Article

2005-10-06 Europe

Turkey thanks U.S. for its support for EU membership talks

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2005-10-06 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The One Way "alliance" continues, though I have no idea why.

Posted by .com 2005-10-06 00:11|| 2005-10-06 00:11|| Front Page Top

#2 It is very much in our own interests to keep Turkey out of the hands of the Islamacists and looking west.

Lots of reasons including:

It is a non-Arab muslim country that has been, relatively speaking, moderate.

It historically was a very useful ally - as my USAF friends who served at the airfields on the Soviet border remember clearly.

It controls, potentially, the major portion of waters flowing into Iraq and other countries in the region. It also controls an important shipping strait.

There are many Turks still willing to aim at secularism as an important principle for government.

The list could go on and on .... the ability of Turkish industry to compete with China as China moves a bit more upscale / upwage is valuable as well.

Posted by lotp 2005-10-06 08:35|| 2005-10-06 08:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Well, lotp, #3 is current - all of the other substantive points are past tense, I'd say. It is being run by Islamists, now, contrary to their constitution, and their Military, which is constitutionally obligated to keep it secular, sat with their hands in their laps both during Erdogan's "illegal" campaign / election (remember the articles from that time pointing this out?), and the stage-managed decision of the Legislature (to Chirac's glee) to deny US passage rights at the moment of truth. And this happened after we went to bat for them when France derailed their request for Patriot batteries through NATO before the start of the war. Remember? We, the US, went around France and saw to it they had them, just in case. We were damned fine allies.

But the vote to disallow US passage rights kept the 4th ID out of the entire campaign. Which yielded the current Sunni Triangle situation. The hammer had no anvil... and the Triangle got a pass. Want to discuss Turkey's culpability in the current Iraq situation? Long before you came here that was whacked around RB pretty good - and I lay many US dead on Turkey's doorstep. There are a few here who wanted to defend Turkey - but the facts weren't there - they pointed to stupidity and perfidy and gullibility and being played like a violin by Chirac and others in the EU opposing US actions in Iraq. Yippie & Co are fools, suckers, and not our allies. Their Military must be riddled with his supporters, for they failed miserably in their role as secular guarantors.

IIRC, what - 18-20 months ago?, when Bush went there he gave them nice compliments about being stalwart allies and vowed to assist them with their EU aspirations, yaddaÂ³, he was booed - and this was a crowd of the elites who are allowed to attend such ceremonies. I'm thinking the past was pretty nice, and they rocked as allies - then, but the present is something else, entirely. We've kept our word to them every step of the way. They have not - for the last 2+ yrs. Period. Just my take.

Posted by .com 2005-10-06 09:07|| 2005-10-06 09:07|| Front Page Top

#4 I agree with everything you say,

but

are we better off alienating Turkey or trying to get them back on board?

They've been pretty well screwed over by the French on this EU admission and may well regret blocking the 4ID. They still have to worry about a Kurdistan emerging from Iraq with our blessings. So they should be motivated to play ball with us.

The alternative is that the Islamofascists really take Turkey over and we've got an Islamic Republic on our hands.

Turkey screwed up. They made a mistake. We all do. If we wanted to use a stick on them we should have done it then. Have they learnt a lesson? I sure don't know, but if they did, they would make such an expression of thanks as this. If they're ready to put our relationship back on the tracks, we should be gracious and accept. If not, there'll be time to get even. But a democratic Turkey that can disagree with us from time to time is a valuable asset in trying to democratize the ME. At some point the Iraqis and Afghans will probably be rude and ungrateful just like the Germans, French, Italians, Russians and all the others we've helped with our blood. We need to get used to it. It's the way nations behave. The important thing is to do in the moment what best ensures our long term security. And right now that seems to be making nice with the Turks. No matter how much it makes one wish to puke.

The alternative, no matter how probable we think it is, is so horrendous, that we ahve to make every effort to avoid it.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-10-06 10:48|| 2005-10-06 10:48|| Front Page Top

#5 Yup. That's about my take too, Mrs. D.

BTW, .com, I've been around the Burg longer than may be obvious.

Posted by lotp 2005-10-06 10:52|| 2005-10-06 10:52|| Front Page Top

#6 Besides if we can stick it to the French its fine by me

Posted by Cheaderhead 2005-10-06 11:12|| 2005-10-06 11:12|| Front Page Top

#7 Heh - they think helping them into the EU is a good thing. Schmucks.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-10-06 11:28|| 2005-10-06 11:28|| Front Page Top

#8 So, lotp, you agree with Mrs D who agrees with me but I disagree with you?

Look, what you folks are saying reminds me of the Bill Cosby routine where he's in surgery and he hears the physician say, "Oops!" This isn't an "Oops!" This is just a tad more than that, I'd say ... Witness:

*********************************************

Turkey agrees to aid US war
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?D=2003-02-06&ID=9961&HC=1
The motion was passed by 308 votes to 93 with 9 abstentions.

Turkey offers Saddam safe haven
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10121&D=2003-02-11&HC=1
FOLLOWUP:
Turkish Prime Minister Abdullah Gul Tuesday denied a report that he had offered safe haven to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein if he stepped down to prevent a U.S.-led war.

Turkey denies British troops role on border
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10187&D=2003-02-13&HC=1
Turkey is withholding permission for the deployment of British troops in support of American ground forces preparing a northern front against Saddam Hussein's regime.

Activities In Incirlik Base Continue
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10237&D=2003-02-14&HC=1
Under permission of the parliament, necessary renovation, development and construction works have been continuing at military bases and ports.

