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2006-08-26 Syria-Lebanon-Iran

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Posted by tipper 2006-08-26 11:46|| || Front Page|| [11144 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Clash of Civilizations", man, the French finally got something right, but they are on the wrong side as usual.

Let's just go and get it over with.....

Posted by Bama Marine 2006-08-26 12:46|| 2006-08-26 12:46|| Front Page Top

#2 I get the feeling of A Chinese,Russian axis behind the Iran, North Korean threat still bitter of the outcome of the cold war.

I think US,UK,Israel and Aussies have more than Pakland/Iran to worry about.

Posted by Angomort Whereng8886 2006-08-26 12:56|| 2006-08-26 12:56|| Front Page Top

#3 "Iran could argue that 'the U.S. couldn't even get the Security Council backing, and so we are winning.' "

They could do it, but they would be wrong. That's for sure.

Posted by RMN 2006-08-26 13:04|| 2006-08-26 13:04|| Front Page Top

#4 This will not be solved through diplomacy.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-08-26 13:06|| 2006-08-26 13:06|| Front Page Top

#5 I get the feeling of A Chinese,Russian axis behind the Iran, North Korean threat still bitter of the outcome of the cold war.

I think US,UK,Israel and Aussies have more than Pakland/Iran to worry about.

That's my pet theory too.

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-08-26 13:19|| 2006-08-26 13:19|| Front Page Top

#6 "But the worst thing would be to escalate into a confrontation with Iran on the one hand and the Muslim world with Iran and the West," he said on French radio. "That would be the clash of civilizations that France today is practically alone in trying to avoid."

Why are you delaying the inevitable, France? Shortage of white flags?

Posted by Parabellum 2006-08-26 13:30|| 2006-08-26 13:30|| Front Page Top

#7 For the french Establishment, the clash of civilization is an american creation and a real bopogeyman; it's kinda contradicts their notion of the end of History/end of Nations/end of capitalism (aka the anglosaxon world order).
See this for a genesis of this worldview

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-08-26 13:36|| 2006-08-26 13:36|| Front Page Top

#8 Not to mention the stark terror that French leaders feel. They know it is likely that their decades of both discrimination against their Muslims and dhimmi behavior towards Arab countries means France will go up in flames when this clash of civilizations erupts so openly they cannot ignore it any longer.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-26 13:46|| 2006-08-26 13:46|| Front Page Top

#9 The Russians conveniently forget the effect sanctions had on the former govt of South Africa.

Posted by doc 2006-08-26 14:44|| 2006-08-26 14:44|| Front Page Top

#10 Not to mention the stark terror that French leaders feel.

Ms Lotp, yes, very, very true IMHO.

I'm certainly biased by my reading and the conservative/rightwing free radio I listen to, but the fear element is here in full effect. As acknowledged in public by a french official during a very interesting french tevee talkshow, one of the various reasons France didn't join in OIF is that the RG police intelligence told the gvt the 'hoods would have erupted in flames if so. And don't forget the response to the november ramadan riots was to throw more money, promote multiculturalism, affirmative action, etc, etc... IE caving in and appeasement, while police was prevented from any kind of meaningful response to this, past a pure "management".

France has stuck herself into a situation where she's held hostage by her "guests", because none of the Establishment pol has the will to do the very painful and demanding necessary moves to exit that trap (and there are the petrodollars too, and ideology...).

In France, the gvt doesn't govern anymore, it can't enforce its sovereignty over areas beyond its control (100 torched cars a night, at the very least, "traditional" riots on Xmas, 1st january, 14th july, a huge underworld economy based on haschich traffic from north africa...), all it can do is smother the middle class, keep the system on life support (subsisiding the "dangerous classes" with welfare money taken from the middle class) and wait for the "true" crisis to erupt, someday.
They're not only inept (they KNOW perfectly what's going on), they're deluded (they think they can ride the tiger and have to fight their "ennemies" anyway).

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-08-26 14:59|| 2006-08-26 14:59|| Front Page Top

#11 Does our leadership in any way think trade sanctions will avert nuclear war? If they do, then take away the Persian hash-hish they are smoking. This is not a situation where you can gradually ramp up diplomatic rhetoric and then all sing kumbaya. This is a situation of travelling down a road with two cliffs. You can now jump into smaller cliff of conventional war or wait until until the road runs out and are forced to fight in the nuclear chasm. The choice is thousands dead no or millions dead later. Judging from the lack of military preparations, our leaders have already chosen millions of dead.

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 16:42|| 2006-08-26 16:42|| Front Page Top

#12 Bravo, ED.

