Article

2003-11-11 Europe

Steyn: Pacifist Europeans have short memories

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Posted by Frank G 2003-11-11 10:59:04 AM|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Living in Europe, I've come to appreciate the European viewpoint on this. You can't go but a few miles in any direction without a battleground, or a last stand, or a gravesight to the honored dead. It's like Virginia on 'roids.
A few hours away, there's a site where fragments of bones from dead Red Army soldiers pop up every spring. 9/11 was a good day in comparison for some of these countries.
What is amazing, though, and what Steyn has touched on in his piece, is that the Europeans have learned the wrong lesson. Now, no use of force is justifiable in any circumstance.
Top that off with the EU, the citadel of "no certain beliefs," well, I'm glad to have an American passport.

Posted by Baltic Blog 2003-11-11 11:59:17 AM|| [http://balticblog.blogspot.com] 2003-11-11 11:59:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 First off, as a dedicated civilian my thanks to all of you who have served (or are serving) so that my family and I can sleep in peace. That is a debt I can never repay.

As to this post, I think Max Hastings is a pretty good military historian but he's not known for accentuating the positive. His book on the Normandy campaign, Overlord, basically concludes that the Allies (British and American) sort of lucked out and that the Germans coulda shoulda woulda won. If you compare Overlord to D-Day by Stephen Ambrose you would think they were writing about two entirely different battles.

Posted by Matt 2003-11-11 12:05:44 PM|| 2003-11-11 12:05:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Living in Europe I have come to NOT appreciate the European viewpoint on this. I just have to think in Auschwitz or Treblinka and tell myself "This wouldn't have happenned if the French of the thirties had remembered that freedom is maintained when you are ready to die for it, that sometimes peace is better kept by firmness than by throwing the Czech sacrificial lamb to the wolves and that sometimes avoiding a small war now (eg expelling Germans from Rhenania in 1936) than a big one later. And that if you instead of crushing the monster when it is weak, you let it grow until you can no longer contain it then you are responsible for its crimes.

Posted by JFM 2003-11-11 1:18:02 PM|| 2003-11-11 1:18:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Baltic, if you think about it, most of America is also a graveyard. Revolutionary, Civil, Spanish, Mexican, Indian wars.

We're a 3000-mile wide graveyard.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-11-11 1:25:38 PM|| 2003-11-11 1:25:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 I blogged three other November 11's. This one stands out as apropos:

November 11, 1944: the flooded Moselle, France

On the 31st of October the Group moved to an assembly area at Pierrepont in preparation for the crossing of the Moselle at Thionville by the 90th and the flanking of Metz by the 10th Armored. From the 8th to the l5th of November, the Group supported the 90th in establishing a bridgehead across the flooded Moselle and on the 15th crossed the Thionville bridge with Task Force CHAMBERLAIN of the 10th Armored. The Group supported the 10th, slashing through fanatical resistance until the last escape route out of the fortress city had been cut and the Division was relieved by the 90th lnfantry Division.

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2003-11-11 1:29:30 PM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2003-11-11 1:29:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Shoot, you left out the GOOD part

The UK is one of the few credible military powers left in the developed world, yet it can't sustain a proportionate share of the burden of even a small war. And, in all his indestructible condescension, it never occurs to Sir Max to wonder how it must sound to American ears to be told you're doing it all wrong by folks who can barely do it at all.

Priceless!

Posted by Ptah 2003-11-11 3:02:13 PM|| [HTTP://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-11-11 3:02:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 He write good stories but jebus... few credible military powers left in the developed world, gotta watch out for Nigerian Mechanzied Corps.

Posted by Shipman 2003-11-11 3:44:52 PM|| 2003-11-11 3:44:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Shipman -- both China and North Korea are credible (if local) military powers, and are not part of the developed world.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-11-11 4:25:10 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-11-11 4:25:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 RC
Give ya points for the Norks...

But China? I thought they were a member of the gang of 8?

Posted by Shipman 2003-11-11 6:50:40 PM|| 2003-11-11 6:50:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 "to secure peace is to prepare for war" - George Washington

Let's see, nothing worth fighting for huh? If that's indeed the sentiment of most of the Europeans - God help them. Maybe they've become so enamored w/quasi-socialism it doesn't matter who calls the shots as long as they can eek out an existence. Plug into the collective I guess. War is not the most pathetic of things, a man who has nothing in which he would fight for is.

OTOH - I smell at least five new states to be added to our union across the pond ;) (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-11 9:14:08 PM|| 2003-11-11 9:14:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 OTOH - I smell at least five new states to be added to our union across the pond ;) (tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Better be your own &^&(%$@# cheek! 8^). Seriously, there's the possibility of half of Scandinavia, the Baltic Republics, and much of Eastern Europe that by now would welcome any halfway decent alternative to the European Union. You might be able to add Spain, Portugal, and Italy to that list, as well. The Swiss have the option of telling the whole world to bugger off, if they choose, and have the manpower and equipment to get away with it.

No matter how the lefties try to wiggle out of it, there are always consequences to behavior. The consequences for their current idiotic behavior could well be their demise.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-11-11 10:09:35 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-11-11 10:09:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 OP - Spain, Portugal, & Scandinavia - the 51st through 55th new states? Fine by me. Hot women, wide array of scenery/climates, decent chow, and some good booze. LOL.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-11 11:33:47 PM|| 2003-11-11 11:33:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "A dignified and somber Veteransâ Day to all!"

It Is The Soldier
by author uncertain

It Is The Soldier not the reporter,
who has given US Freedom of the press

It Is The Soldier not the poet,
who has given US Freedom of speech

It Is The Soldier not the campus organizer,
who has given US the Freedom to demonstrate

It Is The Soldier not the lawyer,
who has given US the right to a fair trial

It is the soldier, who saluted the Flag,
who serves beneath the Flag
and whose coffin is draped by the Flag,
who allows the protester to burn the Flag

http://www.sid-ss.net/write/soldier.htm

Posted by tipper. 2003-11-11 11:49:29 PM|| 2003-11-11 11:49:29 PM|| Front Page Top

23:49 tipper.
23:33 Jarhead
23:32 mojo
23:30 Jarhead
23:23 Jarhead
23:19 Jarhead
23:05 Jarhead
23:05 Lone Ranger
23:03 Val
22:56 Jabba the Nutt
22:45 Lone Ranger
22:44 eLarson
22:37 Old Patriot
22:25 CrazyFool
22:25 Old Patriot
22:23 CrazyFool
22:18 Jabba the Nutt
22:15 Old Patriot
22:09 Old Patriot
22:07 The Commissar
22:06 Jarhead
22:02 snellenr
21:58 snellenr
21:46 Jarhead