NATO â Minus France â Ends Split on Turkey
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10305&D=2003-02-16&HC=1
The alliance of the United States and 15 other nations finally reached agreement late Sunday after a month of wrangling after France was shut out of talks. The other holdouts, Germany and Belgium, then dropped objections to begin planning to defend Turkey in the event of an attack by neighboring Iraq, NATO officials said.

Turkish Press stories on Iraq (long)
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10380&D=2003-02-18&HC=1
...
HERE IS LAST PROPOSAL
The paper listed the demands of Turkish government from the U.S. before submitting its motion on deployment of foreign soldiers in Turkey and sending soldiers abroad. Turkey asked for 10 billion dollars of donation and 15 billion dollars of long-term credit from the U.S. to meet its losses stemming from a possible Iraqi war. Turkey also asked the U.S. to meet all of its military expenses, to erase its military credits and to set up qualified industry zones.
In-line snarking...
$10 billion donation
$15 billion line of credit
Pick up Turkish military's bar tab for 2003 Iraq party
Forgive Turkish Military's debt at PX
Set up qualified industry (free trade?)zones

Ankara To Washington: We Are Ready Whenever You Are Ready
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10365&D=2003-02-18&HC=1
Foreign Minister Yasar Yakis said early on Tuesday that the government couldn't submit the second motion on deployment of foreign soldiers in Turkey to the parliament on Feb. 18, adding the government was ready to submit it to the parliament in the shortest possible time when the conditions were fulfilled.

Brits, Turks waffle on Iraq
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10359&D=2003-02-18&HC=1
U.S. allies Britain and Turkey appeared to waver yesterday in their resolve to back quick military action against Iraq with or without UN approval.

Money gobbling Turks - whose goose will be cooked?
Yet another Turkish delay of a request by Washington for the deployment of up to 40,000 American troops in Turkey.

Turkey's parliament has not received a government request for U.S. troop deployment, Middle East Newsline reported. Officials said the government of Prime Minister Abdullah Gul will not ask for a parliamentary vote until negotiations over a U.S. compensation package with Turkey are completed. "The United States has thousands of troops on ships waiting outside of Turkish ports," a Western diplomatic source said. "This situation is quickly coming to a head. It's a matter of hours and days."

Latest Turkish press news
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10402&D=2003-02-19&HC=1
(pix of US equipment offloading from ships)

Turkey moves to allow in U.S. troops
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10471&D=2003-02-20&HC=1
Ankara moved Thursday to end a standoff with Washington by announcing it would send to parliament a motion to allow U.S. troops to deploy in Turkey, but U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said he wanted a reply by the end of the day.

Todays Turkish Press Scan
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10447&D=2003-02-20&HC=1
...
ERDOGAN CHALLENGES
Justice and Development Party (AK Party) leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan reacted harshly to the U.S. administration. Erdogan said, ''we will not accept verbal guarantee. Many agreements have been made so far, but none of them has been taken into consideration. Prime Ministry will not prepare the motion before our demands have been fulfilled.'' Erdogan said, ''they always expect us to make concession. Nobody has the right to make Turkey to pay a cost as it had happened in 1991. First of all, the demands should be met.'' AK Party leader Erdogan stated that, ''we will not accept verbal guarantee. The agreement that would be made should be like the international agreements.''

SENER: EVERYTHING MAY CHANGE IN FIVE MINUTES
Council of Ministers discussed in details the developments experienced in Iraq. However, the motion regarding deployment of the U.S. soldiers in Turkey was not brought to signature at the meeting. Government Spokesman Abdullatif Sener said no decision has been taken regarding the motion. Responding to the questions of reporters, Sener said, ''you ask me the situations that may occur within some hours. However, very new developments may occur within five minutes.''

SHIPS WAITING FOR 'MOTION'
Although the parliament has not approved the motion that allows crossing of U.S. troops, an American vessel arrived at Iskenderun port and discharged 522 military vehicles. Meanwhile, it was mentioned that several ships that were carrying soldiers and ammunitions cast anchor off Cyprus and they were waiting for approval of ''motion''.

U.S. to Turkey: "Make up your damned mind!"
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10463&D=2003-02-20&HC=0
The United States appears to have ended its patience with Turkey and threatens to review their strategic relationship unless Ankara immediately approves the deployment of tens of thousands of American troops in Turkey. The new U.S. approach is being utilized amid another Turkish delay of a request by Washington for the deployment of up to 40,000 American troops in Turkey.

A Military Consensus with Turkey
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10450&D=2003-02-20&HC=0
Turkey and the US have reached a consensus on military matters concerning Iraq because Ankara got what it wanted from the US in this area.

Turkey-Bound U.S. Troops Land in Romania
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10491&D=2003-02-21&HC=1
Around 250 U.S. troops bound for Turkey arrived at a Romanian air base near the Black Sea port of Constanta, part of a buildup of forces for a possible war on Iraq, officials said Friday.

Turkey edges closer to deal with US
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10513&D=2003-02-22&HC=1
Washington and Ankara were edging towards a deal last night that could eventually allow American troops to be deployed in south-eastern Turkey, where they will prepare a northern front against Saddam Hussein's regime. But the success of any agreement, likely to include a compensation package of more than $26bn (Â£16.5bn), may yet depend on a free vote in Turkey's parliament, where large numbers of both opposition and government deputies are vocally anti-war.