Posted by SR-71 2006-08-26 17:12|| 2006-08-26 17:12|| Front Page Top

#13 Bush administration officials have indicated that they are prepared to form an independent coalition to freeze Iranian assets and restrict trade.

If this is the best they can do, they are not fit for leadership.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei B. Ivanov said Friday that as long as Iran was willing to negotiate, it was "premature" to punish the country and perhaps permanently isolate it.

The fact that negotiating with Iran has NEVER produced a single substantive result throughout the entire post-Shah period renders the above absolutely meaningless.

"I do not know cases in international practice or the whole of the previous experience when sanctions reached their goals or were efficient," Ivanov said.

Then why is Ivanov even wasting his breath blathering on about exploring diplomatic solutions with a regime that has flouted every single attempt at such throughout its entire history?

In any case Russia continues to advocate a political and diplomatic solution to the problem."

The only issue being solved is Russia's cashflow problem by selling Iran every last bit of nuclear and military hardware they can unload before the mullahs get their @sses roasted with atomic bombs. Russia's one significant contribution to this problem has been to pour gasoline on the fire.

"But the worst thing would be to escalate into a confrontation with Iran on the one hand and the Muslim world with Iran and the West,"

Too late. It's already begun, and we didn't start it. But we will certainly finish it. Only the blindest of the blind do not realize this.

Perkovich said even traditional U.S. allies were fatigued by dealing with so many conflicts and didn't want to add Iran to a list that includes Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon.

Too effing bad! World Wars just happen to involve lots of other countries. Obviously, there just haven't been sufficient numbers of Islamic atrocities to convince these morons yet. Just wait, you'll get your wish. Idiots!

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-26 17:15|| 2006-08-26 17:15|| Front Page Top

#14 Talk about cliffs, ed, you're jumping now - yet there is no evidence you can point to that proves your presumptions and assertions. None. They do not have a deliverable nuke now or they'd be holding parades and dancing about in leotards with vials of enriched uranium.

That we haven't knocked off the Mullahs yet is all you have to back up your claims. I always enjoy your posts - except on this topic. You've decided, without a shred of real evidence, to say Bush isn't going to do anything. Fine - that's just your completely unsubstantiated opinion, not fact. I believe otherwise - that he will try to bring the Congress onboard and, failing that, act alone as President - and the bulk of available evidence is on my side. The timeline is unknown to us. It's likely unknown to Bush, too, but he knows more about it than we do. The heavy water story today certainly indicates that the Doomsday Date is further off than we think - meaning he's on top of things and the Dire Moment is, indeed, much further down the line. There may be plenty of time to try the sanctions game - can you say for certain? No. Neither can I.

You nor I know what the Bush admin knows. We don't even know what they think except that which has been said publicly. And publicly, repeatedly, Bush has said that Iran must not have nukes.

The intel situation today, especially given the gravity of the situation, certainly sucks. Bush is having to run a race on 6 cylinders. Suck to be him, IMHO.

There are three course of "action" available, I believe:

1) Do nothing, Euro-style, until the Mullahs have a deliverable nuke. Then reap the resulting terror you predict.

2) Get the US Senate to take the threat seriously, to take the protection of Israel and everyone else within range of Iranian missiles seriously. To wake the fuck up and match the House with a Joint Resolution that gives Bush the authority (actually the "blessing" of the Congress) to act against Iran.

3) Bush can take his chances and go it alone - for he is empowered to protect National Security. This is a problematic choice - look at the Dhimmis in the US who are already chomping at the bit to impeach him for merely trying to track jihadi phone calls into the US. Let the Dhimmis gain control of the House and impeachment charges will be immediately filed. The circus will end any serious efforts to stop Iran. If he goes ahead and takes them down, as we know he must, he will surely be convicted, too, if the Dhimmis hold the House.

Right now, at this moment, it is a political impasse.

Believe me when I say that I am as frustrated with the pace of things regards Iran as you are. But we can stop the circus from coming to town in November - if we're willing to back up our big talk. We can kick the Senate in the ass with letters and emails and support for those who aren't idiots and for those who seek to replace idiots. We can do something about this, other than just moan and groan and issue dire warnings.

He's doing what he can, as he sees it. That he sees more about Iran, its intentions, its progress, and the threat than we do SHOULD be obvious. That he is worth his word should also be obvious.

I'm really tired of this shit. All of this, the reality that Bush has to deal with - not the fantasy of do it my way on my schedule cuz I say so - should be intuitively obvious to the casual observer. Give the man a fucking break - he's earned that much, at least. When the shit hits the fan, whether it's a flying Iranian nuke or 1500 aimpoints being obliterated across Iran, then (and only then) will we know for certain who's right.

