Article

2015-10-21 Europe

After Netanyahu comments, Germany says responsibility for Holocaust is ours

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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-10-21 11:47|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ] Top

#1 Nope, not just you.

The world is bonkers and getting worse by the minute as the Obean contingent stays in or increases power.

Posted by AlanC 2015-10-21 12:59|| 2015-10-21 12:59|| Front Page Top

#2 Didn't Hitler believe that Jews were antithetical to the natural order of things long before he was in power and was visited by any Muslim elders? At what point did Hitler decide to try to kill them all? Before or after this visit?

Posted by gorb 2015-10-21 13:05|| 2015-10-21 13:05|| Front Page Top

#3 I read Mein Kampf in college -- part of my general studies requirement. Still remember a good chunk of it. Hitler blamed the Jews from early on though (in the book) he portrayed it as a struggle and a late blossoming. That was just rhetoric; he'd always blamed the Jews.

Daniel Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners makes clear that Hilter wasn't along in blaming the Jews.

Posted by Steve White 2015-10-21 13:08|| 2015-10-21 13:08|| Front Page Top

#4 According to the Washington Post, Netanyahu said (emphasis mine):

Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, ‘If you expel them, they'll all come here.’ ‘So what should I do with them?’ he asked. He said, ‘Burn them."

If that's all they're in hysterics about, it's true: Hitler's original plan at that time was to send Germany's Jews out into the world, stripped bare of their possessions, and by 1941 perhaps 75% of Germany's Jews had fled. This simultaneously enriched Germany, while in Hitler's view weakening the recipient nations as they struggled to overcome the problems caused by diluting their own Volk with Jewish Untermenschen. That Hitler turned out to be wrong about the weakening effect of admitting Jews only shows that he was no student of history.

However, and this is important, Hitler also planned for the eventual German conquest of the entire world, which meant that at some point the eradication of the remaining Jews would have to occur. And while Hitler would have preferred this to occur in a stepwise manner, he accepted the necessity of diverting manpower and material from the war effort in order to eradicate the Reich's Jews when the nations of the world closed their borders to further Jewish immigration, and there was therefore no other way to achieve the necessary state of Judenrein.

The Jewish Virtual Library has a gloss on the interactions between Hitler and Haj Amin al Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem and uncle/cousin of Yasser Arafat of unblessed memory (and therefore the direct ancestor of Fatah/the PLO/the Palestinian Authority, by convention accepted to speak on behalf of all Palestinians). Given that Bibi Netanyahu's father was an eminient historian, I am quite certain his understanding of events and personalities of particular interest to Israelis as a result is considerably deeper and more complex than both the currently frothing journalists/pundits and German government types, who like most Germans are likely deeply knowledgeable in areas that they've studied, and parochially ignorant -- without being aware of the possibility -- about so much else. The first, in my experience, is part of their charm and the reason for their successes, the second a normal human condition that is a matter of great frustration for those who've been subjected to ignorant pontification delivered with an air of deep thoughtfulness.

Posted by trailing wife 2015-10-21 14:57|| 2015-10-21 14:57|| Front Page Top

#5 It's not about knowledge TW. It's about Bibi spoiling the program of Merkel & Co to use guilt over Holocaust to make Germans admit millions and millions of Muslims.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-10-21 15:15|| 2015-10-21 15:15|| Front Page Top

#6 The decision to exterminate (and not just expel) the Jews probably dates back to July 1941 ("aspired final solution" in Goering's order to Heydrich), but was probably not finally approved by Hitler before December 1941 (US entry into war, which made it a World War plus Moscow defeat, which led Hitler to burning all bridges). The Wannsee Conference in Jan. 1942 then settled the organizational issues).

I don't think Hitler needed a "Muslim elder" to convince him of the "final solution". Muslim were simply useful idiots to him. It is unlikely that Hitler ever planned to expel the Jews to Palestine since Rommel was actually expected to take Egypt and the Middle East. A German victory at El Alamein would have made this a realistic project.

Posted by European Conservatives 2015-10-21 16:28|| 2015-10-21 16:28|| Front Page Top

#7 Note that the mufti visited Berlin in November 1941. At this time the preparations for the "final solution" were well underway. But at this time Hitler still wanted to keep the U.S. quiet, so his final push only came after Germany had declared war against the U.S.

The mufti is just a footnote in history.

Posted by European Conservatives 2015-10-21 17:24|| 2015-10-21 17:24|| Front Page Top

#8 Donald Trump Is Going To Crush Hilary Clinton, And He Should Emulate Netanyahu In Order To Win The Presidency

Posted by Blossom Unains5562 2015-10-21 19:48|| 2015-10-21 19:48|| Front Page Top

#9 Ten Things You Need to Know About the Mufti of Jerusalem

Posted by Blossom Unains5562 2015-10-21 19:50|| 2015-10-21 19:50|| Front Page Top

#10 A footnote in German history, yes, but central to Israeli-Arab history, European Conservatives. And your timeline does not contradict what Prime Minister Netanyahu is quoted as actually having said. So why is "the German government", whatever that means in this context (not to mention journalists and pundits the world over), reacting as if stung on the nose by a very large wasp at this matter of historical record?