Turkish Cabinet OKs U.S. Troop Deployment
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10592&D=2003-02-24&HC=1
Ending a high stakes diplomatic standoff, Turkey's Cabinet agreed Monday to the deployment of tens of thousands of U.S. combat troops ahead of a possible war in Iraq. The measure is expected to face a vote in Turkey's parliament on Tuesday.

Deal reached and second US ship started unloading in Iskenderun
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10586&D=2003-02-24&HC=1
Turkish news alert, Second US flagged freighter ''Antares'' started to unship military hardware in the port of Iskenderun.

And U.S., Turkey reach $15B agreement

*************************************************

Turkey U.S. troops vote hits hitch
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10632&D=2003-02-25&HC=1
Turkish and U.S. officials have failed to agree on the details of a deal to deploy tens of thousands of American troops during overnight talks, likely delaying a parliamentary vote authorizing the move.

Turkey Beefs Up Defenses
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10671&D=2003-02-26&HC=1
Turkey beefed up its defenses Wednesday, shipping Dutch ground-to-air missiles into a southern port as Washington increased pressure for permission to deploy troops for a possible invasion of Iraq.

TURKEY DEAL ON TROOPS
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10698&D=2003-02-27&HC=1
Turkey's Defence Ministry has reached an agreement with the US on troop deployment ahead of a crucial government vote on the issue. The US wants to base 62,000 troops, aircraft and helicopters in Turkey in the event of military action against neighbouring Iraq. They would be used to open up a second front, which analysts say would shorten any war and limit casualties. In return for its cooperation, America is offering Turkey $24bn worth of aid. Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul said: "Agreement is complete on the military issues. All that's being discussed is at what level (the deal) will be signed."

Turkey MPs urged to delay war vote
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10703&D=2003-02-27&HC=0
Turkey's ruling party has asked parliament to postpone a vote on whether to allow US troops to use Turkish territory to launch an attack against Iraq. Salih Kapusuz, a senior official of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP), said it wanted the decision - which had been expected later on Thursday after a string of delays - to be postponed until Saturday. No immediate explanation was given for the request, which came on the heels of an agreement between Ankara and Washington regarding compensation for Turkish military co-operation with the US.

***************************************

Turkey rejects U.S. troops
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10792&D=2003-03-01&HC=1
Turkey's parliament speaker says a motion to allow U.S. troops into the country for a possible Iraq war has been rejected, an MP told reporters. The issue is crucial to U.S. military plans and Turkey's relations with Washington. The vote, carried out behind closed doors, ended with 264 votes for and 251 votes against with 19 abstentions â an apparent slim victory for the government. But the opposition party challenged the result. The opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) argued that the government had not won the 267 votes needed to represent a majority of the 534 lawmakers present in the assembly.

No plans for new Turkey vote on US troops
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10803&D=2003-03-02&HC=1
The Turkish Government has no immediate plans to submit another motion to Parliament on deploying US troops for a possible Iraq war, a ruling party official said, a day after MPs rejected a similar motion. "The motion has been postponed indefinitely, there is no motion in the foreseeable future," Eyup Fatsa, deputy chairman of the Justice and Development Party's parliamentary group, was quoted by the Anatolia news agency as saying.

#2 My guess would be it's a result of the Islamist control of parliament, coupled with assiduous lobbying by Iraq and probably the Soddies. I think they really did choose up sides here, and that they expect to get paid by the eventual winners. They just don't expect the eventual winners to be us.
Posted by Fred 2003-03-02 09:18:51|| Front Page|| Comment Top

Supplies languish in Turkish port
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10846&D=2003-03-03&HC=1
Every day for the past two weeks, frustrated servicemembers have prepared to move equipment to forward locations as they waited for Turkey to give the OK to start unloading supplies.

Sunday was no different, as events in the Turkish parliament Saturday only served to confuse things. On Sunday, a long U.S. military convoy stretched the length of the seaport in Iskenderun, which is squeezed full with camouflaged trucks, Humvees and engineering equipment. With the port filling up with U.S. military equipment, 1st Infantry Division logisticians remain eager to move it out to make room for more.

Whether additional U.S. forces will land in Turkey is up in the air. A rancorous day in the Turkish parliament Saturday ended when there were not enough votes to approve a 60,000-strong U.S. combat force coming through Turkey to bolster a northern front against Iraq.

Turkish Chief of General Staff meets with Turkish Prime Minister
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10836&D=2003-03-03&HC=1
OZKOK VISITS GUL TO DISCUSS RECENT DEVELOPMENTS ON IRAQ
Chief of General Staff Gen. Hilmi Ozkok yesterday visited Prime Minister Abdullah Gul to evaluate Parliamentâs decision rejecting the proposals on Iraq. During their meeting, Ozkok briefed Gul on the recent situation of the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK). âIf Turkish troops enter the northern Iraq, this would cost to Turkey,â he said. âIt wouldnât be appropriate for the TSK to enter the northern Iraq under these conditions as it didnât get enough support from the US.â Gul stated that the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government asked for the US administration to warn the Iraqi opposition leaders who declared that they would consider Turkish troops as enemy if they enter northern Iraq, but that it wouldnât get a positive response from the US.

And then there is this:
OZKOK: WE SHOULD GO TILL BAGHDAD IN CASE WE ENTER NORTHERN IRAQ
Chief of General Staff Gen. Hilmi Ozkok paid a surprise visit to Prime Minister Abdullah Gul on Sunday. Ozkok wanted an additional budget for a possible intervention against Northern Iraq. Gen. Ozkok said, ''we should go till Baghdad if we enter Northern Iraq. We can not have the right to speak if we fail to go till Baghdad. Budget of defense should be reinforced in this respect.''