Meanwhile, Peace... Through Superior Firepower.

Posted by flyover 2006-08-26 17:23|| 2006-08-26 17:23|| Front Page Top

#15 Would somebody get real? The country is not ready to take action on Iran. Bush cannot engage in military action of the type necessary in Iran without the country behind it. This is the next step. There are a lot more steps to go through to get a sufficent number on board. It's not like the Iranians can nuke NYC tomorrow. And as an added bonus, the UN may be finished by the time Bush gets done.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-26 17:24|| 2006-08-26 17:24|| Front Page Top

#16 The Russians are nuts to think they can escape the destruction. When the bombs go off, any surviving missiles will be launched at any and all infidels in range. Say goodbye to Volgograd, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Athens, Rome, Paris, Berlin, London. Take small comfort in the knowledge it was your technical help and smuggled machines that made it possible.

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 17:27|| 2006-08-26 17:27|| Front Page Top

#17 The Iranians have had the machinery for at least 3000 P1 centrifuges (2 SWU/year) and years ago announced plans to manufacture 50,000 manufacure more. On April 11, 2006, Iran announced that it had enriched a small quantity of uranium to 3.5 percent in its experimental 164-centrifuge test cascade. It also announced plans to begin building a 3,000-centrifuge cascade by the end of 2006. A cascade of 3000 P1 centrifuges would produce enough HEU for 1 crude bomb or 2-3 implosion type bombs/year. On that timeline by 2007E, the Iranians will have the material for 2-3 bombs based on the Chinese 2nd gen design used by Pakistan and distributed thoughout the muslim world. This assumes there are not thousands of other centrifuges chugging away these last few years in tunnels under Tehran. The Iranians have the machinery to manufacture them and their public announcements were to have 50,000 in operation at Natanz. Gotta be a real believer to think they haven't been using that machinery to make centrifuges and sticking them in tunnels. especcially when even the US found traces of HEU.

The Iranians have announced they already have 85 metric tons of UF6 and an untraceable domestic source of uranium. They have had these several years to produce on the sly enough HEU for several bombs. Using just the publicly announced centrufuges and heavy water reactors are on line, the Iranians will be able to produce at least 50 crude and 100-150 implosion type atomic bombs/year. Then with tritium extraction, you can see where I am going. When dealing with the Iranians, look at capabilities. The malevalence is a given.

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 18:00|| 2006-08-26 18:00|| Front Page Top

#18 even the UN found traces of HEU

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 18:01|| 2006-08-26 18:01|| Front Page Top

#19 No argument regards the malevolence or intentions... just about whether or not it makes sense to bash Bush. Reality's a bitch - and he has to deal with it. We can putter about here and say anything - and there are no ramifications, no blowback. I believe he's doing what he can and will, in the end, decap the Mullahs and send them back to their beloved 7th century - and free the majority (?) of Iranians from Persian rule in the process.

Posted by flyover 2006-08-26 18:08|| 2006-08-26 18:08|| Front Page Top

#20 Would somebody get real? The country is not ready to take action on Iran.
The lack of preparation is the fault of our leadership. It is their job to identify the threats, devise a strategy, and provide the materiel to defeat our enemies. They are worse than useless in this case.

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 18:13|| 2006-08-26 18:13|| Front Page Top

#21 I'm with Fly - I think it will be dealt with, I just hope it's in time - W will have to do it alone (without Israel IMHO), with only Australia as foreign support. Air strikes only.

your mileage may vary

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-08-26 18:22|| 2006-08-26 18:22|| Front Page Top

#22 It's doubtful airstrikes will destroy HEU or even the mullah's government. And how do you destroy from the air the core beliefs of a predatory religion?

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 18:31|| 2006-08-26 18:31|| Front Page Top

#23 Re #20 - If TODAY is Doomsday, then you're right. It's not, so you're...

Get real, indeed. The message is constantly put out and the attempt to "educate" the US public has been going for almost 3 years - obviously not to anyone here's satisfaction. And the MAIN reason is that Bush is having to do it against the flood of BDS from almost the entire MSM. We've never had this level of subversion and Fifth Column sedition, before. It's damned tough slogging, but he hasn't given up - why have you?

Maybe you've made a damned fine case for roving mobs knocking off the seditious bastions of the media... but not for bashing Bush.

Since we don't know the timeline, how can you prove it has failed? How can you go ahead and make that claim and blame Bush? Your decision to do so is, shall we say, premature...

This bitching and blaming shit is great blog stuff, very inspiring and such, spiffy theater even, but it has no bearing whatsoever upon reality.

