Article

2003-07-24 Iran

Iran accuses Canadian police of killing Iranian

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Posted by Steve 2003-07-24 9:50:19 AM|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Nice tat! Here, have a tit!"

Posted by Fred 2003-7-24 9:51:23 AM|| 2003-7-24 9:51:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 "He ran at me waving a machete, so I plugged him. What's the problem?"

None from me, buddy. None from me.

Posted by mojo 2003-7-24 10:17:12 AM|| 2003-7-24 10:17:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 This I'm afraid will be the end of this case as the Canadian Liberal government is totally clueless. I'm waiting for a letter of appology from Ottawa sent to Tehran. It's up to the media to decide how far to take this story by putting pressure on the gov't. After all, one of their own died. Let's see where this goes.

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-24 11:05:13 AM|| 2003-7-24 11:05:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Hey Canada, Iran is getting pissed. Better apologize or it could get ugly (nukes?). Don't forget your cultural sensitivity. Iran is a religious state that has the approval of God.

Posted by Lucky 2003-7-24 12:03:37 PM|| 2003-7-24 12:03:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 From the article:
Family members have apparently been told that the officer who shot Mr. Tabesh was off-duty; police have conceded that the man was not wearing his uniform and was not driving a marked police car.

From Steve:
So what?

So you're driving along, and up comes this guy next to you, honking and maybe motioning you to pull over. His car's not marked, and neither is he. You don't know who the hell he is.

So finally you drive down a road you think will lead to escape, but it's a dead end. So you get out of the car with the only weapon you have---your trusty machete. And the cop shoots you dead without ever identifying himself.

That's so what.

Look, maybe the kid was up to no good, maybe the cop did identify himself. But it wouldn't be the first time an off-duty (or undercover) cop got overzealous in the pursuance in his duties and forgot to identify himself.

If you have no sympathy for the kid, think of the cop. Many Rantburgers believe fervently in the right to keep and bear arms, and use them if threatened. If a plain-clothes cop in an unmarked car starts after you, and you don't know who he is or what he wants, you might decide to use your weapon to defend yourself. Then the cop is dead, and you're on the hook for it (assuming you too are not dead). Whereas if you'd known he was a cop from the start, you'd have just pulled over and accepted the damn ticket.

Iran, Shmiran---if the cop did not identify himself, he deserves to have his ass handed to him.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2003-7-24 12:48:03 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2003-7-24 12:48:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Angie--You make some valid points, but we don't know the full story.

You must have three factors in place to justify use of deadly force when faced by a threat:

Means -- Does the threat have a weapon or skill to inflict harm?

Intent -- Has the threat displayed willingness to harm?

Opportunity -- Does the threat have physical capability (proximity) to harm?

We don't know the full details, but unless the cop came running out of his car with a gun at the driver and didn't identify himself as a police officer, I can't see how the driver had justification to charge back with a machete.

If the driver came running out with a machete at the cop, whether or not he had identified himself, the cop arguably had all three requisites for justifying deadly force.

Posted by Dar 2003-7-24 2:03:12 PM|| 2003-7-24 2:03:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 God, I hate to pass up a chance to insult the Iranian gov't, but I think Angie has a very good point. I know if some un-uniformed guy in an un-marked car forced my car to stop, and if I even saw a HINT of a weapon...well, it might be very bad for his health.

Did the cop jump out of his car and show his weapon? Did he identify himself as a cop? (Even if he did, would YOU just take his word for it?)

Tooo many unanswered questions...

Posted by eric 2003-7-24 2:09:26 PM|| 2003-7-24 2:09:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Angie, here is the story on the shooting in question: PORT MOODY, B.C. -- Port Moody Police say they've confirmed that a man shot by one of their officers was running at the officer with a raised machete. Keyvan Tabesh, 18, of Burnaby was shot and killed during the confrontation early Monday morning. Police say the two occupants in a vehicle with Tabesh at the time support police findings that he ran at the officer. The incident started when two women complained to police that their car had been bumped from behind, and a man inside the vehicle smashed their back window with a machete. A plainclothes police officer in an unmarked car confronted a vehicle with the same description on a dead-end street. Police are still trying to determine if the officer identified himself, but Cst. Brian Soles says their training stipulates that's the first thing an officer must do. No decision has been made yet if the two men in the car with Tabesh will face charges.

So the officer in question was responding to a call of a man wielding a deadly weapon attacking two womem: "his car was followed into a dead end by a police officer responding to a radio call"
The story clearly stated it was a unmarked police car, not the officers civilian car.Unmarked means no external markings, they still have lights and radios. As soon as he responded to that call, he was on duty, as far as I'm concerned. That's why I said "So what?".

Posted by Steve 2003-7-24 2:16:34 PM|| 2003-7-24 2:16:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I've heard of criminals using cheap, easily available dashboard lights in their unmarked cars, and to 95% of the people, it looks like an unmarked police car with perhaps an undercover cop in it. Does any civilian know how to tell the difference between an unmarked cop car and a 'fake' unmarked police car, or just a regular car? Most people don't, including myself. If anything other than a "real" police car pulls me over, I'm immediately suspicious.

However, it appears that these people were up to no good, so I'm not going to cry about it. We don't know the whole story here, yet.

If the Iranian really did charge at the guy with the gun, maybe it was just Darwinism at work. :)

Posted by eric 2003-7-24 2:48:51 PM|| 2003-7-24 2:48:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Uh folks, this is Canada, where only the police and criminals have guns. Therefore this guy had to pick one of two: either there's a criminal following me, or it's the police. Did the policeman behave like a criminal? Was he hiding his face? Crouching? Stalking the guy? There's no excuse to run at anybody with a machete no matter how close he's tailgating you, or even if he flips you the bird as he passes you on the highway. This is Canada folks.

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-24 2:56:12 PM|| 2003-7-24 2:56:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Thanks, Steve, for a fuller version of the story. I didn't see that in your original link. That certainly does change the situation. I figured there was more to it, but I thought that your "So what?" was too cavalier without knowing more facts. I know it's the Iranian gov't and all, but still...

Rafael, even in Canada the bad guys do not necessarily signal they are bad guys by crouching, stalking, or twirling their mustaches while saying, "Muah ha ha!". I

Posted by Angie Schultz 2003-7-24 5:54:26 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2003-7-24 5:54:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Yes, but in Canada, if you pull out a machete on somebody and find yourself in court, you have better damn well prove that your life was in danger. And since people in Canada generally aren't allowed to have guns, it would be an uphill battle to do so, unless in fact your life was in danger (and you have witnesses).
In Canada, if you busted a cap in a burgler's ass while he was inside your house, even armed, you would still be busted for illegal gun possesion at the very least.

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-24 6:40:11 PM|| 2003-7-24 6:40:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "So you're driving along, and up comes this guy next to you, honking and maybe motioning you to pull over. His car's not marked, and neither is he. ... So you get out of the car with the only weapon you have---your trusty machete."

If you told this story in court, in Canada, you'd be the one busted. A little different Stateside I guess, where everyone and anyone is assumed to be packing heat. One of the reasons I prefer Canada despite the idiotic government and high taxes :)

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-24 6:50:38 PM|| 2003-7-24 6:50:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 As a Canadian, I am fully in support of putting a bullet through anyone running around waving machetes in public.

Unregistered machetes! There oughta be a law!

Posted by john 2003-7-24 9:55:35 PM|| 2003-7-24 9:55:35 PM|| Front Page Top

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