US hits roadblock in push to war
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10858&D=2003-03-04&HC=1
America admitted yesterday that the war due to begin as early as next week might have to be put back by at least a month because of Turkey's refusal to allow US ground troops to deploy there.

U.S. ABANDONS TURKEY AS SECOND FRONT
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10940&D=2003-03-05&HC=1
The Bush administration has abandoned the hope that Turkey will serve as a major front in the planned U.S.-led war against Iraq. Officials said the Defense Department has ordered U.S. Central Command to begin preparations to execute a contingency plan for a one-front war against Iraq.

*********************************************

We need US army, says Turkeyâs military chief
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=10954&D=2003-03-06&HC=1
Turkey's armed forces yesterday came out in favour of deploying thousands of US combat troops in the country for a second front against Iraq. Hilmi Ozkok, the chief of general staff, said the motion that was narrowly defeated by the parliament on Saturday was in Turkey's best interests. His unexpected remarks have boosted hopes within the Bush administration that the government will resubmit the Bill within the coming days and that with the generals' support it will be cleared. Gen Ozkok added that a second front in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq would speed up victory and minimise casualties. "The Turkish armed forces' view is the same as the government's," he said. "The war would be shorter, there would be less pain . . . fewer will die."

He added that economic aid from the United States in exchange for Turkish support would help mitigate the effects of a war with Turkey's Arab neighbour.

The Turkish military, which has seized power three times in the past four decades, remains hugely influential and few politicians dare go against its wishes.

Dozens of US Navy ships are anchored off Turkey's Mediterranean coast waiting to unload tons of equipment and thousands of soldiers who are set to transit through Turkey's largely Kurdish south-eastern provinces into Iraqi Kurdistan. The Bush administration, angered by Saturday's vote, has been threatening to cut Turkey out of its war plans and to create what Western diplomats here call a "northern front line" by parachuting troops into northern Iraq. Those warnings, coupled with the shelving of a $6 billion (Â£3.9 billion) American aid package, appear to have forced Turkey to rethink its strategy. The US has also indicated that it would oppose any unilateral moves by the Turkish military to enter northern Iraq in the absence of a deployment deal.

Erdogan Wins Vote, Poised to Lead Turkey - New Vote for G.I.âs on Thursday
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11088&D=2003-03-09&HC=1
Recep Tayyip Erdogan won a seat in parliament Sunday, a crucial victory that paves the way for him to become prime minister and strengthens his hand toward uniting the government on allowing in U.S. troops for an Iraq war. The charismatic Erdogan â already the nation's de facto leader â has advocated the U.S. troop deployment in Turkey, and analysts say one of his first moves as premier could be to purge ministers who oppose it.

Prime Minister Abdullah Gul is expected to resign Wednesday to make way for Erdogan to take over the government, after Erdogan's Justice and Development Party overwhelmingly won balloting in the southern town of Siirt. Town officials said Justice captured 84.7 percent of the final vote count. It was unclear when parliament would be ready to take up a new resolution on U.S. troop deployment, after lawmakers failed to approve a resolution last week. Turkish media say a vote could come as early as Thursday, but members of the Justice Party said it could be two weeks before a new government is in place.

Erdogan's election was likely to end some of the confusion within the Turkish government. Gul is head of the administration, but the Erdogan leads the ruling party and is widely regarded as the power behind the scenes. It was Erdogan whom President Bush invited to the White House after Turkey's national elections in November. Some analysts say those muddled lines of authority contributed to the failure of the resolution last week by a mere four votes in the 550-seat parliament â despite Justice's huge majority of 362 seats. Erdogan had been barred from running in November national elections because of a conviction for inciting religious hatred over a poem he read at a rally in Siirt, 60 miles north of the Iraqi border.

Justice lawmakers changed the constitution after the national vote to allow Erdogan to run for office Sunday. "In the November elections, the person who was the prime minister in our hearts was not able to become a deputy. This week this mistake, this shame is being rectified," said Deputy Prime Minister Ertugrul Yalcinbayir. The vote comes as Washington pressures Turkey to allow in U.S. combat troops to open a northern front against neighboring Iraq in a possible war. Ships carrying equipment for the soldiers are already off the Turkish coast, and it was unclear how long Washington could wait for a Turkish decision. Erdogan has hinted he will soon resubmit a troop deployment motion. Although the Turkish public is overwhelmingly against a war, Erdogan urged legislators after the failed vote to act "not to satisfy their daily emotions but toward the country's future."

Rebuffing the United States risks straining ties with Washington and losing a say in the future of neighboring Iraq â as well as a $15 billion U.S. aid package offered in exchange for hosting U.S. troops. "Recep Tayyip Erdogan's test in Siirt will determine the fate of the motion," Enis Berberoglu wrote in the Hurriyet newspaper. "If a result that pleases the (Justice party) emerges from the elections, then Erdogan's hand will be strengthened." The newspaper reported Saturday that Erdogan plans to sack four ministers who opposed the deployment, reducing the number of ministers from 24 to 20.

During Gul's premiership, Erdogan strongly influenced policy, and Cabinet ministers â including Gul â often consulted Erdogan after key meetings. Although Erdogan urged legislators to vote for the first failed resolution, his words are likely to have a stronger impact once he is in office. "It is one thing to run a government by remote control and another to sit in the prime minister's seat," said Ilnur Cevik, editor in chief of the Turkish Daily News. "Gul knew he was a transition prime minister and exerting your will on the party is very hard if you are a lame duck prime minister." The Siirt by-elections were scheduled after Turkey's election board ruled that a ballot box there had been tampered with during the national vote.