Posted by flyover 2006-08-26 18:45|| 2006-08-26 18:45|| Front Page Top

#24 Nevermind. Fuck it. Reality just is, as .com used to say. Deal with it. Everything is fantasyland. Just don't bitch when people point out where the border is.

I'm done. Not enough respect for reality here.

Bye.

Posted by flyover 2006-08-26 18:52|| 2006-08-26 18:52|| Front Page Top

#25 The Mullah's government will be toppled by the actions to be taken. I'd rather have W's popularity ratings than Ahmadinajihad's That is why they will focus first on sanctions, to show the Iranian people they have a pariah regime and to cut off trade, especially imports of gasoline. After that the gasoline refineries get taken out. If that isn't enough, I'd bet the planners have a series of steps to bring on civil war, including letting the Kurds loose. W has to get his ducks in a row before he starts shooting, thanks to the CIA. How about giving him a chance to do it?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-26 18:52|| 2006-08-26 18:52|| Front Page Top

#26 For Flyover, if he cares to listen. I have always supported GWB and seldom criticize him. He has been a fine president and will probably be remembered as a great one. However, he has never used the bully pulpit to educate the American people. Perhaps he started where I have ended up - I believe that it is a waste of time and energy to even try to engage the moonbats. He gets it, but it often looks like he doesn't even have complete control of the Executive branch.

This means that he will have to make the decision as president and give the order on his own authority. It needs to be before the November election, because the Trunks don't look so healthy now, and I doubt that they will find their mojo before the election. Imagine Pelosi as speaker and the troll from Detroit as Judiciary chair. Educate the Senate? LOL. I have Opie Graham for one of my senators. And McCain? He is just Clinton without the intern. He feels compelled to start talking when the refrigerator light comes on in the morning. Must have to get a lobotomy to sit in the Senate.

The 'intelligence' agencies have given us ample evidence not to rely on them or even trust that they mean well. I hope the president has an accurate picture, because a surprise here will cost a lot of American lives. Such a surprise will negate all the things that I said about the president in the first paragraph.

Posted by SR-71 2006-08-26 19:04|| 2006-08-26 19:04|| Front Page Top

#27 "The Russians are nuts..."

You noticed too?

Posted by Texas Redneck 2006-08-26 19:27|| 2006-08-26 19:27|| Front Page Top

#28 I hope the president has an accurate picture, because a surprise here will cost a lot of American lives. Such a surprise will negate all the things that I said about the president in the first paragraph

It's not for nuthin that the home of our special ops people in Iraq is close to the Iranian border.

But there's no certainty in this business. Just some important judgement calls with big risks on all sides.

May Ahmadinajad and his ilk rot in hell.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-26 19:31|| 2006-08-26 19:31|| Front Page Top

#29 Let's be realistic, the ChiComs, the Ruskies, the NoKo, and the Irants are at varying stages of war with the US.

The Ruskies are still trying to do payback for their getting thumped in Afganistan with US provided Stinger missiles.

The ChiComs are staging a long-view war, low-profile war while it builds its intelligence, weaponry, and geopolitical posture.

Both are heavily invested in an Iranian success and are hardly honest brokers on the UNSC.

Posted by Captain America 2006-08-26 20:01|| 2006-08-26 20:01|| Front Page Top

#30 Went outside to muck out the fish pond and pleased to know the debate has been continuing.

lotp,
How many troops do you think the US can put on the ground in Iran? How long do you think our stocks can support them in difficult terrain? Why is the US not building munitions stocks to fight a nation of 70 million? Why are not training more troops and, if neccessary, placing them in the reserves? How about opposition? If the Iranian mullahs were willing to lose 1 million to Iraq, how many are they willing to lose to the Great Satan's meat grinder? Remember, even though Iran has less than 1/4 the US population, has 1/2 as many 18 years olds as does the entire USA. If from the air, how many days and nights of dead babies on TV can the US take before it pulls an Israel? How are we preparing the battlefield or making allies of Iranian minority nations. If the Persians don't overthrow the mullahs, how has the administration prepared us the conquer, kill or occupy the Persians? Is the US still on the territorial integrity fantasy?

Flyover,
I think the Bush administration is very good tactically but have failed strategically. For instance I think Iraq has gone better than expected when the goal is to lead the population to democracy. The failures begin by not being able to identify who is the enemy, let alone conveying that to the American people. Is it any wonder that the US seems directionless and doesn't know how to pursue victory? Instead the US is expending resources in Afghanistan and Iraq when we should have taken Saudi Arabia in 2001, destroyed wahabism, and become the world's oil linchpin. From the very defensible Arabian peninsula, the Iranians could be taken at our leisure. Instead the US is sending out of the country $200 billion more each year for oil imports and spending $100 billion each year for little military or political gain.

