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2006-09-16 Home Front: Culture Wars
Benedict's Boffo Bust of Islam - Please Bear With Me
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Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 02:23|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Please bear with me, this is extremely important to me and quite long.

However much I may dislike certain aspects of the Catholic Church, it is absolutely impossible for me not to admire Pope Benedict’s recent actions. Were I unable to concede the critical importance of his current stand against Islam's lack of religious freedom plus its policy of forcible conversion and capital punishment of apostasy, it would invalidate much of my personal position regarding the war on Islamic terrorism.

Pope Benedict has made himself a magnet for the slings and arrows of Islamic furor. Regardless of how incumbent it is upon him to decry any threat to his global flock, the courage he displays in adopting this high profile stance against such a volatile and readily angered foe as Islam can only be a favorable reflection of how devoted he is to his savior, Jesus Christ.

It is impossible to imagine that Pope Benedict is unaware of how dangerous his projected sojourn to Turkey might prove. Suffice to say that Pope John Paul II’s would-be assassin was Turkish. None of this can have possibly escaped Benedict’s notice. Still, I do not find it likely, nor do I expect, any cancellation of his scheduled trip there next November. Even now there have been protests regarding his words, both in Turkey and elsewhere.

As I give this issue deeper consideration, it goes to the very bedrock of my personal scientific agnosticism. I refuse to believe in a malevolent God. No such thing could exist in this incredibly fecund and intensely beautiful universe. While I personally question that Jesus was the direct progeny of God or another manifestation of Same, Christ’s existence as a human being is entirely without question. Nor is the ultimate wisdom of much that he preached.

If Pope Benedict is the chief shepherd of Christ’s flock on earth, he is equally bound to be the focal point of any accompanying religious dispute. This he has done and it can only lend credit to his religious vision. Most of you here are already well aware of my opinion regarding Islam. Therefore, it should be quite clear that I view Christianity and its reformation away from any governmental role, as having given it proper place as a benevolent spiritual guidepost. That Islam does not eschew such theocracy and, indeed, blatantly refuses to do so and instead glorifies religious autocracy, most definitely differentiates it from Christian theistic doctrine in general. This is entirely without respect to any mutual Abrahamic origin or regard.

As so many of you here have observed, there has been a personal shift, on my part, over to disbelief in moderate Islam. I hope it is increasingly clear that my regard for more benevolent faiths has proportionally expanded. My respect for Christianity has done such and especially so in this most dire hour. If there is a vision of God, it must be one of a loving deity, be it cosmic muffin but most definitely not hairy thunderer. God cannot possibly be of such a fragile ego as to take umbrage against those who might doubt His existence or refuse to fight His wars. As Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti said, “What use have I got for a God that needs me to fight His battles?”.

Please know that, in my own personal view, Pope Benedict goes forth as the primal sacrificial lamb. I think that he knowingly does so. I wish no harm upon him as he does this. What I do anticipate is that the relentlessly murderous nature of Islam will literally guarantee that the Pope might likely be harmed or killed.

If or when this occurs, there may well be an actual Holy war. If so, Islam will have sought it out and nearly begged for it in the process. Should such an event come to pass, it will be Islam’s fault entirely and Christianity must have no compunctions about what sort of threat confronts it.

I give these meager words of encouragement to you who kneel before the cross. Please know that my own agnostic questions will not and cannot interfere with how I view the validity of your cause. Pope Benedict has, almost beforehand, seemingly given himself up to martyrdom in its most pure definition. If such an undeserving fate awaits him, please know that I shall mourn with all of you in his passing.

We are on the brink of Holy war, all at the behest of Islam. May Islam rot in everlasting hell.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 02:40||   2006-09-16 02:40|| Front Page Top

#2 >>>
It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades.
>>>

Or even the Spanish Inquisition. Remember, No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Posted by Hupailing Ebbuns2352 2006-09-16 02:53||   2006-09-16 02:53|| Front Page Top

#3 Very, very eloquent, Zen. I can add nothing except "ditto". You have articulated my own thoughts with exceptional clarity.
Posted by Scooter McGruder 2006-09-16 02:53||   2006-09-16 02:53|| Front Page Top

#4 >>>
It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades.
>>>

Or even the Spanish Inquisition. Remember, No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Posted by Hupailing Ebbuns2352 2006-09-16 02:56||   2006-09-16 02:56|| Front Page Top

#5 If the criticism of evil (conversion by sword) offends evil people, then I am not sorry for one minute they are offended.

He must not apologise.

If I criticise pedophilia as inhumane disgusting behaviour that is evil, and 10,000 pedophiles protest, riot and burn down embassies, should I apologise? Should we make pedophilia legal?