Turkish News
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11159&D=2003-03-11&HC=1
BUSH PHONES BUT CAN'T GET PROMISE
U.S. President George W. Bush, who spoke to Justice and Development Party (AK Party) leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan by phone and congratulated him on being elected as deputy, was not satisfied with the issue of motion. Bush asked Erdogan when the second motion would be submitted to parliament. When he was expecting a positive response, Erdogan listed Turkey's reservations. Erdogan wanted participation of Turkmens in the leadership council and increase of economic package.

ACTIVITY CONTINUES IN BASES AND PORTS
Activity continues in bases and Iskenderun port which will play an important role for northern front in a possible U.S. military operation against Iraq. Major Ruhi Caliskan who confiscated weapons of U.S. soldiers who tried to leave the port without permission was assigned to another department in the port.
Slap on the wrist because it made the news.
A total of 46 vehicles went to Mardin, Gaziantep and Silopi. There is also activity in Incirlik Base. A total of 15 buses carrying U.S. soldiers went from Incirlik Base to Gaziantep. Dispatch of military equipment and vehicles from Iskenderun port continued on Tuesday within the framework of renovation in bases and ports. Sources told A.A correspondent that trucks loaded with military vehicles and equipment left the port in the morning. Meanwhile, routine activities continued in Incirlik base in Yuregir town of southern Adana province. Hangar doors are open while a tanker plane and C-17 cargo plane landed at the base. Renovation also continues in the base.

Turks Add A Hurdle To U.S. War Plans
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11225&D=2003-03-12&HC=1
Hardening their position, Turkey's leaders insist they need further assurances about post-war Iraq before they allow U.S. troops to deploy along the border for an attack. In a new complication, they also are refusing to let the Pentagon use Turkish airspace without approval from parliament.

"The United States and Turkey have reached an agreement, but the missing piece is a counterpart agreement between the United States and the Iraqi Kurds," he said. "Turkey says it wants assurances from Washington, but what would really help are assurances from the Iraqi Kurds."

Turkey calls weekend debate
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11241&D=2003-03-13&HC=1
The Turkish parliament is being called to sit this weekend, as international attention focuses on a possible second vote on US troop deployment. The motion was narrowly rejected on 1 March, halting US preparations for a northern front in any war against Iraq. Newly-appointed Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has hinted that he may reintroduce the motion, although on Wednesday Foreign Minister Yasar Yakis made clear there was no guarantee of this.

Chirac basks in warm glow of adulation
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11240&D=2003-03-13&HC=1
Jacques Chirac basked yesterday in an unprecedented show of adulation as newspapers, commentators and politicians of all hues showered the French president with praise for his promise to veto a UN resolution giving the green light for an attack on Iraq. The possible longer-term economic and political consequences for France of the president's move, as well as the impact on world order as expressed in the United Nations, were largely ignored as the nation rallied proudly round a leader whom the Catholic newspaper La Croix compared to Nelson Mandela.

Todayâs Turkish Press on Irag
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11271&D=2003-03-14&HC=1
WASHINGTON OFFICIALLY ASKS ANKARA FOR OVER FLIGHT PERMISSION, USE OF SEVERAL TURKISH MILITARY AIRBASES
ERDOGAN HOLDS A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION WITH CHENEY
U.S. PRESIDENT BUSH CALLS FOR URGENT RESPONSE FOR MOTION AND AIR SPACE
A LITTLE SPACE BETWEEN GENERAL STAFF AND POLITICAL LEADERSHIP

Turkey Signals Delay on U.S. Troop Deal
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11314&D=2003-03-15&HC=1
Turkey's new government signaled Saturday it would wait at least another week to decide about the deployment of U.S. forces on its soil, but the United States appeared to be losing hope of using Turkey to open a northern front against Iraq. A senior U.S. official said Washington has now retracted its offer to give Turkey $15 billion in economic aid if it allowed the U.S. deployment. "The package was time-bound and we have moved on time-wise," the official said on condition of anonymity.

U.S. Takes Back Turkey Aid Package
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11344&D=2003-03-16&HC=1
As U.S. hopes dwindled of going through Turkey for an attack on Iraq, the Bush administration took back its offer to give $15 billion in aid to Turkey in exchange for military cooperation.

Turkey to allow US troops.
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11413&D=2003-03-17&HC=1
Top Turkish leaders say government will urgently take action toward allowing in U.S. troops, according to a statement.

Turkish Press Scan /Review for Monday
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11392&D=2003-03-17&HC=1
TEN SHIPS UNLOAD 2087 MILITARY VEHICLES AT ISKENDERUN PORT
''U.S. TO FIGHT AGAINST IRAQ WITHOUT TURKEY''
''WE HAVE NOT BREAK OFF TIES WITH U.S.''
''15 BILLION DOLLARS HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED''
OZILHAN: ''MOTION MAY NOT BE ADOPTED''
LAST WEEK FOR BARGAINING BETWEEN TURKEY AND U.S.

************************************************

Keep out of Kurdish areas, US warns Turkey
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11384&D=2003-03-17&HC=1
Thirteen missile-firing US warships yesterday sailed into the Red sea to obtain a clear line of fire against Iraqi targets following Turkey's refusal to open its airspace to American forces preparing the assault on Saddam Hussein. In a sign that exchanges between the Nato allies have degenerated into political threats, the US warned Ankara to abandon plans to send troops into Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq.

