Article

2005-09-14 Home Front: Culture Wars

Lawmaker Blasted as 'Islamophobic' for Criticizing Memorial Design

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve 2005-09-14 09:34|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 In Colorado, there is still debate over a proper memorial for Columbine.
In the spirit of the Flight 93 Memorial, I have proposed that the Columbine Memorial be a kid in a black trenchcoat with a gun in his hand.
After all, we don't want to exclude members of the Black Trenchcoated-American community.

Posted by dushan 2005-09-14 10:26|| 2005-09-14 10:26|| Front Page Top

#2 In other news Rep Tom Tancredo asked that when New Orleans is rebuilt, it no longer be called "the crescent city". And that amtrak not run "the southern crescent".

Cmon, if a liberal had said something this silly, about a symbol being offensive, we'd all be talking about what silly PCness it was. And rightly so.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 11:29|| 2005-09-14 11:29|| Front Page Top

#3 LH,

Source, please.

If he said that, then you're right: it's stupid.

Posted by Dreadnought 2005-09-14 11:37|| 2005-09-14 11:37|| Front Page Top

#4 Maple trees are green, aren't they? Except in the fall when they turn red.
Steve, your point stands, but there will be two rows of RED maples forming the crescent. I have one in front of my house. It's dark red in summer and is now turning a dark green. Beautiful tree.

Posted by GK 2005-09-14 11:48|| 2005-09-14 11:48|| Front Page Top

#5 Um... it's a freaking red crescent as a memorial for an airplane crash.... The first thing I though of was an islamic crescent. The second thing I thought of was an impact crater. Both are repulsive.

Posted by Mark E. 2005-09-14 11:48|| 2005-09-14 11:48|| Front Page Top

#6 The 9-11 memorials are all disgusting, self hating crap. Time to kill the planners and heap their dead bodies in piles. That would be a better monument that the crap they come up with.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-09-14 12:30|| 2005-09-14 12:30|| Front Page Top

#7 Rantburg is the best memorial to 9-11 I've seen yet, pointing the bloody finger of blame right at ~~Mecca~~ Riyadh.

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2005-09-14 12:33|| 2005-09-14 12:33|| Front Page Top

#8 It wasn't that long ago in Berlin that a number of trees in a forested patch were removed. A number of a certain type of trees had been planted either in the 1930s or 1940s in the shape of a giant swastika. In the Fall, the leaves would turn a pronounced red-like color that brought out the swastika shape amongst the surrounding different type of trees with green leaves. One could only observe this living monument to Nazism. From what I heard, this living monument was finally altered about 15 years ago. If this living crescent-like monument goes through, and it offends the generations to come, be assured that it too will disappear and be replaced by something compassionately complimentary for a memorial and not caustically contraversial. No one wants to honor the brave victims of this ungodly crime with fractious fighting and friction. Can you imagine what would happen if the memorial was shaped into a cross-like design? The anti-American ACLU and left coasties would have a cow! The true Americans of this great country are being over-run by mealy mouthed ingrates with no heart or soul and brainless to boot! Behold this fine trash dressed up in the robes of judges, lawyers, teachers and politicians! The anti-Americans proceed to trash this country and in time the true Americans will have had enough and have to unite against this trash. Hell.. illegal immigrants show more respect for this country than these a**holes.

Posted by Fun Dung Poo 2005-09-14 12:52|| 2005-09-14 12:52|| Front Page Top

#9 LH - if your vague reference was to Tancredo's comment - you have my wholehearted opposition. He's on the mark

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-09-14 12:55|| 2005-09-14 12:55|| Front Page Top

#10 "Did You Know...

Use motor oil may be used to fertilize your lawn?"

(no it can't) With apologies to Fight Club.

Posted by Mark E. 2005-09-14 13:13|| 2005-09-14 13:13|| Front Page Top

#11 A crescent is a crescent is a crescent. Apart from our usual argument about whether the Salafist ideology of the terrs is "true" Islam, the fact is that the crescent is not JUST an Islamic symbol - the crescent moon is part of western culture (and no, the buddist use of swastikas isnt equivalent, since most victims of the Nazis werent Buddists)

I mean Tancredos insistence that there is something "islamic" about a memorial in a crescent shape is on par with Farrakan deciding that the Washington monument has something to do with a Klansman.

Should we not have crosses at memorials to victims of the Nazis (many of whom were Christians) because the cross was used as a symbol by the Germans during the 3rd reich? Are 5 pointed stars to be excluded from memorials to the victims of Stalinism? Or anything red? Should anything shaped like the cross of St Andrew be excluded from memorials about slavery in the US?