What the hell do we stand for these days that if someone is offended we must apologise automatically?!!!
Posted by anon1 2006-09-16 03:01||   2006-09-16 03:01|| Front Page Top

#6 Scooter, thank you so much for this quick and ready encouragement. For it is most definitely encouragement that I need right now.

I am on the verge of tears as I type this. It is nearly impossible for me to foresee anything but violence forthcoming from Islam with respect to Pope Benedict's brave and incisive observations.

Right now Islam, more than anything, perfectly embodies the Anti-Christ. Regardless of Islam's putative respect for "people of the book", it epitomizes the alluring but ultimately misleading "One-World-Religion" foretold by the Book of Revelations.

Again, I ask of you to please remember how little credence I place in Biblical prophesy.

Yet, the profound and intensely evil nature of Islam places it first and foremost as the penultimate candidate for such labeling.

If there is to be any sort of "Holy War", Islam will most certainly bring it about. Not just by dint of its eternal predictions of how necessary such violent methods are for the spread of its own doctrine, but more importantly, because of how it shall surely (and don't call me Shirley), cause every sort of apocalyptic and antagonistic conflict that every other religion has ever predicted in all of history.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 03:17||   2006-09-16 03:17|| Front Page Top

#7 "I resent your accusations!"

"Do you deny that they are true?"

"That is beside the point. I am outraged!"
Posted by Baba Tutu 2006-09-16 03:18||   2006-09-16 03:18|| Front Page Top

#8 I hear ya Zen, and know where your coming from. :(
Posted by Thoth 2006-09-16 03:24||   2006-09-16 03:24|| Front Page Top

#9 I reckon you're right, Zen, that he is a target now for assassination.

After all they tried to kill Pope John Paul II and now some Islamic commentators are praising him by comparison and saying Pope Benedict has now 'put us back to square one' in Muslim relations.

But that doesn't mean there will be holy war.
If the Islamists kill the Pope, why do you think the Christians will hit back?
Posted by anon1 2006-09-16 03:31||   2006-09-16 03:31|| Front Page Top

#10 Thank you, Thoth. It's not so much that this is blowing my mind (and it is, at least to some extent), but that the dimension of what awaits this conflict is every bit as lethal as nuclear war. Yes, this may well be the launch of the new Crusades.

Can Islam claim, for the umpteenth time, any sort of victimhood?

Not if its adherents murder the Pope. No longer will Islam have the putative or ostensible refuge as any "Religion of Peace".

Certainly, I do not think so. We shall see. If Muslims can take Pope Benedict's words in stride, it will be much to their credit.

If another flurry of death fatwahs and horrendous cartoonifadas ensue, all bets are off.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 03:51||   2006-09-16 03:51|| Front Page Top

#11 But Zen, you are basing your prediction (if I am reading you correctly) on the idea that the true face of Islam will then be unmasked as not "the religion of peace".

But that assumes that Christians worldwide are galvanised to take action if once that becomes obvious and palpable.

So far with all the declarations of Islamic supremacy, the desire for a world caliphate, the bombings riots and murders... it is already apparent I think to most people that Islam is not a religion of peace.

It is only bureaucrats and multi culti apparatchiks and mainstream media that must pay lip service to this lie (to avoid the courts).

So unmasking the lie might simply show up our own weakness: I predict the Christians will not hit back. I wish they would; there needs to be a holy war to sort the situation, it cannot be negotiated as the Islamists won't give ground.

I fear we will sit back and just take it if he is assasinated. What do you think about that scenario?

Posted by anon1 2006-09-16 03:57||   2006-09-16 03:57|| Front Page Top

#12 I fear we will sit back and just take it if he is assasinated. What do you think about that scenario?

anon 1, forgive me for resorting to a less than precise interpretation of Christian doctrine that I encountered, right here at Rantburg.

To paraphrase: (You who posted this please step forward.)

Turning the other cheek implies receiving a reciprocal backhand or forehand slap (please help me here), that can only be construed as being worthy of family or slaves (In which ever order. I apologize that I can’t be more precise and hope the responsible party will step forward.)

All said and done, Christianity cannot possibly sit idly by and allow Islam (any kind of slap), free rein as to the curtailment of competitive religious practice.

But that assumes that Christians worldwide are galvanised to take action if once that becomes obvious and palpable.

Whether they are or not, and that is no small matter, it will still devolve upon world opinion to assess the wrongdoing of a purportedly “peaceful” religion that assassinates another major religious leader. Any inability to act will only serve to condemn those who cannot retaliate. I doubt the Western world will prove itself incapable.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 04:26||   2006-09-16 04:26|| Front Page Top

#13 Crap, that's so lame I can only hope the person who quoted this information will step forward. Otherwise, tomorrow I'll take the bit between my teeth and redefine this psychobabble.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 04:29||   2006-09-16 04:29|| Front Page Top

#14 Dear Zen,

You are never lame, that was very eloquent, thank you!
Posted by anon1 2006-09-16 04:34||   2006-09-16 04:34|| Front Page Top

#15 anon1, you are way too generous. I still hope that whichever person here at Rantburg who corrected me about the Christian interpretation of "turning the other cheek", will step forward.