Reports: Turkey might rethink troop decision
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11431&D=2003-03-18&HC=1
Turkey's parliament might reconsider letting U.S. troops use its territory if war with Iraq breaks out, according to Turkish media reports. Turkish officials, including the president, prime minister, foreign minister and armed forces chief, met Monday to discuss the possible war with Iraq.

After the meeting, a government spokesman said, "Turkey must fulfill its obligations to its allies," setting off a flood of speculation that parliament would vote on allowing U.S. troops to use Turkish bases. Parliament has a regular session scheduled for Tuesday, but it was not known whether the troops issue would be on the agenda. Ankara had been under intense pressure to allow U.S. forces to use its territory to open a northern front against Iraq. Parliament rejected a measure this month that would have let the United States base 62,000 troops in the country.

********************************************

President Bush Makes it Official
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11489&D=2003-03-19&HC=1
March 18, 2003

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH

**********************************************

Turkey opens airspace but blocks airbases
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11522&D=2003-03-20&HC=1
The Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, confirmed last night that he will ask parliament to allow the US overflight rights for a war on Iraq but to deny the Americans use of their bases in Turkey. In a move scuppering plans for a heavily armoured "northern front" against Saddam Hussein, it is expected that the vote, due today, would not even allow US planes to refuel on Turkish soil.

The new motion will also include a request for parliament to authorise sending Turkish troops to northern Iraq where it is feared Iraqi Kurds may try to win independence, fuelling separatist sentiment among the 15 million-strong Kurdish population in Turkey. Iraqi Kurdish groups, meeting in Ankara, reiterated yesterday that such a move would be incendiary and warned of Turkish intervention sparking clashes with local forces.

Under the proposed vote, the US would not be able to use Incirlik airbase, a facility that houses 50 US fighters used to patrol the no-fly zone over Iraq and a key hub in the Afghan conflict. Asked whether parliament's authorisation would include the right to use Turkish airbases, Mr Erdogan replied: "No, none of these are included." Last night Ankara said the possible basing of US combat troops on Turkish soil would be discussed at a later date.

The use of Turkish airspace is a far cry from the crucial role Washington hoped its ally would play in any military action. Attacking from Turkey could have made a war swifter and, for US soldiers, potentially less bloody. A US official said the Muslim state now no longer qualified for the $15bn aid package agreed after weeks of intensive bargaining. Instead, it is believed, Washington has pledged to prop up Turkey's troubled economy through international institutions such as the IMF. Local financial markets tumbled in early trading yesterday, and stocks fell by almost 8%.

Even opposition parliamentarians, who yesterday vowed to reject the new resolution, expressed relief that the US deployment drama was finally over. "Turkey's relationship with the United States goes back 50 years to the Korean war," Abdulkadir Ates, a prominent opposition politician, said. "One incident shouldn't jeopardise that."

But political analysts beg to differ. Many said the ruling Islamic-orientated Justice and Development party had made Turkey pay a heavy price for its clumsy handling of the affair. Although it has not been ruled out that Turkey could still be used at a future stage of a war, most complained it was unlikely Ankara would be able to strike a deal of the kind previously reached. "What has happened is disastrous for Turkey... Its bargaining power has been nullified because the US has gone with other plans," Ilnur Cevink, a leading commentator, said. A US official said: "They're insisting on preserving their right in principle to go in but we've told the Turks this should not be their first option. As a possibility it is cause for great concern."

Turkey Delays Opening Airspace Again
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11635&D=2003-03-21&HC=1
Turkish airspace remains closed Friday to U.S. and British warplanes, as Turkish and U.S. officials work to resolve Ankara's demand that its troops be allowed to enter northern Iraq. Negotiations have entered a second day in Ankara, after the two sides held talks through the night in the Turkish capital without reaching an agreement. Turkey says it needs a military presence in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq to prevent a possible influx of refugees into southeastern Turkey. But the United States is firmly opposed, fearing conflict between Turkish troops and Iraqi Kurd forces and a disruption to the U.S. campaign against Saddam Hussein.

Ankara is also asking the United States to provide information on the type of planes, their missions and destination ahead of overflights. U.S. officials are reported to consider the degree of detail excessive.

The Turkish parliament voted Thursday to allow U.S. overflights, but turned down a U.S. military request to use Turkish bases for refueling and as a launching point for air strikes against Iraq.

Ziyal: U.S. Ambassador Does Not Bring Message Which Will End The Problem
U.S. Ambassador in Ankara Robert Pearson did not bring any message which will end the problem between Turkey and the United States pertaining to opening of air corridor and entrance of Turkish soldiers in Northern Iraq. Diplomatic sources said Pearson did not bring a message which would end the problem during his 10-minute meeting with Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Ugur Ziyal. Ankara was waiting for a response from Washington regarded with opening of air corridor and entrance of Turkish soldiers in Northern Iraq.

Turkey fails to open airspace
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11613&D=2003-03-21&HC=1
Turkey has delayed opening its airspace to US aircraft because of disagreements over its military role in northern Iraq.
The Turkish parliament gave consent for the overflights on Thursday, but overnight talks between US and Turkish officials failed to resolve key issues. "We have taken a break in talks with the US because there are major brick walls snags both concerning airspace use and movement of Turkish troops into Iraq," a Foreign Ministry official told the Associated Press news agency. Talks are due to resume on Friday evening.

