Article

2003-09-16 Britain

French block airlift of British troops to Basra

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve 2003-09-16 11:58:41 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Hey Tony, sure you still want to join the EU?

But of course. For Blair, it's EU Ã¼ber alles.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-9-16 12:25:31 PM|| 2003-9-16 12:25:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 I flew on Corsair once. The Brits are lucky they won't have to.

Posted by seafarious 2003-9-16 12:33:42 PM|| 2003-9-16 12:33:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 france pathetic1 they will never again have the former glory they had - now get over it. your just another small country - deal with it.
why roosevelt did not listen to churchill about france and the security council i will never understand.....

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-16 2:59:15 PM|| 2003-9-16 2:59:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 About "The Glory That Was France". Has anyoneone noted,of late that the "Glory" alluded to above was pretty much limited to the Napoleonic era?
Napoleone was an Italian.

Their "Glory" was not altogether French French

Posted by johnvgreco 2003-9-16 3:31:40 PM|| 2003-9-16 3:31:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Mr Johnvreco.

You slept during your Geography lessons. Napoleon was born on French soil (I am not sure about if Corsica was French when Napoleon was conceived, but this is not China). He learned his office in French schools (and he was defeated at Acre by a school comrade who had ranked higher) and was allowed to become General by the French system.

And for your info Corsicans fought to remain French during WWII.

While we are at it: your most illustrious astronaut: John Glenn is a Mexican. Your own logic at work.

Posted by JFM 2003-9-16 4:09:51 PM|| 2003-9-16 4:09:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Mr Vreco

I nearly forgot that guy who created the modern US Marine Corps: a such Lejeune.

Posted by JFM 2003-9-16 4:12:28 PM|| 2003-9-16 4:12:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Also you might have to note that the UK is part of the EU.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-16 4:14:18 PM|| 2003-9-16 4:14:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 What I really can't believe is that the Brits don't have a charter outfit that can handle this. Fly the Green Jackets in on Virgin. The Jihadists will be lining up to get on the flight out!

Posted by Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire 2003-9-16 4:28:50 PM|| 2003-9-16 4:28:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Juan Glenn is Mexican???

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-16 5:05:37 PM|| 2003-9-16 5:05:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 News to me Frank.

Posted by raptor 2003-9-16 5:16:49 PM|| 2003-9-16 5:16:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 The real question is whether John Glenn is an illegal mexican or not.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-9-16 5:27:48 PM|| 2003-9-16 5:27:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 SWDHVFWP: GET A NEW HANDLE.

Amazes me too. There's no excuse for it, and there'sno excuses for being surprised that Corsair pulled the flight after Straw's "neurosis" comments. Why the hell do 1400 BRitish troops rely on a foreign carrier?! As you point out, we've got airlines galore.

BTW, did I say get a new handle? SWDNVFWP is damned irritating to refer to. How about "Someone"?

Posted by Bulldog 2003-9-16 7:01:09 PM|| 2003-9-16 7:01:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Been thinking about it, but I haven't come up with anything yet......wiat I've got it, now I got to see if the sight will let me do it

Posted by Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire 2003-9-16 7:56:22 PM|| 2003-9-16 7:56:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Let's see if that worked

Posted by Cheddarhead 2003-9-16 7:59:26 PM|| 2003-9-16 7:59:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Why the .... are we relying on a French! firm to shift our boys around for?

Why the hell we put up with this kind of crap I don't know.

TGA, from your comments previously I know you speak with a straight tongue, so I know you won't get antsy, but I have to say that I for one am sick and tired of having my country lumped in with the EU and all its works, cue Aris...

Posted by Tony (UK) 2003-9-16 8:00:44 PM|| 2003-9-16 8:00:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Tony, don't forget one thing: The UK will always be able to leave the EU, not Germany. The EU is our golden cage we will never be able to leave even if we wanted to. Do you remember Maggie Thatcher meeting Mitterand after the wall came down? Yes, after 44 years the old fear was back. The French came up with the Euro to bind the German economic power, and we had to accept. Because Europe will never tolerate us roaming free. Imagine 1989 without the EU: Germany would have been the new pole for the Eastern European countries. Germany has been willing to forego much of its sovereignty in order to get its place in the center of Europe, a peaceful nation that doesn't inspire fear anymore. We preferred that option to aspiring a renewed bigger role in history.
I do believe that the UK is part of Europe. If you want to run unelected bureaucrats out of Brussels and replace them with democratically elected representatives of the European peoples, I'm all for it!
But if the people(s) elect their government in Brussels and a Parliament in Strasbourg, it needs to give them power. Power that will and must be taken from national power structures. Germany is ready for that, the UK (I think) is not.
And that's why I think London secretly is quite happy with the way the EU works: The longer Brussels continues to operate with bureaucrats of doubtful democratic legitimacy, London does not need to worry to give up much.
You can't have the cake and eat it.
We could have taken up George Bush Sr generous offer and become "partner in leadership" with the United States. The EU would just have faded nicely into an economic association of independent states and Germany might have emerged.. well not as a superpower but as a country that would have more to say than it has now. We didn't go that way (maybe Bush overestimated our economic power as well). We'll find out in time whether we missed a big oppportunity or not.