The rest of what I have posted I will stand by to my death.

This world is rapidly approaching a moral gate whose passage will winnow those who are not worthy of future existence. I dread to think of how many will perish in the passage thereof.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 05:01||   2006-09-16 05:01|| Front Page Top

#16 Shariah Rule #1:

Muslims may criticize, blaspheme and threaten all they want, but any counter from non-Muslims is: Islamophobia, the worst offense of all.
Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-09-16 05:14||   2006-09-16 05:14|| Front Page Top

#17 I hope that the Pope doesn't pay personally for stating the truth. May God keep him and protect him.

However, if he should, I wish I could be as optimistic as Zenster that the rest of the world would finally wake up. The intelligentsia/elites have been stubborn in their devotion to a "multi-culti" cause, even if they personally would suffer under Shariah more than most (yes, I'm talking about gays, women's groups, and anyone who wouldn't be considered a "Person of the Book" by those swine). Not a single one of them has spoken up on the Pope's behalf, but if something should happen to him, I guarantee they will come forward to say he brought it on himself. Mark my words.
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-16 06:00|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]  2006-09-16 06:00|| Front Page Top

#18 cynical that I am ...

Just level the Middle East , Indonesia , and be done with it ... Noone will care in 100 years , as proven with Japan at the end of the war .

It would take more than 100 years to mend any relations we have (if we had any in the first place) , so i say wipe the slate clean , and let the decent folk of the world just get on with living .

Sick to death of all this seething and spittle .

Launch the 'crusade-warheads' (or whatever they wanna call it) and be done with it .
Posted by MacNails 2006-09-16 06:04||   2006-09-16 06:04|| Front Page Top

#19 Good post Zenster, I would find it sad if something happened to the Pope (and I'm not Catholic) - seems he is truely a couragous man.

Having said that it would be telling if the Muslims manage to assasinate the pope for calling Islam a religion of violence. (But I don't see the MSM pointing that out - on the contrary they will probably point out that he deserved it by insulting Islam.)

Remember - the Crusades were a defensive measure against hundreds of years of Islamic expansion by-the-sword. I'd say we need a revival of the Crusades.
Posted by CrazyFool 2006-09-16 06:09||   2006-09-16 06:09|| Front Page Top

#20 Lotsa folks up early on what should prove to be a fine Saturday morning where I live. Good football weather. Nice time of year before you have to spend the whole weekend raking leaves and cleaniing out the gutters. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-09-16 06:10||   2006-09-16 06:10|| Front Page Top

#21 I'm planning on getting out of raking the leaves by telling the Mrs that I'm joining the Crusade. My passport's expired so I'll join the Moonbats Between the Two Shining Seas Mop-Up Brigades.

I really hate raking leaves.
Posted by flyover 2006-09-16 06:29||   2006-09-16 06:29|| Front Page Top

#22 Sneash, as I've said before, everything about i-slam is a one way street (a presumption they claimed by right)and Zen has said that that street can be arranged to lead to Hell. Muzzies are pushing it whenever they feel strong and or their enemies appear weak.

My interpretation, Anon1, of turning the other cheek for Christians(I'm not one though)indicates that you may take just two intentional offenses or attacks, after which you hit back hard. That's as gentlemenly as things can/should ever be tolerated in a real world. More, and you embolden evil like nowadays pacifists and peaceniks(aka cowards)do moronically.

Throw not pearls before swines, similarly....once, twice and that's enough. There's been two major 'natural' calamity in muzzielands already in '04 and '05 already and the US played a leading role in relief efforts and private donations despite being designated as infidels. Beside, Donner Fatigue's also a natural combi and sequence.
Posted by Duh! 2006-09-16 06:55||   2006-09-16 06:55|| Front Page Top

#23 Zenster, you've nailed it in #1 and #6 above. Good stuff.

"God cannot possibly be of such a fragile ego as to take umbrage against those who might doubt His existence or refuse to fight His wars."

He also cannot be such a neurotic, obsessive-compulsive control freak that He flips out when someone inadvertently faces Mecca when squatting to take a shit. Muslims don't worship a "god": they worship a petulant, spoiled 3-year-old brat. A brat who has not yet moved beyond the pre-moral consciousness of the small child.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-16 08:16||   2006-09-16 08:16|| Front Page Top

#24 It's about time that we stop buying into the Islamic bullshit about how they worship the same god as the Judeo-Christian God. They don't.