The US does not want Turkish forces to enter Iraq, fearing possible clashes with the local Kurdish forces. Large numbers of Turkish troops are reported to have massed on the border. Press reports say some units have already crossed over.

Pentagon Abandons Turkey Deployment Plan
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11691&D=2003-03-22&HC=1
After weeks of waiting off Turkey's coast, dozens of U.S. ships carrying weaponry for the Army's 4th Infantry Division have been redirected to the Persian Gulf.
...
The redirected cargo ships are to begin arriving off the coast of Kuwait about March 30, one official said. All the ships would arrive by about April 10.

Kurdish leaders step up war of words with Turkey
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11715&D=2003-03-23&HC=1
Kurdish leaders yesterday accused Turkey of delaying the long-awaited northern offensive by US forces to topple Saddam Hussein. "The Americans are so frustrated with the Turks it is unbelievable," said Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurdish leader, yesterday after talks with American and Turkish officials in Ankara.

In one incident the US was particularly angered when its strike aircraft were unable to give prompt support to a combined unit of US special forces and peshmerga (Kurdish soldiers) involved in a firefight with the Iraqi army, according to sources in Washington.

**********************************************

Belgium warns Turkey not to enter Iraq
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=11786&D=2003-03-24&HC=1
Belgium has issued a warning to Turkey no to misuse the war as an opportunity to invade Iraq. Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt joined Germany's Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer in threatening Turkey with trouble within NATO if the Turkish army enters the Kurdish region of Iraq, local media reported Monday. Rumours have been circulating that Turkish troops entered Iraq to subdue the Kurds. Belgian Foreign Minister Louis Michel said that Turkish interference would jeopardize the country's ambition to join the European Union. Verhofstadt said that Belgian support for the possible defence of Turkey could be withdrawn if Turkey enters Iraq.

...Sorry, I couldn't resist adding that last one...

***********************************************

And we haven't even BUGUN to adreess the fallout: the unpacified Sunni Triangle...

One thing you both seem to be assuming is that Turkey wants to "be back on board". Where does that come from? They moved away from us - and they're not coming back, folks. They're now an Islamic-run democracy - whatever the fuck that is. Given their track record thus far, I'd say it's not only a mess, but utterly and completely an untrustworthy mess.

Oh well, these tiny little disagreements are the stuff of life, I guess. I wonder, what's the stuff of death? Specifically the dead US soldiers due to Turkey's "Oops!"... Just brush it off cuz they wanna play nice while it suits them?

My hat's off to you - you're a LOT nicer about it than I am.

My take.

Posted by .com 2005-10-06 11:33|| 2005-10-06 11:33|| Front Page Top

#9 Sheesh, after all that work...

It's "BEGUN" and "address" - apologies.

Posted by .com 2005-10-06 11:36|| 2005-10-06 11:36|| Front Page Top

#10 Sorry I didn't have as much time to read it all as you had to put it together. But I hold France as responsible for the deaths of those troops as Turkey. And I'd count in a lot that have died since the conclusion of major hostilities since they result form the 4ID not being able to deal with the Sunnis wholesale during combat. So what do you want to do about France? And Germany?

It's good to rant to get it out of the system so it doesn't corrupt your rational mind when it'sÃÂ time to plan.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-10-06 11:38|| 2005-10-06 11:38|| Front Page Top

#11 I was in traffic court once and listened to the judge I was about to face uphold a ticket on a guy who had been rear-ended in the left turn lane. His ticket was for Failure to Yield - when he was knocked into oncoming traffic after being hit. You see, the logic was that he had already turned his wheels to make the left turn. The "judge" reasoned that this made HIM culpable, not the idiot that crashed into him and sent him careering into the other cars.

Blaming France is the same twisted logic applied to my assertion regards Turkey, bro.

Turkey had the choice to allow us the courtesy of passage, customary among allies. They did not. I would like to clarify one thing - it's the leadership that I despise, just as with France and Germany. Their leaders are the assholes who created the rifts we have with them. If they dump the Islamic shits, then we'll see who they replace them with and whether or not we can deal with them with any confidence. The Turkish people? Just like me and you. Same for the Germans. The French, lol, well I'll take JFM and Anon5089 - not too crazy 'bout the rest.

We can disagree. I laid out the entire unbelievable duplicitous sequence to demonstrate that, as allies, Erdogan's Govt isn't worth warm spit, that's all. That's what I should do, make my case, if it's what I believe, no? I'm cool. Are you?

Posted by .com 2005-10-06 11:56|| 2005-10-06 11:56|| Front Page Top

#12 Yup. I doubt anybody agrees about everything. I think this one is a close call.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-10-06 12:02|| 2005-10-06 12:02|| Front Page Top

#13 Quick followup question: if we are to act in US (and allies') interests, where is it actually an important US interest to pretend we're all palsy-walsy again with Turkey? Personally, I don't see much they can do for us, specifically.

I'm not saying I mind doing them a favor or two, such as helping where we can with the EU thingy, but we certainly can't expect any quid pro quo, given their perfromance thus far, and what would it be, anyway?

Hell, I want to slice off about 1/3 of their country and give it to the Kurds. Think they'll go for that, heh?

Posted by .com 2005-10-06 12:09|| 2005-10-06 12:09|| Front Page Top

#14 Well, I have friends who command units in the 4th ID, so I'm pretty familiar with that runup, .com.

The strategic importance of Turkey to the region is hard to overstate. I had a conversation with a senior government minister from before Erdogan's party took office and he was very clear about water as a basis of their potential power re: Iran, Iraq and other countries to the south and west of them.