Now to go cut some bushes.

Posted by ed 2006-08-26 20:17|| 2006-08-26 20:17|| Front Page Top

#31 First things first and credit given where it is due. Flyover, please keep up the good work. Your posts in this thread have been on-topic and exceedingly cogent. You have made exceptionally good points using solid logic and I cannot bring myself to snipe at what is obviously well-thought-out discourse.

Ed, thank you for modifying your original message of futility. However disappointed you or I may be with Bush, I still refuse to give up all hope that he will somehow find the wherewithal to finally confront the Iranians.

If the Iranian mullahs were willing to lose 1 million [troops] to Iraq, how many are they willing to lose to the Great Satan's meat grinder?

If you have followed my own postings regarding this, then you'll know that myself and many others here do not believe that a conflict with Iran will involve troops at all. Iran is simply too vast and possesses extremely varied terrain, including numerous mountain ranges. A land battle is entirely out of the question.

Beyond that, as I have also mentioned, I feel that the era of nation-building is over and done with. Especially so in Iran's case. Our only obligation is to go in and cripple Iran to whatever degree we deem necessary or whatever we can achieve given the circumstances. Of course, it is my hope that we can incite a complete and total overthrow of the mullahs, but I will settle for at least temporarily neutering Iran militarily.

The lack of support America faces in this, combined with the incredibly mercenary (and even predatory), self-interest being exhibited by foe and ally alike make this particular foray fraught with tremendously thorny ramifications. That said, I do not believe that we have sufficient leeway to permit these implications to substantially alter the complexion of this case. The threat of Iran's accession to nuclear weapons is simply too dire for us to allow any economic propwash to hobble our priorities.

Carry on. I am so enjoying this thread. This is what Rantburg is all about.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-26 20:50|| 2006-08-26 20:50|| Front Page Top

#32 I agree with much of the frustration, but I think at least SR-71 is misreading the domestic situation. Clear-eyed observers like Jay Cost are predicting fairly small GOP midterm losses, with little chance of actually losing either house. (Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the Repubs actually netted a Senate seat.)

Bush doesn't want to disrupt this outcome, so. isn't likely to show any real aggression until after election day. Unless his hand is forced, of course...

Posted by JSU 2006-08-26 20:58|| 2006-08-26 20:58|| Front Page Top

#33 Nice stuff, flyover. Rational and reasoned. Word, in fact, except for the leaving part. Don't give up on the 'Burg. It's Saturday - many regulars aren't around to chime in. You are definitely NOT alone. Frank and NS and lotp didn't fear the spittle or the bandwagon effect of righteous ranting, however misdirected, and neither do I. In fact, you've brought me out of hibernation, today. Stay the course, as Bush is doing.

Heavy sigh. I kinda liked lurking. This is how I see it, for what it's worth.

It is up to us. We have the power to decide who will lead the fight for our lives and our way of life... as well as those legislators who will either support those leaders or try to subvert and dilute the effort, whatever their motives. Everything pivots on our domestic politics.

Putting our money and efforts behind the good ones, the ones who aren't gutless turds who triangulate Moonbat-style against the very source of the freedoms they enjoy, who don't pray to their secular Gawd for more American dead so they can posture a claim for a return to power, who aren't tools of Stalinist propaganda bullshit designed to destroy us from within, who aren't anti-American Tranzis who lack the balls to even protect their own citizens, much less meet the threat of IslamoNazism, who hate themselves so much they work toward their own doom - and hope to drag us down with them, who have never had to defend anything and project their own fears as fear-mongering by those who have sacrificed for the American Way, who aren't worth warm spit as citizens and don't produce even a fraction of what they consume and presume is their birthright, who deserve no quarter and will cower before the righteous when the Day of Retribution cometh, is our charge. Do it and American can survive. Fail, and we are indeed in the deepest kimchi. Personally, the impeachment circus that would follow a shift in the House to the Dhimmis would cripple us in the WoT - though it would probably result in a Pubbie Prez in 2008 as the backlash caught up. There'd be a shitload of "Oh fuck!" realizations among those who sat out November. There's damned little comfort in that, however.

Many seem eager to punish Bush, because of failing to meet their personal expectations, for not chiming in on their personal pet peeve - immigration or whatever. Many think he can just whack Iran if it suits him. Almost (?) as many want to impeach him for simply trying to protect us in obviously constitutional efforts. Go figure, eh? I'd say he does have just about the toughest uphill battle imaginable - on all issues - and the ankle-biting doesn't help - it makes it even harder.