There are several differences for anyone who cares to look. I'll give you just one. The Judeo-Christian God rewards those who lay down their lives for another, and says that anyone who saves an innocent life saves the world entire (yes, I know ol' Mo ripped that line off, but the rest of the Koran doesn't really back it up at all.) Classic example -- someone rolls a hand grenade into a room, and a person throws his or herself onto it to save everyone else by absorbing the blast with his or her body. That person would be rewarded by going to heaven. I have to admit, I'm not sure what happens up there...could be floating around with wings on your back playing the harp, hanging with friends who passed on before you, I don't know. But it sure doesn't resemble the Islamic version....

The Islamic god is so freakin' pathetic that he can't get rid of unbelievers by himself. Nope, his followers have to kill them for him. The more you kill, the happier he is. If you die while doing this, THEN you get to go to heaven. If you are a male, you get to party with a bunch of virgins who won't laugh at your sexual shortcomings since they don't know any different. If you are a woman, well, you finally are worth as much as a man. Ok, maybe all you get are raisins. Even they aren't sure in many circles. But the killing is rewarded, not the saving of life.

If you needed any further clarification as to why it's a death cult, look no further than that.
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-16 10:13|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]  2006-09-16 10:13|| Front Page Top

#25 "MUSLIMS around the world expressed outrage . . . "

And in other news . . .
Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-16 10:24||   2006-09-16 10:24|| Front Page Top

#26 An excerpt from the Cathechism of the Roman Catholic Church (Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 5):

Legitimate defense

2263
The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264
Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66

2265
Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

2266
The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people's rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and the duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people's safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67
Posted by mrp 2006-09-16 10:25||   2006-09-16 10:25|| Front Page Top

#27 Zen, it's like you looked into my mind. I too am a "scientific agnostic"; I too admire Benedict's forthrightness; I too worry about a holy war. You've expressed, most eloquently, what I've only thought in a disorganized fashion.

That said, I don't think the West would react to the assassination of His Holiness in the way you think. More and more I am coming to the conclusion that the best and the brightest among us have decided that the West deserves to die. Even those who are struggling to save our civilization, like President Bush, have let things get out of hand -- as witness the deterioration of the situations in Afghanistan and Iraq -- because they are distracted by the carping of the enemies of the West. I am constantly in despair at what I see happening, and I think we are going to have to prepare ourselves for a Democratic majority in November that will retreat and apologize until our position is untenable. The West is going into twilight, and the darkness will last until the Caliphate comes or we decide that we have something worth defending.

For myself, I find it harder and harder to hold onto my agnosticism. My admiration for the Catholic church and my belief that it is the bulwark on earth of a loving God increases by the day. I think that this is part of my mental and spiritual preparation for the coming darkness.

May God help us all.
Posted by Jonathan">Jonathan  2006-09-16 11:06||   2006-09-16 11:06|| Front Page Top

#28 Zen, love ya', but: "there has been a personal shift, on my part, over to disbelief in moderate Islam. (?)"

C'mon, you've NEVER believed in a moderate Islam and have been advocating for the nuking of Mecca and Medina from day one. There are some of us who remember. Again, there IS a moderate Islam, but they are scared of the terrorists, and trapped in confusion (Islam is so ambiguous, how does one behave like a "good" Moslem anyway?). The point is, I don't really care whether or not you believe or disbelieve in a "moderate Islam," but you're being a bit disingenuous to make the claim in any case, and it weakens your presentation (which is too bad).

I thought the pope was telling it like it is regarding Islam, even if only in spite of himself. It was great. I'm sure the truth hurts the Islam-icks. History is so replete with Moslem excess and evil, one does't have to look far--which is why they always are trying to rewrite history to favor themselves (like WE MOSLEMS invented math, science, etc., when what they really did was to steal it from the Byzantine Christians). They're just the same today. Taking undue credit from others, and then blaming others for their problems. You also said, "It is impossible to imagine that Pope Benedict is unaware of how dangerous his projected sojourn to Turkey might prove." It's not impossible. The hierarchy of the Roman Catholics lead sheltered lives in many respects. I think, though, if anything happens to the Pope, the extremists will have their "dreaded" Crusade, and it won't be of the defensive sort either. I'm not sure they really want that, considerint it's the modern age (with modern weaponry). We must also remember that many Islam-icks believe that if they can cause a worldwide ruckus, their "imam" will come back and save the day, so many don't care how they bring about full-scale war--to them it achieves their ends.

Another point: the pope and the vatican have specifically, and always (not just now) been a prime target of the extremists. The boomers just haven't been able to figure out how to do it, and they don't yet have the resources to pull it off.

