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2004-09-25 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Europe loses patience with Iran over arms
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Posted by Steve White 2004-09-25 12:14:09 AM|| || Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Despite the perfidy of our European "allies" over Iraq, this may actually be a big deal. Remember, the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.
Posted by tibor 2004-09-25 12:35:02 AM||   2004-09-25 12:35:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Lol, tibor! I'm sure you're right... the EU3 just had to "age" the problem in their sophisticated way, heh. Don't want to agree with the US too quickly, lest someone mistake their shift as a sign we were right. That would never quite do, lol!
Posted by .com 2004-09-25 12:39:25 AM||   2004-09-25 12:39:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Diplomats close to negotiations in which Britain, France, and Germany are trying to persuade Iran to abandon its uranium enrichment programme said the Europeans might soon be ready to support American demands to refer it to the United Nations Security Council.

Boy howdy, after that you can bet all heck will break loose. All HELL breaking loose will have to wait until later when some sort of testicularly endowed nation like America or Israel actually does something about Iran's nuclear lustings.

Remember, the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.

Sorry to be the one who has to tell you this, tibor, but most of the outside world seems to be following the Roseanne Bahr (i.e., European) model of this crisis.

"The first step towards recovery is admitting that everyone else has a problem."
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-25 12:44:49 AM||   2004-09-25 12:44:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Pray tell, this "awakening" by France and Germany doesn't have anything to do with the US or Israel taking preemptive action on Iran before long, does it?

But beware, these are the same cast of appeasers who threatened "serious actions" only to tremble and shake.

Posted by Capt America  2004-09-25 1:05:13 AM||   2004-09-25 1:05:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Serious Actions: flapping arms vigorously while vocalizing a clucking sound.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-09-25 1:41:33 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-09-25 1:41:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Serious actions means they're going to pout. And that would really scare the Iranians into action.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-25 1:42:44 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-25 1:42:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 5000 JDAMS including 500 bunker buster bombs sold to Israel recently does throw some nuance in the Iranian soup du jour. Like I said earlier, this public stuff is all window dressing. What we and Israel really know is held close to the chest. This public posturing and clucking is for the benefit of morons like, uh, Reuters, for example. The Black Turbans and their proxies are too looney to be trusted with WMD. This issue WILL be solved.
Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-09-25 2:15:21 AM||   2004-09-25 2:15:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 If Iran is using Chinese/NK guidance for its missiles, I don't know that Israel needs to fear an attack. I would think the Saudi Arabia and other nearby Moslem countries might be a little leary of a near miss.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-09-25 2:58:07 AM||   2004-09-25 2:58:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 The French are sending cake to teach Tehran a lession!
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-09-25 3:27:29 AM||   2004-09-25 3:27:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 The French are sending cake to teach Tehran a lession!

Let them eat yellowcake.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-25 4:33:00 AM||   2004-09-25 4:33:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Cradle rattling and foot stomping to follow.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-25 7:14:57 AM||   2004-09-25 7:14:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 This is exactly the time to follow the advice of the former secretary of state Dr. Kissinger. Accordingly, It is the time for U.S. to use the most powerful nuclear bombs to blow up a few mountains in Iran and Iraq just to demonstrate the awesome power that the God have bestowed upon U.S.A since this country is doing exactly the God’s work by helping people of the world to live and let live in prosperity, irrespective of their race, religion and ethnic backgrounds. The most important aspect of this demonstration of the awesome power will be to warn the followers of radical Islam to shapeup or to face a certain annihilation irrespective of what other stupid countries say simply because it is our right to defend the security of our citizens any where in the world .
Posted by Anonymous6391 2004-09-25 7:17:27 AM||   2004-09-25 7:17:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Anonymous6391 you are truly a nut job.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-09-25 7:24:52 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-09-25 7:24:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 A near-space air burst would send deffinative message.The EMP burst would destroy electronics for hundreds of miles without causing massive civilian casualties.
Posted by raptor 2004-09-25 9:02:50 AM||   2004-09-25 9:02:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 "...blow up a few mountains..."
Very stupid. We will use air bursts as at Hiroshima. They provide the full power of the explosions with far less fallout. [Incidentally, Hiroshima is a thriving city today, so don't give me that "wasteland for 10,000 years" crap.]
Posted by Tom 2004-09-25 9:05:20 AM||   2004-09-25 9:05:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 AnOn 6391: blowing up a few mountains will put the fear of (your) god into them? God gave us the H-bomb? You have a strange god. More likely the Iranians will folow the lead of Gen Buck Turgison when he heard about the Soviet's doomsday weapon: "We gotta get us one of those".
Posted by Weird Al 2004-09-25 9:43:09 AM||   2004-09-25 9:43:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 "Remember, the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one." tibor


My name is Tehran.. (hello Tehran) and I have a nuclear problem. I feel this over powering need for nukes that will surely kill me...

