But the NG is a federal unit.

Posted by Steve White 2014-08-19 09:47|| 2014-08-19 09:47|| Front Page Top

#10 I watched this farce on CNN last night for two hours. If Don Lemon and Jake Tapper bent over backwards any further to make excuse after excuse for the 'protestors', their heads would be in China.

Also, Malik Shabazz (fairly well known in Boston as a rabble rouser) referred to the police weapons as 'artillery'. Don Lemon did not challenge that one at all.

Posted by Raj 2014-08-19 10:19|| 2014-08-19 10:19|| Front Page Top

#11 Sorry, but it is a state unit. Congress's authority is (Article I, Section 8)

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

When they're employed on state money, they're under state authority. Each state has their own NG Adjutant General which acts as the equivalent to the federal Chief of Staff. Here's the AZ legislative definition -

26-102. Powers and duties of the adjutant general

A. The adjutant general shall serve as head of the department. The governor as commander in chief shall administer and control the national guard, and the adjutant general is responsible to the governor for execution of all orders relating to the militia, organization, activation, reactivation, inactivation and allocation of units, recruiting of personnel, public relations and discipline and training of the national guard and those members of the militia inducted into the service of this state as provided in this chapter. The adjutant general shall act as military chief of staff to the governor and chief of all branches of the militia. - cite

more here.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-19 10:51|| 2014-08-19 10:51|| Front Page Top

#12 General Officers of the Regular Army are appointed by, and serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States. State Adjutant Generals are appointed by the Governor.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-19 10:58|| 2014-08-19 10:58|| Front Page Top

#13 Even more on the state AGs.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-19 11:08|| 2014-08-19 11:08|| Front Page Top

#14 BTW, Google their websites to see how they refer to themselves. It's basically with the state name followed by National Guard, not preceded by "U.S.".

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-19 11:14|| 2014-08-19 11:14|| Front Page Top

#15 Steve, unless they have been federalized under a Title 10, the national Guard is most definitely a not federal unit.

The alternate is SAD, State Active Duty, as the militia of the State at the command of the Governor, restricted to the boundaries of that state. They can arrest and assume law enforcement status in this role.

Title 32 leaves them under State command but federally regulated. Basically it allows for full time Guard positions to exist. These are still nominally state positions, but federally regulated and subject to Posse Comitatus (no arrest power), unless also on SAD (state active duty) by order of the governor of the state. This dual status was what worked in Katrina for out of state Guard units.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-19 11:23|| 2014-08-19 11:23|| Front Page Top

#16 And FYI, the Guard is paid for by the state, not the Feds, unless on active duty for the Feds. Congress funds it for capability in federal service, which the states can use.

A current example is Texas use of the NG at the border as called up by Gov Perry. Texas will end up paying operational costs if they can't get the actions qualified for federal funding (expect a lawsuit, Texas vs US)

Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-19 11:34|| 2014-08-19 11:34|| Front Page Top

#17 And it's verified that the MO national guard is Active under State authority. So Title 10, Title 32, and Title 18 (posse comitatus) do not apply. they are state, answerable only to the Governor, and can act in law enforcement capacity. They are also paid for out of the state of Missouri funds, for which they can apply for federal aid.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-19 11:52|| 2014-08-19 11:52|| Front Page Top

#18 All of the above not withstanding...the Missouri Gov/NG was just bought (8/15) by a Fed contract for $555m.

Posted by Skidmark 2014-08-19 13:35|| 2014-08-19 13:35|| Front Page Top

#19 Detention camps?

Posted by KBK 2014-08-19 14:26|| 2014-08-19 14:26|| Front Page Top

#20 ISIS encouraging protesters to embrace radical Islam.

Posted by Ebbomosh Hupemp2664 2014-08-19 14:35|| 2014-08-19 14:35|| Front Page Top

#21 The entire issue from the perspective of the rioters is that the police should be able to handle an unarmed citizen with all the tools available to them such as stun guns, pepper spray, or in the worse case scenario shooting to maim but not to kill.
Sounds like the Rodney King arrest. Same results.

