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2007-10-10 Iraq
Iraq Demands $136 Million for Families in Blackwater Shooting
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Posted by Fred 2007-10-10 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ]  Top
 File under: Iraqi Insurgency 

#1 Make it a few more people BW. Kill these idiots that proposed the suit against you.
Posted by 3dc 2007-10-10 01:23||   2007-10-10 01:23|| Front Page Top

#2 And a Pony!
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-10-10 03:20||   2007-10-10 03:20|| Front Page Top

#3 Oi vey.
Posted by gromgoru 2007-10-10 07:36||   2007-10-10 07:36|| Front Page Top

#4 .
The linked article says that the Iraqi Government also that "the U.S. government cut its ties with Blackwater within six months."

I assume that the Iraqi Government determined this interim, transition period in consultation with the US Government.

The six-month interim will enable the US Government to request bids, filter down the multitude of bids to the four or five best and select the new contractor(s). (The work might be divided among several winning contractors.)

The newly contracted US security companies then will need a few months to hire personnel, provide training and guidance about rules of engagement and reporting procedures, and then put those personnel into place in Iraq.

In the meantime Blackwater will have to continue to fulfill the conditions of its current contract fully. During this interim six months, if the State Department assigns Blackwater to guard Iraqi officials on occasion, then Blackwater will have to comply with its current contract and do so.

Eventually the important work of guarding US and other officials in Iraq with the help of private security companies will continue under the management of a company other than Blackwater.

In the meantime, Blackwater should strive to repair the damage that has been done by this incident. The incident should be investigated and reported thoroughly and blame should be assigned objectively and fairly. Blackwater should compensate the families of innocent victims, and I think that a settlement far smaller than $136 million would be accepted.

The lessons will be many. People must continue to recognize and appreciate that these miscalculations and overreactions are inevitable in such a threatening and violent situation as exists in Iraq. On the other hand, the security companies and personnel must accept that the US Government is paying a lot of money for the exercise of good judgement in such incidents and for frank and detailed reporting afterward.

In cases where security personnel do overract and exercise bad judgement, then they should be disciplined and (in some cases) fired and (in extreme cases) subjected to criminal prosecution.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 08:41||   2007-10-10 08:41|| Front Page Top

#5 You guys missed the little but important piece ...The Associated Press says.... It's a regurgitation of another source. Yesterday this was posted here. To quote;" Baghdad - The Iraqi Government did not release any statements calling for compensations from Blackwater, the US security company, Iraqi Government spokesman Ali al-Dabagh said Tuesday."

Let's just remember the 'usual suspects' [i.e. AP, Al Reuters, etc] involved. It's not about the facts, it's about the narrative.
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-10-10 09:14||   2007-10-10 09:14|| Front Page Top

#6 Yup. And since there are power plays within Iraq that are ... interrupted ... by the surge, it's about some in Iraq shaping that narrative by presuming to speak for the government, when they don't.
Posted by lotp 2007-10-10 09:15||   2007-10-10 09:15|| Front Page Top

#7 Let's just remember the 'usual suspects' [i.e. AP, Al Reuters, etc] involved. It's not about the facts, it's about the narrative.

The linked article was published by the Voice of America, so it is a statement of the US Government.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 09:55||   2007-10-10 09:55|| Front Page Top

#8 Nope. That's now how VOA works. While it is funded by the US government, it is managed by a separate Board. Broadcasts are taken from other news outlets and are not official statements of the government nor should they necessarily be taken to reflect the government's point of view.
Posted by lotp 2007-10-10 09:59||   2007-10-10 09:59|| Front Page Top

#9 now not
Posted by lotp 2007-10-10 10:00||   2007-10-10 10:00|| Front Page Top

#10 The problem is Mike, despite your thinking so, you are not in full posession of all the facts, only the "publicly available" spin and half truths, as generated by the Maliki government, and then filtered through the press and reporter's bias.

Its akin to uncritically taking a press release verbatim from Josef Goebbels about how well those nasty Jews burned the Reichstag.

Stop being so gullable.

Dig deeper, the truth is out there.
Posted by OldSpook 2007-10-10 10:50||   2007-10-10 10:50|| Front Page Top

#11 Hey, it was a work accident. File it with OSHA.
Posted by JohnQC 2007-10-10 11:06||   2007-10-10 11:06|| Front Page Top

#12 The Iraqi Government certainly is well informed about its own investigation and also probably is well informed about the US Government's investigation of this incident. There has been plenty of time for both governments to investigate the incident, reach their own conclusions, and consult with each other about further actions.