Brought to you courtesy of AA (atomics anonymous)
Posted by flash91 2004-09-25 11:27:30 AM||   2004-09-25 11:27:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 The nanny state has left Europe a land of infants still safe in the government cradle. But the wolf is starting to howl, and getting close to the door. And unfortunately for the Europeans, the hunter (US Military) who kept them safe all these years is out killing the wolves that threaten his own home.

Europe had better wake up.

NKor designed missles in Iran with range to all of Europe excepting Scandinavia, and Iran trying to make nuclear warheads.

Add to that mix Iranian work to increase the accuracy and throw weight (the latter is very important because they cannot yet make light enough nuke warheads and their current missles have a capacity for about 500 pound IIRC from open sources), and you get a screaming alarm complete with red stobe and klaxon.

The only question is:

Has Europe become so encrusted with socialism and moral laziness that they are able to hear the alarm - or if they do hear it, does Europe have the will to respond effectively?

Sorry guys, but the US is busy elsewhere. Look no furhter than yourselves: you didnt give us any help, you made things even more difficult in many ways, ensuring that we were fully engaged in our current war.

So, thanks to your snotty vengefulness, you're on your own. The only help we will provide will likely be humanitarian relief and decontamination from whatever city in Europe gets vaporized.

That, and probably we will reduce the Iranian missle and nuclear sites to radioactive slag. But only AFTER they nuke you. After all, YOU don't want us acting pre-emtively, unless a clear immediate danger exists.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-25 1:33:51 PM||   2004-09-25 1:33:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 The day Iranian missiles stocked with nuclear warheads can reach Berlin Germany will have to rethink its nuclear options.
This is an issue nobody is yet willing to discuss. But I for once am not willing to rely on the French on that matter.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-25 2:13:18 PM||   2004-09-25 2:13:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 While we're all pretty confident that the first target of an Iranian nuclear strike will be Israel, consider this: Greece, Turkey, some of the new European nations (Ukraine, Moldova, etc), and parts of Italy are in range of missiles Iran currently has, if they move them to Syria. Syria has been used before for this type of activity, and may be used again. It's to no one's advantage to wait until Iran detonates a nuclear device. The entire world needs to blockade Iranian ports, shut down Iranian overland imports, and put as much pressure on Iran as possible to forego developing a nuclear arsenal. Those nations that can should also gear up for a preemptive strike on Tehran and Iran's nuclear development sites if the blockade fails. Of course, there are certain nations that won't allow such an action, even when it's in their own best interest.
Posted by Old Patriot  2004-09-25 3:09:11 PM|| [http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2004-09-25 3:09:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Sorry guys, but the US is busy elsewhere. Look no furhter than yourselves: you didnt give us any help, you made things even more difficult in many ways, ensuring that we were fully engaged in our current war.

Does that include Italy, Poland and so forth? Am asking just because you seemed to include Europe as a whole in there.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-09-25 3:47:17 PM||   2004-09-25 3:47:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Europe loses patience...
Check in your wife's purse, where she keeps your balls. Maybe it's in there.
Posted by Crikey 2004-09-25 4:01:38 PM||   2004-09-25 4:01:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 OS, it sounds good, but the reality is that Israel is the first target and neither they nor we are going to allow that to happen. The second target is probaly not Europe, but the US, via container-ship. The count down starts November 3, in Washington or Jerusalem, depending on election returns.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-25 4:34:50 PM||   2004-09-25 4:34:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 well, I certainly hope that Iran can be stopped before the mad mullahs decide to lob a nuke towards Israel or our European neighbors. And with the exception of France (just kidding...sort of) we'd do all we could to help prevent that.

But it's true Europe needs to wake up and see that mommy and daddy USA can do little to protect them from this threat. Due to proximity and strength, it makes sense for hell-bent Islamists to attempt to expand into Europe first.

Europeans, especially the French, seem to think that because they hate America, that this will somehow innoculate them from them from being considered infidels.

This is absurd. That would be like a KKK caring if a black hails from Africa, America or Jamaca. They don't care if American blacks are more educated or if American blacks look down on African blacks. They are all blacks - period. Logic states they will strike at the blacks closest to them.

We are all infidels and hated equally by the fanatics. They don't see shades of infidels - unless you are already a Muslim.

