Article

2003-06-16 Middle East

UK, France at odds over banning Hamas political wing

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Posted by Frank G 2003-06-16 05:16 pm|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Did anybody expect anything else from the French?
Aris should give GFM Papandreou a pat on the back for doing what is right.
Aris I still can't figure out why you are so strongly in favor of alliing yourself with these terrorist loving asswipes?

Posted by raptor 6/16/2003 6:17:34 PM|| 6/16/2003 6:17:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 I can never figure out why the Greeks hate our guts and love the Muslims. After all, it was the Muslims who wiped out the Eastern Orthodox Church from North Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco), Mesopotamia (Iraq) and the Levant (Lebanon, Syria, etc) over a thousand years ago.

Posted by Zhang Fei 6/16/2003 7:23:42 PM|| 6/16/2003 7:23:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 raptor, I believe there was a time around 60s, 70s where France was a better ally to Israel than America was -- the Israelis were flying Mirage planes, and it was France IIRC that first provided Israel with the nuclear technology (or material, not sure which) it nowadays has.

*That* France wasn't any less *French* than the France you seem to despise now. The Union I desire is one that may last centuries - the temporary nowadays deeds of Chirac's government, right or wrong, are trivial compared to it.

After all, Greece has acted worse in the past, and I didn't want its breakup either. Why should I want the breakup of the Union just because of one member state's actions?

"Aris should give GFM Papandreou a pat on the back for doing what is right."

Even though he's a minister in a socialist party? :-D

Anyway, I voted for him, last parliamentary elections.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 6/16/2003 7:29:30 PM|| 6/16/2003 7:29:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 "Right now, no question about Hamas. In 20 years...???"
Let's answer that question after the 20 years. Right now they're blowing up bus loads of civilians.
"Arafat received the Nobel Prize for Peace"
They seemed to have jumped the gun on this one. Maybe the wording on the Nobel is "...in anticipation of peace..."

Posted by RW 6/16/2003 9:11:03 PM|| 6/16/2003 9:11:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 "unless Hamas backs the peace process and abandons suicide bombings"

Fair enough.

Now the Villepin version
"unless Hamas doesn't insist on driving the Jews back into the Mediterranean on Friday 32nd of February and promises not to bomb more than 200 people in a bus at once between midnight and 1 am"

Is that subtle enough?

Posted by True German Ally 6/16/2003 10:08:57 PM|| 6/16/2003 10:08:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 "Hamas remained a necessary player in the peace process."

Is there something in the water over there in Paris? Too much lead perhaps? Great, the USE lead by idiots like this. TGA, does this answer your question as to why the USA is weary about a U.S. of E.?

Posted by RW 2003-06-16 17:28:42|| 2003-06-16 17:28:42|| Front Page Top

#7 Proving once again, that there are no Jew-haters so vile that the French won't suck up to them.

Posted by Scooter McGruder 2003-06-16 17:58:19|| 2003-06-16 17:58:19|| Front Page Top

#8 Did anybody expect anything else from the French?
Aris should give GFM Papandreou a pat on the back for doing what is right.
Aris I still can't figure out why you are so strongly in favor of alliing yourself with these terrorist loving asswipes?

Posted by raptor 2003-06-16 18:17:34|| 2003-06-16 18:17:34|| Front Page Top

#9 I can never figure out why the Greeks hate our guts and love the Muslims. After all, it was the Muslims who wiped out the Eastern Orthodox Church from North Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco), Mesopotamia (Iraq) and the Levant (Lebanon, Syria, etc) over a thousand years ago.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-06-16 19:23:42|| 2003-06-16 19:23:42|| Front Page Top

#10 raptor, I believe there was a time around 60s, 70s where France was a better ally to Israel than America was -- the Israelis were flying Mirage planes, and it was France IIRC that first provided Israel with the nuclear technology (or material, not sure which) it nowadays has.

*That* France wasn't any less *French* than the France you seem to despise now. The Union I desire is one that may last centuries - the temporary nowadays deeds of Chirac's government, right or wrong, are trivial compared to it.

After all, Greece has acted worse in the past, and I didn't want its breakup either. Why should I want the breakup of the Union just because of one member state's actions?

"Aris should give GFM Papandreou a pat on the back for doing what is right."

Even though he's a minister in a socialist party? :-D

Anyway, I voted for him, last parliamentary elections.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-06-16 19:29:30|| 2003-06-16 19:29:30|| Front Page Top

#11 Since it's clear that France intends to support terorists, can we now place them on the 'evil' list? Maybe after some bombs level Paris they might change their ways! Muerte a Chriac! Muerte a Villepin! Muerte a Socialismo! De larga duraciÃ³n la RepÃºblica!

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC California Chapter) 2003-06-16 19:45:23|| 2003-06-16 19:45:23|| Front Page Top

#12 Zhang Fei> Beats me. But not all Muslims, we seem to only have a thing for Arabs and Kurds. Not Chechens, not Bosnians, not Albanians, and definitely not Turks...

The thing about Kurds is understandable by standard nationalistic logic - the Arab/Palestenian thing (though weaker) far less so.