Posted by rjschwarz 2014-08-19 14:50|| 2014-08-19 14:50|| Front Page Top

#22 Egypt urges U.S. restraint over Missouri unrest
Reuters) - Egypt on Tuesday urged U.S. authorities to exercise restraint in dealing with racially charged demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri - echoing language Washington used to caution Egypt as it cracked down on Islamist protesters last year.

U.S. foes Iran and Syria also lambasted the United States, but while they are frequent critics of Washington, it is unusual for Egypt to criticize such a major donor. It was not immediately clear why Egypt would issue such a statement.
The Egyptian Foreign Ministry's statement on the unrest in Ferguson read similarly to one issued by U.S. President Barack Obama's administration in July 2013, when the White House "urged security forces to exercise maximum restraint and caution" in dealing with demonstrations by Mursi supporters.

The ministry added it was "closely following the escalation of protests" in Ferguson, Missouri.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2014-08-19 14:58|| 2014-08-19 14:58|| Front Page Top

#23 FSA factions in possession of TOW missiles
Had to consult my cast of characters and 'Burg acronym dictionary to figure out this headline

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2014-08-19 15:13|| 2014-08-19 15:13|| Front Page Top

#24 Egypt urges U.S. restraint over Missouri unrest

Who knew the Egyptians had such a sense of humor?

As for Malik Shabazz referred to the police weapons as 'artillery' , a little artillery would dampen the protester's enthusiasm rather quickly. Or maybe a drone armed with cluster bombs.

Posted by SteveS 2014-08-19 15:35|| 2014-08-19 15:35|| Front Page Top

#25 Skid, sayin the Guard was bought? You're on thin ice with insults like that to the integrity of the guard personnel and commanding officers.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-19 16:50|| 2014-08-19 16:50|| Front Page Top

#26 Also Skidmark, that lik was to NG small biz (fences, base ops, etc) contracts to MISSISSIPPI you dumbass. You should just shut the f up when you want yo question the integrity of something you know nothing about.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-19 16:57|| 2014-08-19 16:57|| Front Page Top

#27 You shoot to stop the threat. You do not shoot to maim or kill.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2014-08-19 17:06|| 2014-08-19 17:06|| Front Page Top

#28 DoD (aka the Fed) funds the state NGs because it wants the trained personnel and equipment ready for deployment/utilization. If DoD didn't fund the NG the time to equip and train up would be in the months (too late) rather than weeks upon federalization. In return (as per the Article 1, Section 8) DoD establishes standards of training and standardized equipping (TO&E), which really ramped up after the First Gulf War/Desert Storm. Before that event, NG officers derived their appointment from the governors with varying degrees of capability. After that event, law was implemented that set standards for federal recognition of those appointments upon mobilization, though the governors still appoint. And, yes, there is a taint of 'good old boy' politics in some of that (not to be confused with the 'fighter mafia' or 'ring tappers' among the regulars).
Indeed, the Guard is a strange creature that has evolved over two hundred years.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-19 17:50|| 2014-08-19 17:50|| Front Page Top

#29 "A whiff of grape will cure any mob."

Posted by Barbara 2014-08-19 19:24|| 2014-08-19 19:24|| Front Page Top

#30 To OldSpook and others who commented earlier on my statement that the NG is federal, not state: my basis for what I said is the 1933 National Guard Mobilization Act, which made clear that the NG is a federal entity (receiving federal funding) and separate from any state militia that might exist.

As I understand it, most NG personnel have dual appointments, both federal and state. The feds pay almost all of the salaries, equipment, training, etc., and can call a NG unit to active duty at any time. The state militia side of this is that a governor can call them to duty for emergencies through the state adjutants general.

So it looks like they are BOTH federal AND state at the same time. Learned something.

Posted by Steve White 2014-08-19 19:42|| 2014-08-19 19:42|| Front Page Top

23:58 Flomp Hupavirt9500
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