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2003-08-01 East Asia

China Slams Pentagon Report on Threat to Taiwan

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Posted by Frank G 2003-08-01 10:46:08 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I hope China isn't always going to be our enemy. It doesn't have to be. China for Chinese is fine by me. Chinese are civilised and not back stabing by nature. The commie-way won out there, so what! If Taiwan wants it's independace they will have to fight for it. Sounds like that day may be coming. It would really be a stunner if the commies started a war with Taiwan. It would be a very stupid thing to do. Very bloody by our current standards.

Posted by Lucky 2003-8-1 12:34:33 PM|| 2003-8-1 12:34:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 I hope China isn't always going to be our enemy. It doesn't have to be. China for Chinese is fine by me. Chinese are civilised and not back stabing by nature.

The Chinese empire has grown for 2000 years, with a 150-year hiatus, due to its relative weakness, starting in the 1800's. As soon as the Communists took power, China started attacking its neighbors one by one for its "lost territories". The biggest clashes occurred in the late 60's when the Soviets actually threatened nuclear war against China. The most recent clash was in the 90's, with attacks on Vietnamese territory. About a year or so ago, Chinese forces started building military structures on Filipino territory. China also claims the South China Sea as its lake.

Taiwan is just the tip of the iceberg. If you want to see the Chinese version of Leni Riefenstahl's (Hitler-era) Triumph of the Will, check out Zhang Yimou's Hero, which received a rapturous reception (breaking all box office records) in China. It's a paean to a tyrannical Chinese emperor's* ambition to "unite" (i.e. conquer) all under heaven (tian xia).

* Compared to him, Hitler was an rank amateur.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-8-1 12:58:03 PM|| 2003-8-1 12:58:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Ouch! Tian Xia sounds like Japans intention before WW2. My only point is that as a civilized people they are reasonable. But I don't know. Do Chinese people want world domintation?

Posted by Lucky 2003-8-1 1:37:23 PM|| 2003-8-1 1:37:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Ouch! Tian Xia sounds like Japans intention before WW2.

The Japanese were making up for lost time. China had been expanding for thousands of years. The Japanese were just getting started. Japanese atrocities are against foreign POW's and civilians are inexcusable*, but they figured it was finally their turn - the Chinese had monopolized that game for so long.

The relative lack of imperial expansion in Japanese history may be why Japan had such an easy time dropping its ambitions in the postwar era. The Chinese still have much of the imperial hauteur of their late 17th century forebears. They continue to have the Central Kingdom (zhongguo or China) vs vassal state (all else under heaven) mentality of antiquity.

Here's are some telling excerpts from a letter from the Chinese Emperor to King George in the late 18th century: "I have already taken note of your respectful spirit of submission" and "Tremblingly obey and show no negligence!" This was written right after China had conquered Tibet and East Turkistan, which together form 40% of China's existing territory (obviously this is disputed by the Tibetans and the Turkic tribes on these disputed lands). The recent economic expansion has gone to their heads - young Chinese are once again thinking of imperial glory in the fashion of prewar Japan and Germany.**

* Chinese atrocities against US POW's are unrivalled in US military history - a smaller percentage of US POW's survived Chinese captivity than in any of America's other wars. I think about half as many (in % terms) survived Chinese depradations against POW's during the Korean War as did POW's held by the Japanese during WWII.

** Once again, it's a load of crock that poverty leads to military expansion - when Japan and Germany embarked on their imperial wars in the 20th century, they were at the peak of their powers. It all comes down to ideology and national power. The Chinese don't need ideology, they have a history, of seeking "unification" with neighboring countries, that spans thousands of years.

They're able to spend $80B a year based on their present economic capacity. In 20 years, they will match what we're spending, given that they have 5 times our population. When that happens, we'll find out the true scale of their ambitions.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-8-1 3:31:26 PM|| 2003-8-1 3:31:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Zhang Fei: Regarding HERO, I hate saying this, but "Mussolini did get the trains to run on time". Not a defense of either, just that this was none other than Qin Shihuangdi - before becoming the tyrant we've all heard of in our textbooks, that is. Incidentally like Muhammed in having been a good guy before taking Medina and becoming a pedophile looter-tyrant, but ...

Let's just say that this right-wing conservative happened to like the movie, okay? (I found the positive qualities of "Qinwang" to be much more akin to Bush than to the PRC ...)