Sure, I have issues with him, too, I have quibbles and complaints which are VERY important and MUST be addressed NOW. Goddamned slacker! Bash that bitch! Lol. Yeah, right. I should run for Prez so I can teach those DhimmiDonks a lesson or three and whack all the judges who choose to ignore their oaths, the constitution, existing law, and promote their agendas... and I'd thump the NYT, et al, for being seditious asshats, frog-marching Pinchy off to prison for starters... and blow Hell out of the Mullahs yesterday. Those McInerny aimpoints have been very carefully chosen - and those Pentagon planners know far more than we do about where, when, and how to bring Iran low... and release lotsa groovy footage of pinpoint Mullah vaporization. It'd be easy, I'd just issue the orders and then go clear some brush at the ranch. While there I'd kick off my plan to lay waste to the US Senate and frog-march Kennedy and Kerry, et al, off via the 6 o'clock news... Fuck it, I'm the Prez. It's my party, I can kill if I want to. Best guess: I'd last about a week before being impeached - maybe a month before being convicted - and back on the street, lol.

The consequences of ignoring the political reality. The one we can ignore, but Bush must deal with.

IWWIWWIWI*. The war-cry (read: tantrum) of the brave 3 yr old. "Waaaaa! Bush didn't do everything my way! Bush didn't meet my schedule! Bush is shit! Everything he did is shit! Wotta bum! Throw him out! Throw all of them out!" Sad that this seems acceptable nowadays. Aw hell, let's call a spade a spade: it's fucking pathetic. Reminiscent of the Firesign classic: "What have you done for me, lately." Pfeh. It's futile and short-sighted. It's cowardice when resolve is most needed.

Stick around, flyover. The "fun" has been underway for years - and will continue for a few more, methinks. You're just a little too nice is all. Get meaner and nastier, like the opposition. I'll lose some "friends" for truth-telling, but hey, I think it's important. Go ahead and call stupid cliff-jumping behavior what it is: thoughtless posturing... or is it just frustration release? Whatever, it's obviously disingenuous and misdirected - thus more harmful than helpful. That's the simple truth of it, no matter how good it feels to post it. I can handle folks letting off steam, but the anger should, at the very least, be directed where it belongs. In this case, it's our internal enemies in the MSM and the Congress who are attempting to further isolate Bush and make what needs to be done seem unnecessary, outrageously unilateral, dangerous - all that Tranzi and Stalinist agitprop. I look forward to the day that we drop the pretenses and starting laying waste to the internal enemies - take that how you wish, lol.

We will take on the threats as they bubble to the fore in lethality and danger. Today / soon, the Mullahs - with the Syrians and Hezb's and more in the bargain. This is one of the few engagements I can see that can actually be decisively handled via air power and minimal boots. We can set them back, at the least, and probably get regime change, too. It depends upon when and how - and I trust those guys at the Pentagon know this. Lotsa serendipitous bonus points in a minimal boots success, given our current situation. Tomorrow, the Saudis, with the PakiWakis and Hamas and Wahhabist funding of hate centers across the world in the bargain. Next Golden Dragon HS - that will be an interesting game. The Russkies will be marginalized along the way - they've made it clear enough that they're triangulating whores. Lol, our dance card is booked for a coupla decades. It sure would make the going easier, the footing would be far more sure if we cleaned up here at home, first. That's where the rub is, IMO. I'm rather bloody-minded about this, in fact, watering the Tree of Liberty bloody. I've got a prioritized list, should the WH ask... Lol, I'm just saying...

Stay cool, flyover, you're a welcome voice to many, I believe. Most certainly to me. I, too, value ed's and SR-71's comments. I've been catching up on months of events and commentary and find real value from both. But not on this topic. Here, they have decided to abandon the only hope they have, the only hope that we have, of stopping the greatest terror threat we've even seen: Mullahs with nukes. As you said, it ain't over, yet. The Day has not come, so the final word has not been written. I trust Bush will be Bush - and keep his word: Iran must not have nukes. Whatever it takes. He's the first politician in my lifetime who even comes close to deserving such high praise and trust.