Cmon, what Tancredo is doing is pure PC BS.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 13:25|| 2005-09-14 13:25|| Front Page Top

#12 How do you write "fuck you" in Arabic? That'd make a nice design, I bet...

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-09-14 13:43|| 2005-09-14 13:43|| Front Page Top

#13 Let me try to understand your reasoning LH. You state the use of swastikas are not appropriate for use at Jewish memorials.
the buddist use of swastikas isnt equivalent, since most victims of the Nazis werent Buddists

But you have no proplem with the use of the crescent, the unversally recognized symbol of islam, at the Flight 93 memorial.

Should we not have crosses at memorials to victims of the Nazis
How about no swastikas at memorials to victims of the Nazis and no crescents at memorials to victims of the islamists.

Posted by ed 2005-09-14 13:43|| 2005-09-14 13:43|| Front Page Top

#14 I take your point LH but why didn't the artist pick a different shape? I honestly think that this is an attempt by the memorial's designer to be "deep" and "thoughtful" about the tragedy by evoking an Islamic holy symbol. "Thought provoking irony" is pretty much the artistic trend at the moment, if I am not mistaken.

Posted by Secret Master 2005-09-14 13:58|| 2005-09-14 13:58|| Front Page Top

#15 LH, you're missing the point. How would you feel about a Holocaust Memorial that, when viewed from above, was shaped like a swastika?

What if a new museum built at Bergen-Belsen were in that shape? What if the long portion of one arm was found to point directly towards Hitler's birthplace?

Cmon, what Tancredo is doing is pure PC BS.

Project much?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-09-14 14:12|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-09-14 14:12|| Front Page Top

#16 Symbols in art are intentional. The reverent use of the symbol of Islam in this memorial to those murdered in Islamic jihadi attacks on 9/11 isn't coincidental. It's a deliberate political pitch that Islam should have a place of honor at the site of the murder, that the crimes done in the name of Islam don't accurately represent Islam, that we must forgive and forget, and that we must incorporate this Islamic imagery into the memorial as part of the healing process and to show that we are all one happy world, living together in harmony.

In the words of a rantburg regular,
Never forgive, never forget.

I'm really starting to like this Tancredo fellow.

Posted by jules 2 2005-09-14 14:15|| 2005-09-14 14:15|| Front Page Top

#17 Sounds like LH might think it's OK to use a swastika shape in a memorial to holocaust victims.

Posted by intrinsicpilot 2005-09-14 14:25|| 2005-09-14 14:25|| Front Page Top

#18 The families of the flight 93 hero's should be the final arbiters of the design.

No "The Crescent of Embrace", I trust.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-09-14 14:38|| 2005-09-14 14:38|| Front Page Top

#19 "the crescent of embrace: just what exactly are we embracing here?

Someone on LGF made a good point. The crescent design should stand, as a symbol to remind people what (and who) was responsible for this attack.

BTW, this memorial shouldn't be "a memorial to the 40 people who died when Flight 93 crashed in a Pennsylvania farm field on Sept. 11", but "a memorial to the people on flight 93. They were attacked. They fought back."

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-14 16:10|| 2005-09-14 16:10|| Front Page Top

#20 "a memorial to the people on flight 93, for fighting back while under attack"

Sounds better.

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-14 16:12|| 2005-09-14 16:12|| Front Page Top

#21 I propose instead of using Maple trees, we form the crescent with gallows. We'll hang say, 40 jihadi's daily there, until the War On Terror is won.

Terrorists/Unlawful combatants may be executed out of hand when taken prisoner under the Geneva Convention. If we run out of jihadi's from overseas, we have enough here to keep going.

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2005-09-14 17:05|| 2005-09-14 17:05|| Front Page Top

#22 "But you have no proplem with the use of the crescent, the unversally recognized symbol of islam, at the Flight 93 memorial"

Good night room. Good night moon. Good night cow, jumping OVER the moon.

I guess i just didnt realize I was promoting Islam when I was reading to that to my kid. (and yes, it had pictures of the crescent moon)

I guess we'd better forget about the South Carolina state flag while we're at it, huh?