Also, I agree with what Dave D. said about the "temperment" of the Islamic god, and again, with what Cyber Sarge said -- "the Crusades were a defensive measure against hundreds of years of Islamic expansion by-the-sword." Europe was forced to defend itself back then, even though the Islam-icks like to bitch and moan about how terrible and unfairly they were treated by those meanie Crusaders. Well, what did they expect? That the "nice guys" of Europe would come out and have tea with them, and then negotiate a truce? By claiming that the pope is "reviving the Crusades" they attempt to continue with their revisionist history bullshit and weaken the morale and resolute determination of the West to defend itself against them. It's typical lie-laden PR. If we feel bad/guilty about something in the past, they'll exploit it in the present.

About Swamp Blondie's rant pertaining to Islam having a god other than GOD:
here's a link It's a bit over the top in many respects (and not a lot of bandwidth for lots of visitors all at once), but still, quite a lot of very useful (and very disturbing) information about the very ugly side of Islam.

Now about your musings of God as "cosmic muffin"? I get where you're coming from but it's hardly the case. Here's an interesting excerpt which delineates the understanding that the people of (the true) God are in a cosmic battle and will be until the end of time. The excerpt is taken from a description of the icon of St. Michael and St. Gabriel.

"The Holy Archangels, Michael and Gabriel, are the two commanders of the Bodiless Hosts They are often depicted standing side by side with the Archangel Michael dressed as a warrior. By his word Satan was cast down from Heaven when St. Michael asked him, "Who is as God?" (the word Michael is the Hebrew translation of this question) in reply to the Evil One’s attempt to make himself equal to God. This Holy Archangel has always been invoked to help overcome all evil in any form and from those who attempt to do evil in this world. He is a helper of those in need, a Heavenly protector for those who turn to him to ask God to bring succor and aid in their distress, and an inspirer for us all to do what is pleasing to God and have the moral and physical strength to do so.

The Holy Archangel Gabriel who is also one of the leaders of the Bodiless Hosts. St. Gabriel’s name means "Man of God" in Hebrew and he has been the herald of tidings of divine and blessed things and events since history began. This Holy Archangel always helps, informs, and guides God’s people. He is dressed in fine robes and with a staff in his hand."

This is the ancient Orthodox view (don't know if it's the same as the Roman Catholic view), but it's also interesting to remember how much the Orthodox Christans suffered under the Moslems (just like now). Defending oneself against warmongers is not against the faith.

Zen, I join you in your last-line condemnation of Islam.
Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-16 11:23||   2006-09-16 11:23|| Front Page Top

#29 The Islamic god is so freakin' pathetic that he can't get rid of unbelievers by himself. Nope, his followers have to kill them for him. The more you kill, the happier he is. If you die while doing this, THEN you get to go to heaven.

It's worse than that -- the holy murderer gets to pick 70 people to let into paradise. So there's a motive to support the holy murderers.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-09-16 11:30|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-09-16 11:30|| Front Page Top

#30 Again, there IS a moderate Islam, but they are scared of the terrorists, and trapped in confusion

And pumping cash into the pockets of the jihadis.

There are no moderates. There are just Muslims content to let OTHERS murder their way into paradise.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-09-16 11:33|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-09-16 11:33|| Front Page Top

#31 RC, as much as I want to agree, the fact is, a lot of Moslems don't give a hoot about their religion, or see their religion in a way that is not at all compatible with what the radicals are doing. We have to continue to endeavor to "welcome" those sorts into our camp and encourage the "difference." It's a tricky game, to be sure, but it behooves us to remember that not all Moslems are bad, just like not all southern white gentlemen are klansmen. Capice?
Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-16 11:43||   2006-09-16 11:43|| Front Page Top

#32 Zenster---my compliments for your eloquent, honest, and insightful comments. What we have seen in the last 30 years are skirmishes in the war between light and darkness.

Pope Benedict is a courageous man. He is a true man of faith in a God of goodness and love. As a leader, he knew what was at stake and what he would face when he signed on with the outfit, so to speak. He is walking into this with his eyes fully open. We may worry about his life and safety, but he knows what he must do.

So-called Muslim outrage about his remarks are orchestrated. The Muzzies see themselves on a roll right now. They are on a roll because countries like the US and Israel are fighting with one hand tied behind their backs. Most Euros feel that they do not really have a dog in the fight, so they appease or do what they can to undermine the fight against Islamofascism. Well, the tantrums seem to work, so, by simple inductive logic, the Muzzies will keep it up, along with intimidation.

However, a spark, like an assassination of a Pope, or a nuke going off could change everything. Then Wrechard's 3 conjectures kicks in. All I know is that there are enough people unwilling to lose all the good of Western civilization to a bunch of throat slitting, pedophile, women-abusing psychos masquerading as religious men.