To ed and SR-71, please accept my comments as intended - honest and unvarnished disagreement on the most important issue to come along in my lifetime. It's my "style". If I've overstated your positions or misread you, then I apologize. Otherwise, if my comments are unacceptable to you, well, such is life in the blogosphere - I simply cannot apologize for telling the truth as I see it. I can only wonder when, and why, good folks started giving up when there is no substantive evidence, no reason beyond growing frustration (we're obviously not very good at waiting and trusting), for doing so. As for the last comment, ed, You are still discounting the complicity of the enemies within, IMO, and expecting Bush to magically overcome the endless BDS diatribe. As for whacking the Saudis, lol, I'm sure with you there, Bro. The Iranian nuke program came to light since I last opined on how to deal with the Saudis, and the Mullahs have leap-frogged them into the #1 position for action. The obvious part, to us and the Bush admin as well, has to be that dealing with the problem, not the symptoms (e.g. Syria) is the right move. Bringing the public along to accept the threat reality is the toughest chore on the list. Damned-near everyone is working against Bush. November is where we, the sheeple, can do something about it. Just preventing the loss of the House and/or Senate would send a surprising message of realism to them both - and might force them off the Kool Aid and cowardly BDS / RINO triangulation rampant now. It seems everyone has bought into the "The House is lost!" meme - which can become self-fulfilling if not proven wrong by the only poll that counts. Flyover's right - November is where the rubber meets the road. If the House goes Dhimmidonk then we automatically lose 2 years - and that's 2 years of the best hope we have: Bush.

To lotp - I agree with your comments, both here and on the other thread - re: the economic effects, which Ahmedjihadi couldn't care less about, it must be a factor in our equation - but it cannot be deemed greater than allowing them to acquire nukes. Perhaps the timing is, indeed, one of the issues being factored in. If we can think of it, then it's a certainty that Bush & Co have.

To Zenster - I agree with your post on the other thread, but this comment came out TODAY. Let the effect be felt, be absorbed, be used to lever the Senate off its collective ass. I believe there is time for this to happen, assuming the Dhimmidonks don't control the House or Senate after November. If they do or if I'm wrong, then the issue is already decided and we will have to rely upon Bush entirely. Yeah, I don't like it either, but that's why he was elected - to make the hard choices - though we didn't know it at the time in 2000. If Iran is allowed to go nuclear, the blame belongs to the US Senate and to the gutless, don't worry, be happy, electorate. May our internal enemies roast in Hell, too. I'd sure like to help with that, lol, for that is where Bush is being stymied and demonized in hopes of preventing him from acting - hell, all of the important issues we face. I like your #31, too. Well said. We're all in this together - and I do believe this is one of those "it's for all the marbles" moments. May we have the fortitude and resolve to face it head-on.

To Shieldwolf on the other thread. Word, Bro. You nailed it.

Sheesh. I've left out tons of relevant shit, but I'm tired. So sue me, lol. November. Everything hinges on November.

Please direct comments to the topic, not to me - I won't answer them. This is the most important shit in the world, IMO.

Okay, I'm done. For now. Back into the well, lol.

*IWWIWWIWI - I Want What I Want When I Want It.

Posted by .com 2006-08-26 21:03|| 2006-08-26 21:03|| Front Page Top

#34 PD ....*tears up* ..... I missed you

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-08-26 21:16|| 2006-08-26 21:16|| Front Page Top

#35 Hey Sweetie .com! Yea..... good to see you! Stay close.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2006-08-26 21:18|| 2006-08-26 21:18|| Front Page Top

#36 .com - you're back!!

Hallellujah!

We've missed you and been worried about you, darlin'. How are you doing? (I won't ask ~~who~~ what you've been doing. ;-p)

Now if TGA would just come back....

Now I'll go back and actually read your post, .com. :-D

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2006-08-26 21:23|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html] 2006-08-26 21:23|| Front Page Top

#37 Welcome back, .com.

re: the economic effects, which Ahmedjihadi couldn't care less about, it must be a factor in our equation - but it cannot be deemed greater than allowing them to acquire nukes.

Absolutely agree on that.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-26 21:29|| 2006-08-26 21:29|| Front Page Top

#38 Back into the well, lol.

Bah! Don't do it .com. You are both sorely needed and missed hereabouts, by myself included. It's good to know that you're all right and I hope all is well with you. trailing wife has been taking up the slack in the troll-skinning department, but your pyrotechnics will always take the prize.

My education continues here at Rantburg. I cannot thank you enough for your eye-opener about the role Moderate Muslims play in "where jihadis come from." That single rant of yours forever changed my position on Islam and continues to serve me in good stead as I very slowly convert some of the liberals I know over to understanding the Islamofascist threat.

Stick around, buddy. Your post was a real breath of fresh air.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-26 21:34|| 2006-08-26 21:34|| Front Page Top

#39 Hey .com long time no see missed you. :)

Posted by djohn66 2006-08-26 21:37|| 2006-08-26 21:37|| Front Page Top

#40 Absolutely agree on that.