Posted by trailing wife 2015-10-21 20:15|| 2015-10-21 20:15|| Front Page Top

#11 From Blossom Unnains5562's Mufti link:

10) Husseini remains a hero to Palestinians.

In a January 2013 ceremony, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas hailed Husseini as a martyr:

On the anniversary of the [Fatah] Launch, we renew the promise to our blessed Martyrs, that we will follow the path of the Martyr Brother Yasser Arafat and his comrades among the leaders of all the fighting forces, all the Martyrs. … Now let us recall the pioneers: The Grand Mufti of Palestine, Haj Muhammad Amin Al-Husseini.

Good find, dear Blossom Unains5562.

Posted by trailing wife 2015-10-21 20:25|| 2015-10-21 20:25|| Front Page Top

#12 Actually the reaction of a speaker of the Merkel government has been quite moderate. When asked about Netanyahu's remark he simply reiterated the fact that the responsibility for the Holocaust lay with the Germans and that this remark did not change anything about that historical fact.

The mufti certainly didn't "convince" Hitler to exterminate the Jews instead of deporting them. This is a historical distortion. (There is no doubt that the mufti was in favor of a holocaust.) In 1939 Hitler spoke at the Reichstag and warned of a Final Solution for the Jews, should they "plunge the world into a World War once again". In Mein Kampf Hitler even mentioned gas as one method to do it. There is no doubt in my mind that Hitler always wanted extermination, but before the U.S. joined the war he withheld execution of his plan.

Posted by European Conservatives 2015-10-21 20:39|| 2015-10-21 20:39|| Front Page Top

#13 The best book to read on this matter:

Halbmond und Hakenkreuz. Das "Dritte Reich", die Araber und Palästina

Mallmann, Klaus-Michael; Cüppers, Martin, Darmstadt 2006: Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft

The authors quote numerous German sources, including from the meeting between Hitler and the mufti, which make it clear that Hitler merely announced his plans for a final solution to the mufti. There definitely was no convincing. Extermination (in rather crude methods) was already under way in Poland by summer 1941.

There is no doubt that the mufti loved the idea.

Posted by European Conservatives 2015-10-21 20:54|| 2015-10-21 20:54|| Front Page Top

#14 It's late today but if you carry the topic on to the next day I will further elaborate

Posted by European Conservatives 2015-10-21 21:38|| 2015-10-21 21:38|| Front Page Top

#15 As per 31, the Bammer is a dedicated Anti-US US OWG Globalist raised or groomed to be such since Childhood by his Elders, etal. - HE'S MAKING THE WORLD BONKERS INTENTIONALLY.

JUST AS HE IS ALSO A SSSHHH ... CCCCCCCC
INTENTIONAL OR DELIBERATE "WEAK-N-INCOMPETENT" LEADER.

* FYI DEFENCE.PK/FORUMS > "TRUTH ABOUT 9-11 WOULD TAKE DOWN THE US AS A GLOBAL EMPIRE": AMERICAN SCHOLAR [Kevin Barrett].

And the U8 as OTHER THINGYS.

I can relate.

TRUTH BE TOLD, NOT JUST THE US.

PAY ANY PRICE TO MAKE SURE THAT SECRETS-N-SKELETONS, ETC. STAY HIDDEN OR BURIED.

* WORLD NEWS > [Stars-n-Stripes] WIDOUT LEADERSHIP, US STRENGTHS WITHER [while Weaknesses expound].

* NATIONAL INTEREST > AMERICA MUST PREPARE FOR "LIMITED WAR". MERE PRIMACY IS [presently] STILL ENOUGH FOR SECURITY, BUT WASHINGTON WILL NEED TO RE-LEARN THE ART OF FIGHTING UNDER RESTRAINT.

D *** NG IT, I'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE, BUT FROM WHERE? WHOM? OH yeah, now I remember, its Me as I've been saying or inferring this for many Years + Decades now.

"Weak/Declining" US versus Rising China + Rising Russia + Rising Iran, Other? OWG Co-Superpower Siblings.

PARITY WID THE SOON-TO-BE-EX-SOLE-SUPEPOWER-TO-ONE-OF-MANY-OWG-CO-SUPERPOWERS US, NOT INFERIORITY AGZ THE US.

* US-LED ANTI-US OWH-NWO + GLOBALISM = US IS THE TIP-OF-THE-SPEAR IN MAKING ITS ENEMIES, PROTAGONISTS, + WANNABES MILPOL OR GEOPOL STRONGER RELATIVE OR COMPARATIVE TO ITSELF.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG, besides the US-N-Only-The-US putting itself at dangerous existential risk from same???

versus

* LUCIANNE > [Heritage Foundation] THE CHALLENGE FOR NEXT US PRESIDENT: REVERSING THE DECLINE IN US POWER.

Yuuup - WHETHER GUAM'S CAMEL ROCK, ETAL. PACIFIC ISLANDS = USN PEARL HARBOR BB USS "OKLAHOMA"
SINKS AND "CAPSIZES" AS THE US [Self-]RETREATS/PULLS BACK ACROSS THE PACIFIC + WORLD DEPENDS ON IT.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2015-10-21 23:35|| 2015-10-21 23:35|| Front Page Top

23:58 JosephMendiola
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23:06 European Conservatives
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21:59 Barbara
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