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 17:16|| 2005-09-14 17:16|| Front Page Top

#23 oh, Crescent township Pennsylvania will have to change its name.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 17:17|| 2005-09-14 17:17|| Front Page Top

#24
"Through the gesture of embrace, a curving landform formally designates the edge of the Bowl. The shape enhances the form and monumental scale of the Bowl to commemorate the heroic actions of the passengers and crew of Flight 93. An allee of Red Maple trees gently descends around the Bowl, crossing the wetlands, to the focal point of the Bowl, the Sacred Ground. Behind the walkway occur forty groves of Sugar and Red Maples and a ring road that leads to parking near the Sacred Ground. Visitors can formally start their walk by ascending a ramp that allows views into the Visitor Center. Pedestrian trails through the Bowl offer a variety of entrance and exit routes to and from the Sacred Ground. Lighting at night supports the walkway through recessed lights in the radiating markers that face the Bowl. Benches along the allee have a recessed source to illuminate the path and each of their radiating extensions through the groves are terminated at the ring road with a pole-mounted downlight."

I guess they thought of it as a curving land form, not a "crescent" I guess curving land forms are out.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 17:25|| 2005-09-14 17:25|| Front Page Top

#25 "It's powerful but understated," said Kiki Homer, whose brother, LeRoy W. Homer Jr., was co-pilot on the plane that crashed after passengers rebelled against terrorist hijackers. "It's beautifully simple.

"My breath is taken away."

Esther Heymann, whose daughter, Elizabeth Wainio, died in the crash, agreed.

"The understatement speaks to the profoundness of what occurred here," she said.

According to jurors who chose the winner, it offers "tranquility, beauty and silence. It will be a place for everyone who visits to feel the spirits of the 40 heroes in the whisper of the trees and honor their unselfish sacrifice of their lives to preserve the lives of countless many."

I guess Tancredo understands the design better than these folks though.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 17:28|| 2005-09-14 17:28|| Front Page Top

#26 But go ahead and talk about Tom Tancredo as much as you can. He cause Bush and Frist headaches, much as Mckinney does for Hillary and Biden.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-09-14 17:30|| 2005-09-14 17:30|| Front Page Top

#27 LH, have it your way then. Since the swastika was an ancient symbol before the Nazis appropriated it, then I submit that the next Holocaust memorial be shaped in said shape. It would be so artistically intriguing, no?

I swear, LH, sometimes you seem like a triangle with all obtuse angles. Or maybe you just have that childhood oppositional disorder I read about yesterday. ODD, I believe they called it.

Posted by SLO Jim 2005-09-14 17:31|| 2005-09-14 17:31|| Front Page Top

#28 NOT every reference to a crescent involves Islam. However, EVERY use of a red crescent in a monument for an event involving Islam DOES NECESSARILY refer to Islam, at least on a symbolic level.

Calling a city the Crescent City doesnt refer to Islam. However, if you were to refer to Mecca as a city under the crescent, don't you think that the use of the crescent is a symbol of Islam? It is the contextual involvement of Islam which gives that particular symbol this meaning in that situation. Mecca being a place of importance to Islam, the crescent being it symbol. The hijacking being an act of Islamic terror, the crescent being the symbol of the very group that perpetrated the act.

The only way that this could be defended as having no symbolic value is if Islam were not involved; if there was no religious motivation to the hijacking. Undoubtedly some believe that to be true....

Posted by Mark E. 2005-09-14 17:40|| 2005-09-14 17:40|| Front Page Top

#29 LH quit being a Drip, please.

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-09-14 18:12|| 2005-09-14 18:12|| Front Page Top

#30 LH - bite my crescent moon. You protest too much - caught in a bad move, you project and blather. No crescents. Tancredo's not liberal enough for you? Don't vote for him. Just thank him when the borders' finally secure. Hawk only overseas, I see

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-09-14 18:25|| 2005-09-14 18:25|| Front Page Top

#31

Why is everyone so concerned about what CAIR says, or to consider their opinions about anything? Have you really looked into the kind of organization CAIR really is? Below is a link to see the real CAIR. Thank God for Tancredo, he speaks his mind and is dead on usually. He has taken the unpopular stance many times here in Colorado, so I don't think he's making his remarks to be PC in any way.

"Not surprisingly, CAIR also backs those who finance terrorism. When President Bush closed the Holy Land Foundation in December for collecting money he said was "used to support the Hamas terror organization," CAIR decried his action as "unjust" and "disturbing.""

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/394

Posted by Jan 2005-09-14 18:47|| 2005-09-14 18:47|| Front Page Top

#32 The best monument Flight 93 could have would be a piece of legislation known as the Muslim Exclusion Act banning the immigration of all Muslims in perpetuity and expelling those already here.

Posted by mac 2005-09-14 19:16|| 2005-09-14 19:16|| Front Page Top

#33 LH,

If we were attacked on Sept. 11 by jumping cows, then yes, moons (crescent or otherwise), cowbells and udders would be an insult at a memorial to those who gave their lives fighting that evil. Context is what matters LH, and we were attacked in the most vile manner by ISLAMISTS, not cowists.