Cool beans, lotp. Then I see no great disparity in our mutual views.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-26 21:46|| 2006-08-26 21:46|| Front Page Top

#41 Welcome back com. Glad whatever happened to you has been overcome enough to post.

While at it check out Dan D's new forum.

Posted by 3dc 2006-08-26 22:11|| 2006-08-26 22:11|| Front Page Top

#42 Welcome back, .com. Pop over to the O-Club and have one on my free drink chit. Hell, have several.

Posted by Mike 2006-08-26 22:43|| 2006-08-26 22:43|| Front Page Top

#43 We could have had the winning hand in the coming nuclear burn-fest, but chose to do politics instead. Adios.

Posted by (at) Asymmetrical Triangulation (at) 2006-08-26 22:49|| 2006-08-26 22:49|| Front Page Top

#44 Hey, .com, good to hear you. Hope to see more as time allows.

Posted by SR-71 2006-08-26 22:53|| 2006-08-26 22:53|| Front Page Top

#45 Goddamit to Hell, .com. Do NOT Do Things Like That. Everyone here was worried about you! People even accused random anonymous strangers of being you in disguise.

*deep breath* *another deep breath*

Ok, I'm glad it's over, whatever it was. I'll be good now. Welcome back, .com! There's tea in the O Club if you would like some. And the really good champagne for everyone else. [I'm going to have to be really, really, really good with my housekeeping budget all the rest of the year for this! Definitely playing against my strengths here, darn it!]

I'll join Barbara and go back and read your post now.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-08-26 23:05|| 2006-08-26 23:05|| Front Page Top

#46 Whoa! A trailing wife spanking. You really rate, .com.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-26 23:14|| 2006-08-26 23:14|| Front Page Top

#47 Damn, lol, you're a buncha hard-headed folks! I'm embarrased that the topic (focus, people, focus!) isn't being addressed - and I can't think of anything more important at this moment. Thx for the welcome, lol, now get back to work whooping up on IslamoNazis, Tranzis, Stalinists, and Lefty Moonbats! :-)

Posted by .com 2006-08-26 23:30|| 2006-08-26 23:30|| Front Page Top

#48 #47 .com: "now get back to work whooping up on IslamoNazis, Tranzis, Stalinists, and Lefty Moonbats"

You're not from the South, are you, honey?

That's "whupping," not "whooping." We'll whoop when they're whupped.

/nitpick mode ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2006-08-26 23:36|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html] 2006-08-26 23:36|| Front Page Top

#49 Is Texas Southern enough? Whoopass, whupass, you're not trying to tell me spelling has become important on RB are ya? Lol, that'll be the day! :-D

Posted by .com 2006-08-26 23:41|| 2006-08-26 23:41|| Front Page Top

#50 Thanks for the vote of confidence, .com. I guess frustration is the real problem, but I just can't see how all of it can be pinned on Bush - he has to fight off most of the world in everything he tries to do. And I believe he'll be there for us, no matter what it demands of him - including sacrificing himself.

Posted by flyover 2006-08-26 23:47|| 2006-08-26 23:47|| Front Page Top

#51 What he sayed!

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-08-26 23:50|| www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]">[www.sockpuppetofdoom.com] 2006-08-26 23:50|| Front Page Top

#52 Damn glad to hear from you .com.

I myself have made a stupid comment or three about Bush - mostly in frustation. But I think he is the best man we have for the job at hand. Honest, Stright-dealing, and just right. I think flyover's comments at the time help strighten me out :)

In reality I think he is keeping his eye on the ball and not allowing himself to be distracted by secondary issues. Immigation is being attended to - it isn't what we like but I think its what he can get. The NYT treasons are being investigated. The blogshere is busting open the MSM and exposing their staged scenes and bias (Bush can't confront the MSM directly).

The Israel-Lebanon war didn't turn out quite the way we like but it did help expose the MSM's flat out bias and place the U.N. front and center stage.

So things are progressing (at least in my view).

Posted by CrazyFool 2006-08-26 23:51|| 2006-08-26 23:51|| Front Page Top

23:55 tu3031
23:51 CrazyFool
23:50 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:47 flyover
23:41 .com
23:41 RWV
23:41 Barbara Skolaut
23:38 Barbara Skolaut
23:36 Barbara Skolaut
23:30 .com
23:29 Barbara Skolaut
23:26 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:24 Mike
23:14 Zenster
23:10 anymouse
23:05 trailing wife
23:02 anymouse
22:54 trailing wife
22:53 SR-71
22:49 (at) Asymmetrical Triangulation (at)
22:43 Mike
22:36 CrazyFool
22:36 Frank G
22:32 phil_b