The Iraqi Government's firm position on this matter certainly is based on all the investigations and on its knowledge of the US Government's own conclusions and position.

It's pretty clear that Blackwater will be replaced by another or by several other private security companies in the next six months and that the US Goverment has decided to comply and to facilitate the change.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 11:25||   2007-10-10 11:25|| Front Page Top

#13 Iraq should compensate the families of the four savaged and murdered Blackwater employees in Fallejuh in 2004.
Posted by JohnQC 2007-10-10 11:28||   2007-10-10 11:28|| Front Page Top

#14 Mike - where is the grassy knoll?
Posted by 3dc 2007-10-10 12:14||   2007-10-10 12:14|| Front Page Top

#15 Iraq should compensate the families of the four savaged and murdered Blackwater employees in Fallejuh in 2004.

That's a good point, but it also is a reminder that some Blackwater employees might on occasion feel justified in extracting some personal vengeance on random Iraqis who happen to be on the scene in an incident like this.

Those feelings are understandable, but it also is understandable that the US Government has to require that Blackwater employees maintain professional attitudes at all times.

Blackwater had to weed out its few emotional overreactors constantly and ruthlessly. On those occasions when some Blackwater employees do lose their own self control, then the company should not try to protect them at the risk of the company's own survival.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 12:35||   2007-10-10 12:35|| Front Page Top

#16 The problem is Mike, despite your thinking so, you are not in full posession of all the facts, only the "publicly available" spin and half truths, as generated by the Maliki government, and then filtered through the press and reporter's bias.

Mike, remember our exchange about how the American public is under-informed or outright misinformed about Islam by the Mainstream Media? Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall you finally being honest enough to concede that public opinion about what constitutes actual torture and the applicability of its use might differ were it not for the media's under-reporting about Islam's predations upon the west.

What makes you think this case is any different? Maliki is a twobit thug and wanna be warlord. Here's some background on Maliki by Khudayr Taher that you probably missed:
He added that Maliki "does not believe in democracy because of his ideological commitments" in al-Da'wa Party, claiming that political Islam and democracy do not meet for someone like Maliki.

In a private discussion held when both men were in Syria, Maliki told Taher: "We declare our acceptance of democracy, but in reality, we are tricking them [the Americans] in order to topple Saddam and come to power." Taher writes: "I swear to God that this is exactly what he said!"

Taher adds that Maliki does not believe in the equality of women and will refuse to give any cabinet posts to Iraqi women, unless those imposed by the Kurds. He wraps up by saying that Maliki is anti-American, and has expressed his anti-American views to friends and in private discourse.
[emphasis added]

I urge you to read the entire article. An Iraqi Shi'ite immigrant, Khudayr Taher is an exceptionally brave individual. You will be stunned by what he has to say regarding Muslim immigrants in America.

The media hates America and will do anything within its power to destroy Western culture, especially Christian-based societies. Witness how Dan Rather attempted to throw a presidential election with patently false evidence. It's long past tea to begin taking the media's intense anti-American bias into account while viewing the news.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-10-10 13:20||   2007-10-10 13:20|| Front Page Top

#17 In the meantime, Blackwater should strive to repair the damage that has been done by this incident.

I can think of several steps--offing Maliki being one of them.
Posted by Crusader 2007-10-10 13:28||   2007-10-10 13:28|| Front Page Top

#18 I can think of several steps--offing Maliki being one of them.

Let's see if this continues to generate the outrage it did when I suggested it a few months ago. One caveat, Blackwater should not do the offing.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-10-10 13:31||   2007-10-10 13:31|| Front Page Top

#19 Re #16 (Zenster) What makes you think this case is any different? Maliki is a twobit thug and wanna be warlord.

The situation is that 16 Iraqis were killed and some more were wounded. And nobody else was shot.

Also, many witnesses present at the scene have been interviewed, and their observations have been reported publicly.

This is not a situation where we intelligent US citizens are at the mercy of whatever Maliki might tell us.