But Tony, if a majority of the British is sick and tired of the EU, then you should be honest enough and leave. Because Aris is right with one thing: Europe is going ahead. And as the saying goes: lead, follow or get out of the way. Obstruction is not an option.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-16 9:19:29 PM|| 2003-9-16 9:19:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Obstruction is always a option, it's just a matter of how well you obstruct. I thought the EU's opposition to the war in Iraq would have demonstrated that clearly.

Posted by Charles 2003-9-16 9:24:42 PM|| 2003-9-16 9:24:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 TGA

Gernmany may be integral to the EU, but I doubt that the EU will end up being your cage. Like any other body politic, theEU will transform itslef into something that nobody anticipates (I don't mean that negatively.) I doubt that the economically suicidal portions of the EU will hold for long. France has shot holes in some of the monetary provisions already.

My belief is that the EU will become a close-knit group of states with that acts cohesively in some respects and in other respects acts more parlimentary.

I see Germany as a natural hub of the countries that it has tradtionally aligned itself with. Beyond that, the welding together of East and West Germany makes the united Germany the only significant power to have experienced both sides of the iron curtain simultaneously.

Neither France nor any other power should be able to cage a country after the populous has been through that typoe of crucible. Germany is limited only by Germans.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-16 9:48:29 PM|| 2003-9-16 9:48:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 LOL Super Hose, that might be the other problem we have, at least for the moment.
There is some serious asskicking to do here.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-16 10:10:04 PM|| 2003-9-16 10:10:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Yes but---no offense to TGA--many Germans are obsessed w/trying to be the nice guys of the EU. Remember the protests against the Neutron bomb in Germany? A weapon specifically designed to save their ass! They've tied their wagon to the jackass that is France--let them pay for their disloyalty by losing EVERY American base in their country--Hungary is looking better & better! Even as a diehard LIBERAL, I resent the free ride the Germans have been given by the US

Posted by Not Mike Moore 2003-9-16 10:11:33 PM|| 2003-9-16 10:11:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 NMM, the neutron bomb issue was about the dumbest thing the "peace movement" came up with!

As for the free ride, no I don't think we had one. I don't know how an armed conflict would have looked like but I doubt there would have been Germans left to tell. Germany may not have been great with troops (and that was always a 4-power-obstacle then, too) but the cheque book was always there.
I have commented on the U.S. bases before: They will be there as long as YOU need them, not as long as WE do. The economic impact would be felt locally (and hitting the most U.S. friendly Germans you can find), but the impact on the national GDP would be minimal. France costs us 100 times more.
There is no such thing as a free ride NMM. Especially not with the U.S. But i don't think we were asking for one. For us, a "contained" WWIII would not have existed.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-16 10:25:56 PM|| 2003-9-16 10:25:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Not Mike Moore

I don't think American interest matters much to Germans in the end. Their trade partners surround them. Some are tied to Germany through language oterhs are tied to them through the shared Soviet nightmare.

France can depnd on Belgium and Luxembourg.

Some countries like Poland might harbor resentment against Germany, but Poland certainly resents its other neighbor Russia with quite a bit more recency.

I see an interesting crossroads. Can Germany reach out to others and build a constituancy? or engage in navel-gazing? I don't know but it will be exciting to watch.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-16 10:26:30 PM|| 2003-9-16 10:26:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Super Hose, the problem is that most Germans thought that any threat had ended in 1989. And they are not (yet) willing to see new threats.
Frankly, I think we should have kicked the hell out of the Arabs in 1973, when their oil embargo started damaging our economies (and what is often overlooked, hurt the economies in Third World countries so much more).

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-16 10:47:32 PM|| 2003-9-16 10:47:32 PM|| Front Page Top

13:21 Anonymous4719
04:02 Anonymous4703
05:55 Bulldog
03:27 Aris Katsaris
00:54 Mike Kozlowski
00:16 Polonius
23:36 tu3031
23:33 Fred
23:23 tu3031
23:16 tu3031
23:13 Alaska Paul
22:56 Bomb-a-rama
22:54 Becky
22:53 True German Ally
22:52 Alaska Paul
22:51 Bomb-a-rama
22:49 Scooter McGruder
22:48 Bomb-a-rama
22:47 True German Ally
22:45 Bomb-a-rama
22:37 Super Hose
22:33 Super Hose
22:26 tu3031
22:26 Super Hose