For more context, I remind you of the hijacking of the World Trade Center Memorial by the multicultural, moneyed, and artistic rabble: Hijacking the WTC Memorial
But as Debra Burlingame reports, instead of tributes to the 9/11 victims, the exhibits will consist of testimonies to man's inhumanity to man, including lots of samples of America's misdeeds, from Jim Crow lynchings to Abu Ghraib. The IFC will have 300,000 square feet. The Memorial Center, which will house artifacts of the attacks, will have a mere 50,000 square feet. Ironically, those taking the lead in planning and funding the International Freedom Center are leftwing activists, including billionaire George Soros and Tom Bernstein, the head of the project. He is a member of Human Rights First, the organization that has been filing lawsuits on behalf of dirty bomber Jose Padilla, the Guantanamo detainees, and the prisoners of Abu Ghraib.

So there is already a precedence of rich multicultural subversives trying to hijack and turn the 911 memorial into a concrete expression of their contempt. Of course it was camouflaged with beautiful and gilded words, but most Americans recognize horse manure when we smell it. And we have it happening again in Pennsylvania, only not quite as in-your-face this time. Open your nostrils LH and smell the manure emanating from a Pennsylvania pasture.

By your argument LH, is it appropriate to have a swastika at the Holocaust memorial? After all, the swastika is a revered symbol in many cultures.

Posted by ed 2005-09-14 19:56|| 2005-09-14 19:56|| Front Page Top

#34 By your argument LH, is it appropriate to have a swastika at the Holocaust memorial?

By his argument, it is.

Posted by Rafael 2005-09-14 21:26|| 2005-09-14 21:26|| Front Page Top

#35 FLNI_Superintendent@nps.gov

if you want to let them know what you think :-)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-09-14 22:40|| 2005-09-14 22:40|| Front Page Top

#36 Hat tip: A CLASS=ED HREF='http://michellemalkin.com/'> Michelle Malkin<

WASHINGTON - The architect of the memorial to a plane downed in western Pennsylvania on Sept. 11, 2001, said Wednesday he would work to satisfy critics who complained that it honors terrorists with its crescent-shaped design.
Designer Paul Murdoch said he is "somewhat optimistic" that the spirit of the design could be maintained.

"It's a disappointment there is a misinterpretation and a simplistic distortion of this, but if that is a public concern, then that is something we will look to resolve in a way that keeps the essential qualities," Murdoch, 48, of Los Angeles, said in a telephone interview.

Posted by Glert Throluque8751 2005-09-14 23:08|| 2005-09-14 23:08|| Front Page Top

#37 ooops

Hat tip: Michelle Malkin

WASHINGTON - The architect of the memorial to a plane downed in western Pennsylvania on Sept. 11, 2001, said Wednesday he would work to satisfy critics who complained that it honors terrorists with its crescent-shaped design.
Designer Paul Murdoch said he is "somewhat optimistic" that the spirit of the design could be maintained.

"It's a disappointment there is a misinterpretation and a simplistic distortion of this, but if that is a public concern, then that is something we will look to resolve in a way that keeps the essential qualities," Murdoch, 48, of Los Angeles, said in a telephone interview.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-09-14 23:11|| 2005-09-14 23:11|| Front Page Top

#38 I'm glad they're changing it. It was a terrible idea. Anything would be better, unless the new design is in the shape of a bullseye.

Posted by Baba Tutu 2005-09-14 23:22|| 2005-09-14 23:22|| Front Page Top

#39 Good news. Vigilant citizens 2 - Subversives 0. At least the Pentagon memorial didn't have to go through this BS.

Posted by ed 2005-09-14 23:26|| 2005-09-14 23:26|| Front Page Top

#40 same atention and outrage for the "Peace Museum" at the WTC site....hijacked by globalists and anti-WOT apologists. Tenacious attention will keep these moonbats at bay. Emails and phone calls to your elected reps seals the deal (except Pelosi's district, etc)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-09-14 23:27|| 2005-09-14 23:27|| Front Page Top

23:52 Abd Al-Sabour Shahin
23:49 Angie Schultz
23:47 Pappy
23:38 Red Dog
23:37 Frank G
23:27 Phil Fraering
23:27 Frank G
23:26 ed
23:22 Baba Tutu
23:17 Red Dog
23:17 Jackal
23:15 Frank G
23:13 Frank G
23:11 Red Dog
23:09 JOsephMendiola
23:08 Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom
23:08 Glert Throluque8751
23:04 closedanger
23:01 JOsephMendiola
23:00 closedanger
22:58 closedanger
22:53 closedanger
22:42 closedanger
22:40 Frank G