They hate Europeans as much as they hate us. If it's easier to get Europe first, then logic dictates that they will pick the low hanging fruit on the tree first.
Posted by 2B 2004-09-25 4:42:21 PM||   2004-09-25 4:42:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Good cop/bad cop doesn't work when good cop is running all over the hood telling the bad boyz he's not really a cop at all. France has zero credibility here. Germany, not much more. Only a complete turnabout by Jack Straw and the other Stooges will mean anything at this point. We've lost a lot of time, and I doubt any last-minute change of heart by the Stooges will make any difference in the mullahs' calculations.

Also, Mrs D is right: containers, proxies, US port. Those jihadists with some economoics or business training must know that the best way to cripple the consumer-based US economy is to force us to search containers arriving at LA Oakland Baltimore Houston etc. No better, faster way to shave a point off of GNP growth than to eliminate the huge productivity gains the US retail economy has made via automated container unloading/shipping and just-in-time inventory mgmt.

Economics Note: some economists think that as much as one-third of US productivity gains in the last seven years came from one retailer alone, a company whose market valuation is higher than the GSP of ninety percent of the world's nations. Imagine the effects on US retail costs, hence end-user pricing, hence US inflation and consumer disposable income and spending, hence economic growth, if companies like Walmart have their supply chains disrupted. Let's pray the jihadists don't know anything about the sources of US productivity gains and economic strength.
Posted by lex 2004-09-25 6:18:13 PM||   2004-09-25 6:18:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 If Iran attacks openly anyone it will be a smoking crater before the end of the next day. The former USSR and US will launch an un corrdinated attack on them I am pretty sure.

I am not so sure searching every container is a bad idea lex. Not just from a security standpoint. I think quite a bit of stuff comes into the US that doesn't have the correct tariff or taxes paid on them. Quite a bit thats not legal comes in here via container too. I say check it all. If you want it on time ship it early.

Again on the proxies and "sneak attacks" I fall back to the letting Islam know. Any attack on the US means Mecca, Medina and the Dome of the Rock are utterly destroyed. Permanately put beyond their reach.

If Iran attacks the US it will be a sneak attack, the same goes for Europe. The Iranians are cowards who have used and currently use proxies. There is no diplomatic solution to this issue. The EU is hosed before it starts.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-09-25 6:32:38 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-09-25 6:32:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Proxies, Sock Puppet. Plausible deniability for the mullahs.

Also, I can assure you that searching all containers is simply not possible without adding very significant costs to the US economy. Note that the reason most people are happy with our brave new economy is not due to higher wages--which for at least half of the public have remained nearly flat, in real terms, over the last thirty years-- but from steadily declining costs for non-essential consumer goods.

What do you think will happen to the Dow, and to employee pension funds, and to growth and employment overall, when you start searching each of the gazillion containers that arrive in this country each day? Not hard to answer this: go back to the pre-Walmart era. Look at the early seventies. This would be as catastrophic as OPEC's oil price tripling during the seventies.
Posted by lex 2004-09-25 6:45:38 PM||   2004-09-25 6:45:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 LOL! Don't sweat it Aris, it's like the Warsaw earthquake, you won't feel a thing. :)
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-25 6:48:36 PM||   2004-09-25 6:48:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 LOL, nice shiv, ship!
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-25 6:59:52 PM||   2004-09-25 6:59:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Easy there, Sock Puppet, the Dome of the Rock is in Jerusalem. You may want to take that down a bit more carefully.
Posted by Tom 2004-09-25 7:46:29 PM||   2004-09-25 7:46:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Lex is correct about the feasibility of searching the containers. It is simply a risk we will have to endure if we allow the Mullahs to obtain the bomb. Which is why we won't.

Interesting that today Perv said that he would like to see Pakistan free of nukes before he dies. The costs of nukes are enourmous, as I am sure Powell has impressed on Perv. The trick will be to get the Indians to follow suit. That would be worth guaranteeing Indian secuirity, though it would drive the Chinese nuts. Or perhaps because.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-25 8:05:01 PM||   2004-09-25 8:05:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 I know where it's at Tom. That doesn't precude it's utter distruction if we suffer a "sneak attack" The Jews will be happy to have the temple mount back. One more thing that would scare the mooslimbs fecaless teh temple mount back in Jewish hands.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-09-25 8:11:29 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-09-25 8:11:29 PM|| Front Page Top

18:34 Flash Whagum2399
20:47 Travis Horn
20:41 Travus Horn
00:49 lex
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03:59 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:40 VAMark
23:33 Heartless Bastard TROLL
23:32 Deacon Blues
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23:01 Comment Top
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