The information about the incident that is publicly available is sufficient to deduce reasonably that only Blackwater personnel were shooting any weapons at the scene.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 13:51||   2007-10-10 13:51|| Front Page Top

#20 The information about the incident that is publicly available is sufficient to deduce reasonably that only Blackwater personnel were shooting any weapons at the scene.

"The information about the incident that is publically available" is not a sufficient substitute for a trial under the UCMJ; your main beef with Blackwater seems to be that they are unwilling to confess guilt for murder on behalf of their employees.and make any attempt by them to defend themselves in court much more difficult or impossible.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-10-10 14:18||   2007-10-10 14:18|| Front Page Top

#21 This is not a situation where we intelligent US citizens are at the mercy of whatever Maliki might tell us.

No, it's a situation where the intelligent US citizens are at the mercy of whatever lies the MSM might tell us.

The information about the incident that is publicly available is sufficient to deduce reasonably that only Blackwater personnel were shooting any weapons at the scene.

I am also terribly sceptical of the Mike Nifong's of the world who are ready to read the verdict before the trial. Must be something about the name Mike.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-10-10 14:42||   2007-10-10 14:42|| Front Page Top

#22 The situation is that 16 Iraqis were killed and some more were wounded. And nobody else was shot.

Suffice to say that Muslims are not renowned for their marksmanship.

Also, many witnesses present at the scene have been interviewed, and their observations have been reported publicly.

I refer you, once again, to the reportorial bias our military encounters. There's also this nasty little Muslim habit called taqiyya which makes anything they say rather suspect. Finally, try to imagine just how eager certain Iraqi factions are to give America any sort of black eye that they can. Do you honestly think that they will not resort to lies, distortions and smears of any sort?

This is not a situation where we intelligent US citizens are at the mercy of whatever Maliki might tell us.

No, but we remain at the mercy of the media which has consistently demonstrated a complete lack of reportorial ethics.

The information about the incident that is publicly available is sufficient to deduce reasonably that only Blackwater personnel were shooting any weapons at the scene.

Again, all that is "publicly available" is what the media decides we need to hear. I'm not trying to give Blackwater a free pass but if their employees were a bunch of gun-toting yahoos, we'd have had many more incidents like this already. That has not been the case. Yesterday's comments by mcsegeek carry a lot of weight, seeing as how he has been to Iraq and you have not:

Mike, have you ever been to Iraq? I have. There is no "stampede of companies" who want to do security work there. Blackwater was and is doing a DAMN FINE job, and they protected my ass while I was in theater, I can assure you.

The entire thing is a political railroading, consisting of half-truths and downright lies. These guys were some of the bravest and most dedicated folks I met there. You have no idea the threats they face every day. Dozens of their employees have been killed or wounded protecting American contractors (such as me) while NOT ONE of the people they are protecting has suffered the same fate.
[emphasis added]

That last sentence speaks volumes. It indicates some solid professionalism and definite restraint in the use of force. Any lack thereof would have produced a slough of similar incidents a long time ago.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-10-10 14:44||   2007-10-10 14:44|| Front Page Top

#23 Must be something about the name Mike.

Hey! You dissin' me? I'll kick yo ass!
Posted by Mike Tyson">Mike Tyson  2007-10-10 14:46||   2007-10-10 14:46|| Front Page Top

#24 some Blackwater employees might on occasion feel justified in extracting some personal vengeance on random Iraqis

weed out its few emotional overreactors

My God Mike. I was just going to sit idly by and let you drive the train until it wrecked. But man, you're biting off way more than you can chew. Now you know what Blackwater employees are FEELING? Astonishing! Mike the mind reader.

I've personally met and been protected by several Blackwater folks. You sir have not. Even with having worked closely with them for more than a month, I would never presume to know what their FEELINGS were unless they told me.

But lucky you! Some of them did, and now I can share it with you. Without going into too many details, I can tell you they were painstaking and thorough in making sure of their targets when it came to force. Many of them bemoaned the fact that the attacks against them were often arranged so that fire came from a crowd of civilians, assuring that retaliation would result in civilian deaths. In at least two cases, they DID NOT retaliate, precisely because of this scenario.

You seem to assume the worst, every time. Why is that? And the negativity doesn't seem to confine itself to the Blackwater issue. Again, why? Do you actually believe the Iraqi government over men who have spent their entire adult lives as dedicated American patriots? If so, why is that?