And while from time to time we have people swagger through the 'Burg suggesting that any Turkish dams could be blown up, that ignores the larger issue - namely that it is in our own strategic interests for Iraq to succeed as a democratic and economically prospering country. IMO encouraging a breakaway Kurdish state is NOT in our interests at this point.

It's an iffy thing to work with Erdogan. Never said or thought otherwise. But way too often IMO people who frequent the comments section here get wrapped up in the littler picture and ignore - or are oblivious to - the bigger one.

The role of Turkish agriculture and industry as a member or associate of the EU is one of those longer range things that will have a bigger impact on the region than the inability to take the Sunni Triangle from above and below. And yes - that latter opinion is backed in conversations with me by some commanders who've fought in the triangle.

Posted by lotp 2005-10-06 12:34|| 2005-10-06 12:34|| Front Page Top

#15 I think we should support it because they deserve each other.

Posted by DoDo 2005-10-06 12:37|| 2005-10-06 12:37|| Front Page Top

#16 I think the palsy-walsy stuff doesn't have much, if anything to do with Iraq. I think Turkey's a sharp stick that Bush occasionally pushes into Chirac's rump, or maybe into the EU rump as a whole. I'm sure he'd dump Erdogan/Gul in a flash if there was a semi-legit opportunity to replace them with people who were at least less clumsily duplicitous.

Posted by Fred 2005-10-06 12:44|| 2005-10-06 12:44|| Front Page Top

#17 Your point re: Chiraq and the EU is a good one, Fred, but I still think there's a bigger move than that going on.

No doubt we could do without Erdogan and Gul. I'm less sure we want to ditch Turkey as a whole. Their effect on Iraq is a concern, but mostly in the context of the overall picture for the region.

We were pretty aggressive in the 'Stans and Russia and China are pushing back. We'll keep some influence & presence there, lose some - inevitable, given the geography and their location.

But Turkey's another and more pressing matter - especially if Putin loses power to the harder KGBites who are pressing him closely. But even if not. To paraphrase the SECDEF, you play geopolitical chess with the countries you have not the ones you wish you could create.

At least until/as you try to influence the shape they take going forward.

That's the strategic move in the region IMO. How much can be done with Turkey remains to be seen, especially WRT Erdogan's gang. But the effort needs to be made -- and it is not, contrary to suggestions occasionally made here and elsewhere, a sign of wussiness. Rather it's a sign of taking the broader/longer view with the full knowledge that the next 20-30 years are going to be as tumultuous and full of danger / opportunity as any we've seen in centuries.

Posted by lotp 2005-10-06 13:20|| 2005-10-06 13:20|| Front Page Top

#18 What Turkey did to us was out-and-out betrayal of the most obvious sort imaginable. They sold us out for what they probably perceived to be a helthy application of grease to the EU-joining skids. Whether or not this turns out for them is immaterial. They betrayed us in our hour of need, and we continue to pay the price both with the blood of our soldiers and also in less obvious ways:

What would Bush's position be in terms of accomplishing US goals both foriegn and domestic if there wasn't the millstone of the Sunni Triangle resistance sapping his strength?

I place Turkey's betrayal higher than even that of the French who were, in the end, acting predictably and true to form even in scope it exceeded anything they had done previously. But the Turks caused critical time to slip away, and more importantly, drastically reduced our strategic options at the last minute, DIRECTLY resulting in the Sunni triangle resistance.

And one can't see these actions in the interpersonal terms that international relationships are sometimes reduced to in a kind of anthropomorphic shorthand -- our "friends" made a "mistake" cuz they're only "human", and we should be big enough to "forgive" them. These events transpired between NATIONS, not individuals. Per Bismark, nations don't have friends, only interests. Hopefully there is a kind of governmental deep memory that has grasped the nature of Turkey and will always retain it, regardless of which party is in power.

Posted by docob 2005-10-06 14:05|| 2005-10-06 14:05|| Front Page Top

#19 Good discussion, folks. I have some questions and comments:

1. I know Condi made favorable statements for Turkey to be allowed to join the EU. What is the point? Is it a throw-away line or is it a statement to curry favor with Turkey? It seems to me that the issue of Turkey joining the EU is between the EU and Turkey, and is really none of the business of the US. I would think that EU nations don't want us mucking about in their own issues, just a we do not want the EU messing in the internal affairs of the states and the US federal government.

2. Turkey really shafted the US during OIF. We wound up with a hammer without an anvil, and it cost us AND Iraqis dearly, which included lives lost. Basically we were jacked around and shook down for money. That is were we were but here we are now. We must deal with Turkey and not be vindictive. Their actions will cost them dearly in trust. We will have to deal with them, because they are important neighbors to Iraq. The main thing is that we do not buy the farm again from them. No more payoffs. We will work with them, but we will not trust them. But, hey, that is the nature of the Middle East, eh? Comes with the territory.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-10-06 18:07|| 2005-10-06 18:07|| Front Page Top

00:27 JosephMendiola
00:00 William Gates
23:54 JAB
23:48 JosephMendiola
23:46 DMFD
23:37 jules 2
23:30 Ernest Brown
23:29 .com
23:26 Captain America
23:23 .com
23:23 Alaska Paul
23:20 .com
23:18 JosephMendiola
23:16 jules 2
23:10 jules 2
23:02 SteveS
22:58 .com
22:55 .com
22:44 jules 2
22:37 Frank G
22:35 Frank G
22:15 Alaska Paul
22:08 OregonGuy
21:47 3dc