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2003-04-13 Europe

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Posted by Bulldog 2003-04-13 08:50 am|| || Front Page|| [14 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Another lemming joins the rush to oblivion.

I really hope the UK goes for that free-trade deal some US senators are proposing (has it been passed as a law?). That would completely PO the axis of weasels. Of course, it's highly unlikely that Blair will go for it; "at the heart of Europe" is a phrase used often by him.

Posted by Tony 2003-04-13 10:04:04|| 2003-04-13 10:04:04|| Front Page Top

#2 Now that they want to play, they better get ready to PAY, and it's not all about money....

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-04-13 11:16:49|| 2003-04-13 11:16:49|| Front Page Top

#3 Exactly. First goes the sovereignty, then the EU 'constitution' comes along, and then goes the ability to leave the EU.

There's still time for the US to throw a spanner in the works, perhaps by extending free-trade to the coalition of the willing (or perhaps even NAFTA membership).

Posted by Tony 2003-04-13 15:13:37|| 2003-04-13 15:13:37|| Front Page Top

#4 Tony Blair is going to have to do some serious thinking and make a decision very soon. Either he wishes to act as the representative of a sovereign nation, or he wants to be a tiny cog in a Franco-German open sewer. We'll have to wait and see how things work out. Frankly, from what's coming to light in Iraq, I wouldn't be surprised if the United Nations imposed sanctions on the "EU" - especially since the EU has virtually torpedoed any possible UN leadership role in Iraq.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-04-13 16:17:03|| 2003-04-13 16:17:03|| Front Page Top

#5 Actually it's now that there exists no ability to leave the EU and it's *with* the constitution that such an ability is given to member countries.

See it as lemmings falling off a cliff, if you will. I'm sure you'd have said the same to Jefferson and Washington. A Union of states? Who ever heard of that! :-D

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-04-13 21:06:24|| 2003-04-13 21:06:24|| Front Page Top

#6 Bulldog, what kind of weird math are you doing? Or care to tell me how many % of the US population voted for Bush, please? According to your math of course.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-04-14 00:07:17|| 2003-04-14 00:07:17|| Front Page Top

#7 TGA - 83.8 % of a 45.6 % turnout = 38.2 % of the electorate actually turned out and voted "yes". The rest either voted "no" or didn't bother to vote at all. What did you make it? It's not exactly equivalent to voting in the US elections. The act of joining a body like the EU isn't comparable to changing presidents, is it?! I wonder, out of interest, just how few yes votes were theoretically required for membership to be authorised.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-04-14 03:45:31|| 2003-04-14 03:45:31|| Front Page Top

#8 OK, 2 million, it's in the article, but what percentage?

Posted by Bulldog 2003-04-14 03:54:12|| 2003-04-14 03:54:12|| Front Page Top

#9 Maybe they didn't turn out because a large majority in Hungary favors EU anyway and they'd thought they rather enjoy a warm spring day instead. When the outcome is clear fewer people bother to vote.
Doesn't answer my question though. Can you please do the same math with the U.S. president elections?
And don't tell me that voting for a president is irrelevant.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-04-14 14:24:28|| 2003-04-14 14:24:28|| Front Page Top

#10 Bulldog, for a referendum to be "conclusive" in Hungary, the same answer has to be given by atleast 50% of those who voted validly, and atleast 25% of all the electorate.

With a 38.2% this referendum is quite conclusive.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-04-14 16:00:40|| 2003-04-14 16:00:40|| Front Page Top

#11 It's in their constitution.

Paragraph (6) of Article 28/C of the Constitution:
"A national referendum shall be considered successful if more than half of the voting citizens casting valid votes, but at least more than one-quarter of all voting citizens, gave the same answer for the subject."

http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/hu00000_.html

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-04-14 18:45:50|| 2003-04-14 18:45:50|| Front Page Top

#12 I would vote "yes" indeed. But if the polls told me the day before that about 80 percent are going to vote "yes" anyway and it was a sunny day...
How high is the percentage of people who turned out to vote for US president? 40%? 50 % voted for Bush? So that makes 20% of Americans voting for Bush? That's the math I'm questioning. Only cast votes (hanging chads included or not) are counted. That's democracy.
Only in Iraq 100% vote.
And maybe the Hungarians saw a bit more in the EU than that "semi-democratic, largely unaccountable, inefficient, and frequently corrupt foreign administration" you name. I do too. And we are working on making the EU more democratic, accountable and less corrupt.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-04-14 19:01:32|| 2003-04-14 19:01:32|| Front Page Top

19:01 True German Ally
18:45 Aris Katsaris
16:00 Aris Katsaris
14:24 True German Ally
08:36 raptor
08:00 raptor
07:53 raptor
07:31 raptor
06:29 raptor
06:14 raptor
03:54 Bulldog
03:45 Bulldog
03:02 PD
02:34 PD
02:31 PD
02:01 Rex Mundi
01:38 Ed Becerra
00:26 Scott
00:07 True German Ally
23:29 Badger
23:21 penguin
23:12 Don
23:04 Brew
22:08 Steve W,