These are the times that try men's souls. I think of Winston Churchill and his leadership during the dark days of Britain during WW2. He kept going, despite how badly things seemed to go. Despite how f*cked up things seem to be, we must never give up.
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2006-09-16 11:45||   2006-09-16 11:45|| Front Page Top

#33 Just wanted to add --the point about moderate Islam is pretty much moot. Hardly any of them will speak out against the rage (either out of fear or confusion), and our fight isn't with them anyway, so it doesn't matter. My point about moderates in Islam (can anyone say majority Iran?) is true, but largely academic in terms of what we're facing.
Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-16 11:52||   2006-09-16 11:52|| Front Page Top

#34 All I know is that there are enough people unwilling to lose all the good of Western civilization to a bunch of throat slitting, pedophile, women-abusing psychos masquerading as religious men

Count me among them.
Posted by lotp 2006-09-16 12:00||   2006-09-16 12:00|| Front Page Top

#35 Good posts Zen.

As far as a moderate Islam goes, do the math yourself:

#1 Radical Islamists: __%

#2 Those Muslims who generally support the efforts of group #1: __%

#3 Those Muslims who actively denounce the efforts of group #1 and agree we should find, capture and/or kill them. __%

My numbers add up like this:

#1 1-3%

#2 70-80%

#3 20-30%
Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2006-09-16 12:52||   2006-09-16 12:52|| Front Page Top

#36 BTW, these wackos seem to be able to muster a protest for almost anything. When was the last time you saw them protest against Binny or Zarq or any other terrorist? Maybe you want to adjust your numbers in my last post?
Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2006-09-16 12:56||   2006-09-16 12:56|| Front Page Top

#37 #17 Not a single one of them has spoken up on the Pope's behalf, but if something should happen to him, I guarantee they will come forward to say he brought it on himself. Mark my words.

Regardless of how cynical it may sound, I do believe you are right, Blondie. I refuse to join the ranks of such moral cowards. That is why I was compelled to step forward with this post today. There are limits and too many of them have been passed already for good people to stand idly by.

#19 I would find it sad if something happened to the Pope (and I'm not Catholic) - seems he is truely a couragous man.

CrazyFool, about all I can offer is a famous and still quite apt saying:

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
— Edmund Burke —

#22 Duh, regarding what I was attempting to convey in post #12; Since the person who mentioned this has not come forward, I will try to reconstruct from memory what was discussed.

This related to the Biblical saying of “Turn the other cheek”. The interpretation mentioned was quite intriguing.

Supposedly, you strike a slave with the back of your hand, the classic “backhand” as it were. If a slave was to “turn the other cheek”, it would mean that to deliver another timely blow, one would have to use an open hand to dispatch it on the return swing. The traditional open-handed slap supposedly is something reserved for familiars and the slave effectively demands that he be treated as family by turning the other cheek.

I seem to recall this as being the gist of what was posted. If the person who originally made note of this would step in, I’d appreciate it.

That's as gentlemenly as things can/should ever be tolerated in a real world. More, and you embolden evil like nowadays pacifists and peaceniks(aka cowards)do moronically.

I’ll certainly agree with your interpretation as well, Duh!

#23 Zenster, you've nailed it in #1 and #6 above.

Thank you, David D. The available options from your well-thought-out list seem to be shrinking on a daily basis.

#27 Zen, it's like you looked into my mind. I too am a "scientific agnostic"; I too admire Benedict's forthrightness; I too worry about a holy war.

... That said, I don't think the West would react to the assassination of His Holiness in the way you think. More and more I am coming to the conclusion that the best and the brightest among us have decided that the West deserves to die.

Jonathan, while those you make note may seem to be the “best and brightest”, truly they can only be neither. They are slavering wolves in the fold. These pseudo-intellectuals are the most contemptuous and worst sort of thankless vipers that seek to ravage the very bosom that nurtures them. That our nation can somehow permit their existence is enduring testimony to American freedom. Whether our nation can survive them is another matter entirely and one that eventually must be addressed by all who seek to defend liberty and free thought.

#28 C'mon, you've NEVER believed in a moderate Islam and have been advocating for the nuking of Mecca and Medina from day one.

ex-lib, as is so too often the case, you are so far out in left field that you’re playing behind home plate.

If you ever bothered to read my posts, then you would know that I, along with Fred Pruitt, originally defended the existence of moderate Muslims. Additionally, any mention I ever made about using atomic weapons against Mecca was in the context of retaliation-in-kind to a terrorist nuclear attack on American soil. Something you have handily omitted any mention of to serve your own slanderous ends.

Furthermore, all of the foregoing was in based in a discussion of how to evolve a credible deterrent to terrorism. Again, something you neglect to bring forth in your lust to paint me up as a bloodthirsty hawk.

The point is, I don't really care whether or not you believe or disbelieve in a "moderate Islam," but you're being a bit disingenuous to make the claim in any case, and it weakens your presentation (which is too bad).