Many here have challenged you to wait for the allegations to be PROVEN before damning Blackwater, but in reading the threads, I don't see any response from you on that point. Why? What is it in your makeup that requires you to judge first, and determine the facts later?
Posted by mcsegeek1 2007-10-10 15:07||   2007-10-10 15:07|| Front Page Top

#25 That last sentence speaks volumes. It indicates some solid professionalism and definite restraint in the use of force. Any lack thereof would have produced a slough of similar incidents a long time ago.



CONFESS! CONFESS!!!!!

(pokes with soft cushion)

CONFESS!!!!!

Hmm. He must be made of sterner stuff.

FETCH... THE COMFY CHAIR!
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-10-10 15:11||   2007-10-10 15:11|| Front Page Top

#26 attacks against them were often arranged so that fire came from a crowd of civilians, assuring that retaliation would result in civilian deaths

Got that, Mike? GOT IT? These are the sort of vile scumbags that we're fighting in Iraq and all over the Islamic world. Now why don't you give all of us a nice lecture on how to deal with terrorists who use human shields.

mcsegeek, thank you for weighing in. Your in-country experience trumps the media's usual ration of shit in spades.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-10-10 15:18||   2007-10-10 15:18|| Front Page Top

#27 I have a feeling as well that this is a power play as well. I'm seeing and attempt at a legal precident to kick out any private security firm which does not play ball with the government, sue them for lots of money, and perhaps try to get a war crime -or even terrorism- charge against individuals and companies accused of whatever crime. Also, suing the company as a tactic as well as intimidating the personel into double guessing using force. Targets of opportunity would open up due to less competent/unreliable security and-or troops being reassigned to guard duties instead hunting. I feel that if Blackwater just came out and kneejerked apologized, this would already have happened (and it sounds like some tried today) and many high level targets would have been hit within a couple of days as a way to momentum shift PR wise against the surge.

I have been following this thread the last couple of days and MS's thread seems to be what the message of the MSM overall story is - and is very similar in many accounts as what a friend of mine's take on the situation is; knowing only MSM and Daily Show info. I read Rantburg for the different and usually informed conversation. It has remained civil and well reasoned, but Mike lost me yesterday with the repeated calls to buy stock in a private company. Now, it feels like I'm overhearing a Denver Bronco's cheerleader talking about what the team should have done different against the Chargers. What the Iraqi government says indeed, didn't a MP get caught the other day? Heck, I don't take what my government says at face value. News made public - the best we have got comes off more like 'my sister's classmate's best friend said ...'
Posted by swksvolFF 2007-10-10 17:28||   2007-10-10 17:28|| Front Page Top

#28 how about the IRAQI gov paying every killed US soldier a 100 million. i hope blackwater tells them too fuck off
Posted by sinse 2007-10-10 18:10||   2007-10-10 18:10|| Front Page Top

#29 Amen to that sinse.
Posted by JohnQC 2007-10-10 18:40||   2007-10-10 18:40|| Front Page Top

#30  Must be something about the name Mike.

Woah, hoss! As a PROUD Mike, I take offense at that. There are good Mikes and bad Mikes. Lumpin' us all together gets my temper riled, and my trigger finger a'itchin. A 10-gauge, double-barreled goose-gun ain't somethin' to mess with...
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2007-10-10 22:55|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2007-10-10 22:55|| Front Page Top

#31 So OS, are you a good mike or a baaaad Mike? LOL I just could not resist.
Posted by 49 Pan 2007-10-10 23:27||   2007-10-10 23:27|| Front Page Top

#32 Too many beers at this TOC OP, hahaha
Posted by 49 Pan 2007-10-10 23:28||   2007-10-10 23:28|| Front Page Top

23:57 JosephMendiola
23:51 JosephMendiola
23:48 JosephMendiola
23:40 JosephMendiola
23:36 Zenster
23:34 JosephMendiola
23:32 Zenster
23:30 Mike
23:28 49 Pan
23:28 Zenster
23:28 3dc
23:27 49 Pan
23:23 JosephMendiola
23:23 3dc
23:21 DMFD
23:17 DMFD
23:17 Zenster
23:14 3dc
23:14 JosephMendiola
23:13 Old Patriot
23:11 JosephMendiola
23:06 JosephMendiola
22:55 Old Patriot
22:48 buy one war, get one free









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