I think some of it may lead back to Andreas Papandreou's the (now dead) former prime minister of Greece during the 80s, who IMAO had a horrid, horrid influence on Greek political life. "Thirdworldism" they called it. He did everything he could to antagonize the US, and be buddies with underdeveloped third-world Arab nations.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-06-16 20:09:30|| 2003-06-16 20:09:30|| Front Page Top

#13 RW, I can't see Hamas as a "necessary player in the peace process" either.

But what about Mazen? The mastermind of the Munich Olympics massacre, Mohammed Daoud Oudeh, says it was Mazen who provided the money for the attack. "Black September" probably never was anything but Arafat's Fatah. A few years ago Arafat received the Nobel Prize for Peace and was indeed seen as a "necessary player in the peace process". Now Abu Mazem is supposed to be.

In a historic perspective Villepin's remark isn't that idiotic as it seems. Right now, no question about Hamas. In 20 years...???

Whether we like it is another question. Whether Hamas survives that long probably not. Things have changed or haven't they?

Whatever, Villepin does speak for France, not for the EU. And whatever happens, the first EU foreign minister might not be Mr. Fischer. But he certainly won't be Dominique de Villepin.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-06-16 20:16:51|| 2003-06-16 20:16:51|| Front Page Top

#14 "Right now, no question about Hamas. In 20 years...???"
Let's answer that question after the 20 years. Right now they're blowing up bus loads of civilians.
"Arafat received the Nobel Prize for Peace"
They seemed to have jumped the gun on this one. Maybe the wording on the Nobel is "...in anticipation of peace..."

Posted by RW 2003-06-16 21:11:03|| 2003-06-16 21:11:03|| Front Page Top

#15 De Villepin also urged Hamas to make more efforts in ending terrorist acts from Palestinian militants. "We call on Hamas to demonstrate that they are against all terrorist activities," he said.

I'm sure Hamas' answer would go something like this:

"but... we're not. we are very much for our terrorist activities. and as soon as we are victorious over the zionists, we will be making a few phone calls to our jihadi buddies in your country. Like we always say, "first the star, then the cross..."

Can De Villepin really be so stupid as to publicly request this from an organization whose stated goal is to drive the Jews out of "Palestine", with the stated means of martyrs and bus bombs. Does anybody see some inkling of a subtle diplomatic strategy here at all? Please share it with me if you do.

Posted by Dripping Sarcasm 2003-06-16 21:41:40|| 2003-06-16 21:41:40|| Front Page Top

#16 "unless Hamas backs the peace process and abandons suicide bombings"

Fair enough.

Now the Villepin version
"unless Hamas doesn't insist on driving the Jews back into the Mediterranean on Friday 32nd of February and promises not to bomb more than 200 people in a bus at once between midnight and 1 am"

Is that subtle enough?

Posted by True German Ally 2003-06-16 22:08:57|| 2003-06-16 22:08:57|| Front Page Top

#17 Aris- "Frawnce" is ALWAYS the friend of anyone in the arms market - or is in a row with the US. When the US tries to pressure Israel into a more moderate stance, and (in the case of the timeframe you mentioned) uses weapons sales as the carrot, Frawnce jumps in to offer its wares. These seem to be the only actual identifiable "principles" in effect in Frawnce's global foreign policy. Simplisme, no? Regards the EU, of course, they have 4,000 flavors of tweaking the UK nose, luring Turkey into betraying their oldest allies, suckering Germany into backing them, attempting to sneak in amendments to the "EU Constitution", etc. - this is where they really shine. The most amazing thing, from my POV, is that the rest of the EU hasn't expelled them for the damage done / attempted.

Regards Hamas, nothing, NOTHING, that Frawnce does could surprise me. Dominique (whom they insist is a man) is merely the public hair-splitter and smoke-generator for Jacques (whom I insist is not)... the only clever thing about Frawnce's leader is how he has distracted his voters from the issue of prosecuting him. I wonder if the populace of Frawnce will, once he is out of office, turn on him. Probably.

Posted by PD 2003-06-16 22:40:31|| 2003-06-16 22:40:31|| Front Page Top

#18 Ok Aris,
I can accept that,however(correct me if I am wrong)I don't recall you critsizing French actions or policy.What are your thoughts on Depinheads meeting Arraft,and refusal to take action aginst Hamas?

Posted by raptor 2003-06-17 08:49:04|| 2003-06-17 08:49:04|| Front Page Top

09:47 Tresho
08:49 raptor
08:38 raptor
08:23 raptor
08:12 El Supremo
03:02 OldSpook
02:58 Vea Victis
02:56 OldSpook
02:54 OldSpook
02:01 Mike Kozlowski
23:24 Anonymous
23:13 PD
23:02 Old Patriot
22:40 PD
22:36 Old Patriot
22:20 Mike N.
22:19 Anonymous
22:08 True German Ally
21:41 Dripping Sarcasm
21:11 RW
20:57 Anonymous
20:54 RW
20:49 Matt
20:49 Mike