Lucky: Tianxia translates to tenka, but I'd say that amongst the young, I must disagree with Zhang Fei; I see a particular xenophobia amongst them more than "ambition" (usually meaning "world" domination in Chinese; in the ol' days, China was the world). In both China and Japan, it's been more about "lost glory" than ambition. Japan also spouted similar bullpoppery to Kangxi's statements under the Tokugawa shogunate (the most actively xenophobic period in Japan until pre-WW2) long after unification, without having seized territory from anyone. Neither could take their own delusions of grandeur being shattered by Western encroachment, and aspects of both (in China and Japan alike) still haven't forgiven the West. Like a crack whore beating someone who woke her out of her stupor which she wants back into ...

(The Yomiuri Giants' guy-in-charge actually taunted the Orix Blue Wave for Suzuki Ichiro's "sell out" to MLB, which he called the new "black ships" - only for Giants superstar Matsui Hideki to sign on as New York Yankee #55.)

P.S. For the "world domination ambition" irony, have you read RTK lately, Zhang Fei?

Posted by Lu Baihu 2003-8-1 3:58:37 PM|| 2003-8-1 3:58:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Taiwan will not be an easy nut to crack. The island has been preparing for invasion since 1949, and has expanded its capabilities enormously, both economically and militarily. They are also another nation that rumor indicates may have developed nuclear weapons.

The reunification rant has been used several times in the past to divert young Chinese males from their restlessness under the Chinese Communist party. This may be the case again. However, since the PRC has made numerous public statements about "reunification", it's going to be almost impossible for them to allow Taiwan to remain independent without losing losing enormous "face". Personally, I've marked Taiwan off my list of future vacation spots.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-8-1 6:33:37 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-8-1 6:33:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 However, since the PRC has made numerous public statements about "reunification", it's going to be almost impossible for them to allow Taiwan to remain independent without losing losing enormous "face".

This isn't an issue of face - it's an issue of megalomania and a yearning for past imperial glory. The bottom line is the same - the Chinese are going to come for what they think is theirs, and the Taiwanese would be well-advised to have Uncle Sam on their side when that day dawns.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-8-1 6:48:27 PM|| 2003-8-1 6:48:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 And in Sports, today, More Science High defeated Communist Martyrs High in last Friday night's big matchup to reach the semifinals.

Next on the schedule is Islamic Jihad High. Rumors abound that IJHS has been practicing secretly and has adopted a "trick play" approach since they lost the practice scrimmage and feel they can't match up with MSHS.

If MSHS can get past IJHS, it will meet Golden Dragon High in the finals.

Posted by PD - Prez for Life - Isles of Langerhans 2003-8-1 7:47:30 PM|| 2003-8-1 7:47:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Zhang Fei - I totally agree. I hope this president lays the groundwork to prevent a future Clinton (or other sloucher receiving donations from teh mainland..et tu Gore?) from letting them have it without a massive fight. We control the seas and air compared to PRC, but a massive missile bombardment would wreak havoc. It isn't a very large island. I'm not ready to write it off, and would prefer a partner like the Taiwanese than the geriatric corruption in Beijing. If the PRC goes for Taiwan it will be because they thought we were too weak, too unwilling, or bought off....can you say President Rodham?

Posted by Frank G 2003-8-1 7:50:29 PM|| 2003-8-1 7:50:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 It's a bit late, but the male problem in China's probably also responsible for China looking India's way. War is a dandy way to cut down on the number of surplus males, and if you happen to _win_, well, it hasn't been that long since taking the women of the defeated nation for your brides was standard operating proceedure.

Ed Becerra

Posted by Ed Becerra 2003-8-1 10:05:52 PM|| 2003-8-1 10:05:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 If MSHS can get past IJHS, it will meet Golden Dragon High in the finals.

I think we've already gotten past IJHS - we've defeated 2 Muslim armies in retaliation for 9/11. They're not capable of inflicting a military defeat on us. They recognize that another 9/11 would cause us to take even stronger measures. The true value of attacking Iraq is to put Muslim governments on notice that they don't have to be directly connected to a specific terror attack on Americans for them to become targets for American retaliation. The basic template is that if another attack occurs, the Muslim government most threatening to American national security at the time will be toppled. This keeps Muslim governments on their toes, and ensures that they will pay a little more attention to the activities of terror organizers on their soil.

The killing of Saddam's sons served another worthy purpose - it showed Muslim governments that we're not too squeamish to kill Muslim leaders after they are toppled from power. It'll take time, but the lesson is undoubtedly sinking in.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-8-1 10:55:41 PM|| 2003-8-1 10:55:41 PM|| Front Page Top

09:33 raptor
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