Ummm... no. The actual point is that you are out to lunch before breakfast even hits the table.

Now about your musings of God as "cosmic muffin"? I get where you're coming from but it's hardly the case.

I doubt you even have the faintest idea of what I am alluding to by mention of that. Fortunately, we have more erudite people here at Rantburg, in the form of .com, who actually have a genuine sense of humor blended with their sagacity.

Zen, I join you in your last-line condemnation of Islam.

I suppose I’ll have to settle for that, then.

# 30 There are no moderates. There are just Muslims content to let OTHERS murder their way into paradise.

While your cynicism meter seems to be pegged at “11” of late, RC, mine has been maxing out in general as well. Your above statement certainly finds no challenge from my quarter. The oft noted and continued thundering silence of this world’s Muslims even on the 9-11 atrocity’s fifth anniversary has snapped whatever hope I ever had for moderate Islam. With Indonesia’s Mahathir’s own proclamation that, “ There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim ”, I now abandon all such hope and take him at his word.

Finally, thank you all for wading through my cumbersome posts. The time has come for people to unite against the dawning of another yet fascist and genocidal regime. I am given hope by all of you here at Rantburg, no small gift in these perilous times. May Pope Benedict be sheltered beneath his God's wing.

As I have said before, this one is for all the marbles.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 13:11||   2006-09-16 13:11|| Front Page Top

#38 These are the times that try men's souls. I think of Winston Churchill and his leadership during the dark days of Britain during WW2. He kept going, despite how badly things seemed to go. Despite how f*cked up things seem to be, we must never give up.

Word, Alaska Paul.

Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

— Winston Churchill —

This world is sorely in need of another Churchill. Sadly, when he was born they broke the mold.

When was the last time you saw them protest against Binny or Zarq or any other terrorist?

Bing-effing-go, Intrinsicpilot. This is the Thundering Silence I continue to decry and it is a searing indictment of all Islam. Publish some relatively benign cartoons and watch the threats fly and the blood flow. Fly loaded passenger jet airliners into some of the world’s largest occupied skyscrapers and barely a peep is heard. To hell with Islam.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 13:42||   2006-09-16 13:42|| Front Page Top

#39 RC, as much as I want to agree, the fact is, a lot of Moslems don't give a hoot about their religion, or see their religion in a way that is not at all compatible with what the radicals are doing.

According to Mohammed, silence is consent. There's no group more silent in re Islamic terrorism than the supposed moderate Muslims. Fer crissake, I've watched a self-proclaimed moderate -- born, raised, educated in Australia -- refuse to condemn bin Laden for terrorist attacks he admitted to.

I'm only holding them to the standards they believe. If that's unfair... *shrug*.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-09-16 13:52|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-09-16 13:52|| Front Page Top

#40 While your cynicism meter seems to be pegged at “11” of late, RC, mine has been maxing out in general as well.

Look at the way the Islamic world acts. Sure, the vast majority just get on with their lives. But they do nothing about the murderers among them who are intent on killing people who want to get on with their lives, just not in an Islamic way.

Indonesia -- faked flyers advertising a "come to Jesus" revival targeting Muslims. Now the Christians in the province are in fear for their lives; some have had to flee the area.

Thailand. Sudan. France. Britain. Germany. Denmark.

All have Muslim groups intent on imposing their will on the non-Muslim population, while a supposedly moderate Muslim population does nothing. Worse than nothing, often -- the moderates seem to chime in with "don't blame Islam for this, you'll just cause violence".

Over and over and over and over, what we hear from the moderates isn't condemnation, but a combination of excuse-making, threats, and mulish refusal to even accept the reality of what's happening.

I gave up on the idea of the moderate Muslim long ago. Now I'm understanding why there aren't any of them; jihad is an obligation, and funding jihad counts nearly as much as slaughtering toddlers headed to Disneyland in the name of Allah.

So the "moderates" are playing their role in jihad: funding the jihadis and raising holy hell whenever the kaffir start to notice what's going on.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-09-16 14:03|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-09-16 14:03|| Front Page Top

#41 You bomb every country in the entire world, call us Crusaders, and then want the Pope to apologize about reading a conversation from the past? How history repeats itself. Now YOU listen, knock it off.
Posted by newc">newc  2006-09-16 14:39||   2006-09-16 14:39|| Front Page Top

#42 Rob, trust me, you and I are on the same page. If Islam continues on its current course it can kiss its sorry, pathetic ass goodbye.

I, for one, will not miss it in the least.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 15:48||   2006-09-16 15:48|| Front Page Top

#43 Well, when they complain about what's ahead, the only response can be allan's willed it. Allan has willed you to die in the tens/hundreds of millions or lost to the mist of time.
Posted by anonymous2u 2006-09-16 17:57||   2006-09-16 17:57|| Front Page Top

#44 Zen, great post. I think this Pope gets it on several levels and yes he clearly understands the risk he is taking.

I doubt whether his assasination, should it happen, will affect much in the immediate aftermath. Swamp is right in saying that the western intelligentsia will blame the victim. And it will likely be undertaken by an individual whom they can label as "troubled", bi-polar or affected by am SRI-based psychiatric drug. But it WILL serve to move the masses to a better understanding of who and what islam is. It will open more eyes, just as today's seething and church burnings are doing. Islam is what it is. It cannot hide its nature, especially when it feels as emboldened as it does today.

The muzzies will overstep. This too is their nature. It is my hope that this will cause Europe to throw off the marxist/socialist cloak that blinds it to faith in God so they can truly join us in repulsing this Satanic religion.
Posted by Remoteman 2006-09-16 20:02||   2006-09-16 20:02|| Front Page Top

#45 Indonesia’s Mahathir’
That's Malaysia. Minor dif.
"As I have said before, this one is for all the marbles."
Marbles are definitely at stake .
I really like reading all your postrs. This is turning into a major issue.
God Bless the Pope. (I'm Jewish) And God Love the last pope ( A hard act to follow)
This man has taken a step for all of us. He knows what he us doing big time, and I applaud, LAUD him for it.
Posted by J.D. Lux 2006-09-16 20:09||   2006-09-16 20:09|| Front Page Top

#46 That's Malaysia.

Thank you, J.D. Lux, my mistake. More fitting really, that such a quote should originate with the people who gave sentence reductions to those who committed the Bali bombing atrocity.

I'm really glad to hear that you, especially as a Jewish person, are concerned about the Pope and supportive of his actions. The more inter-faith support that can be generated, the more this might provide at least some sort of shield for Benedict.

Remoteman, I'm glad that you enjoyed the post.

The muzzies will overstep.

That's a gimmie.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 20:33||   2006-09-16 20:33|| Front Page Top

#47 Is it overstepping if they don't get pushback?
Posted by lotp 2006-09-16 20:35||   2006-09-16 20:35|| Front Page Top

#48  Is it overstepping if they don't get pushback?

I think we can safely define flying loaded passenger jet airliners into two of the world's largest occupied skyscrapers as "overstepping".

I truly have to wonder if, right now, America might be better served by an atheist president. Such an individual might have fewer reservations about instituting punitive measures against what is, ostensibly, one of the world's major religions.

From all outward appearance, Bush has fairly consistently allowed his own religious leanings to color our nation's reponse to these Islamic atrocities. I sense an unwillingness on his part to denounce Islamic fundamentalism and think it could be in fear of how he might open the door to any criticism of his own Christian fundamentalism.

Whatever the case may be, Bush's apparent reluctance to more aggressively prosecute the Islamofascists is doing no one any favors. Even the average Muslim is ill-served by this as they see less of a down side to their silence than there really should be.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 21:14||   2006-09-16 21:14|| Front Page Top

#49 There is something to be said about restraint in destroying infrastructure. That's why we have neutron bombs. A series of bright white flashes and there are no more muslims to worry about. Everything of value in the Muslim world is still intact. We bring in workers from elsewhere to pump the oil and the world is a much better place.
Posted by Random Thoughts 2006-09-16 21:35||   2006-09-16 21:35|| Front Page Top

#50 You make it sound so easy......
Do we really ?
Posted by J.D. Lux 2006-09-16 21:46||   2006-09-16 21:46|| Front Page Top

#51 We don't have neutron bombs anymore, thanks to Jimmy Carter and his ilk.
Posted by Darrell 2006-09-16 21:58||   2006-09-16 21:58|| Front Page Top

#52 We still have high yield radiation weapons, we just don't call them "neutron bombs" anymore. All nuclear weapons release massive quantities of neutrons. It's just a matter of maximizing the neutron yield from a minimal detonation in order to minimize damage to the surrounding infrastructure.

Even if they were not in our inventory, I'm certain we could convert over some of our lower yield devices in record time to suit any special occasion.
Posted by Zenster 2006-09-16 22:03||   2006-09-16 22:03|| Front Page Top

#53 Ah, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
Posted by Uluper Chaper8156 2006-09-16 23:55||   2006-09-16 23:55|| Front Page Top

23:57 Old Patriot
23:55 Uluper Chaper8156
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23:43 The Hedgehogemony
23:38 Captain America
23:29 USN,Ret
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22:57 J.D. Lux
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22:48 JSU
22:42 Chuck
22:40 Alaska Paul
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22:38 Zenster
22:36 Alaska Paul
22:36 Leonidas
22:23 J.D. Lux
22:20 Seafarious reluctantly on the way home from Barcelona
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