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2003-11-20 Europe

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-11-20 23:07|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 So not only did the double cross by Turkey on the 4ID not get them expedited review into the European Union, not only did it not get them financial aid from the French, not only did it not get them favorable terms on Cyprus --

-- it also didn't get them a free pass from al Qaeda.

Yep, them Turk politicans are shrewd.

Posted by Steve White 2003-11-20 12:11:42 AM|| 2003-11-20 12:11:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Are the Turkish people getting the message that Al-Queda hates them and their way of life too, yet?

Despite our differences in the last year, including here with Murat, I have continued to believe that the Turks are our friends and that we have mutual interests in stopping these jerks.

But it is interesting what one terrible attack can do to change a nation's attitude.

Pearl Harbor turned us from a nation opposed to war into the world's greatest military power.

9/11 awakened us from our sleep (most of us anyway) and showed us what today's enemy really is. Bali did it for Australia. Casablanca did it for Morocco. The same thing will happen in France or Germany when the attacks come there...as they surely will.

Posted by RMcLeod 2003-11-20 2:29:30 AM|| 2003-11-20 2:29:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I hope this is publicized in some way in Turkey.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-11-20 3:18:51 AM|| 2003-11-20 3:18:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Strange thing is..the day before the bombings I asked Murat what he thought on how Turkey would react if Al Quaeda had hit them? Weird on the foreseeing part eh?

Posted by Val 2003-11-20 3:36:17 AM|| 2003-11-20 3:36:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 But it is interesting what one terrible attack can do to change a nation's attitude.

It is, isnât it thinking about that the Taliban was created by a joint funding of the US and Saudia Arabia to fight the Russian occupation, that later somehow backfired, see it like playing with firework and injuring oneself. And the Hamas that was created to cripple the PLO, fighting fire with fire that in the end also wend astray.

The Turkish people have never regarded the Al queada else than evil, however one should look beyond the tip of his nose, most of those âIslamicâ terror groups have been created and funded by Western powers in times when it suited them, although having a leading role Iran and Syria are not the only guilty ones.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-20 6:10:35 AM|| 2003-11-20 6:10:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Murat, you miss the point. RMcLeod was saying how an attack on a country can often galvanize them to actions and future consequences not seen before. I.E. - his Pear Harbor & 9/11 analogies.
Maybe these attacks will galvanize the Turks against the Muslim extremists in a never seen before fashion. I forsee the next year being a pivotal one for the Turkish people. BTW - my condolences to your people.

As for your other argument - We did support the mujahadeen against the Soviet's in the 80s. What's your point? That we should have known 25 years later they would twist into the Taleban and support Al Queda? Give me a break. I guess we should've supported the Soviets then in your view? Yeah, that would have been a lot better. Don't make me laugh. It was at the height of the cold war, what the hell did you think we were going to do?! We also supported Iraq against Iran. I guess we should've supported the Islam-o-nut Ayatollah instead. Whatever.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-20 7:49:37 AM|| 2003-11-20 7:49:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Actually, the Taliban only popped up after the Soviets (and the US support) were gone, so Murat's point is, well, pointless. Some of the US-supported mujihadeen may have gone over to support them, but Afghanistan's like that.

Honestly, Murat, cash flowing from Muslim "charities" has much more to do with funding terrorism than any US government cash. But recognizing that would involve seeing the beam in your own eye, wouldn't it?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-11-20 8:33:26 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-11-20 8:33:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Here you go, Murat, this article was written for you. It's right here in black and white, the idiots guide to understanding AQ. It's pretty simple, and this article makes it clear enough for even YOU to understand.

They have drawn the line in the sand. You are either for secular democracy or you are for life under the mullahs and Sharia. If you choose the former, you are a legitimate target no matter how much you hate Americans and Jews.

Posted by B 2003-11-20 10:17:29 AM|| 2003-11-20 10:17:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Murat: It is, isnât it thinking about that the Taliban was created by a joint funding of the US and Saudia Arabia to fight the Russian occupation, that later somehow backfired, see it like playing with firework and injuring oneself.

The Taliban sprang up with Saudi, Pakistani and worldwide Muslim funding to overthrow the warring mujahideen who had convinced the Soviets that the cost of staying in Afghanistan was too high. The Taliban won because they were better-funded with Saudi and Muslim charitable funds than the other Afghan factions. The idea that we supported the Taliban is just another one of the anti-American myths that the left keeps on cranking out.

Even if we assume the truth of these baseless lies (namely that the Taliban did the bulk of the fighting against the Soviets, and we supported the Taliban against the Soviets), the truth is that alliances do change over time. We were aligned against Turkey during WWI and WWII, and with it after WWII, because of Turkey's cooperative attitude in the postwar era - despite its being a quasi-Axis country during WWII. We were aligned with Stalin during WWII and against him after WWII, because of Soviet imperial expansion. Japan, Italy and Germany were pre-war enemies and post-war allies, because all of these countries moved towards democracy and a non-belligerent attitude towards the US. The truth is that the US welcomes everyone's friendship - bin Laden had to attack the US to make al Qaeda America's enemy, and the Taliban had to shelter bin Laden to put themselves in our cross-hairs.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-11-20 10:36:22 AM|| 2003-11-20 10:36:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#10

It should be noted that the mujahideen officially split with the West durring the Balkans War.

If you remember they showed up there in large numbers to fight for there Muslim brothers but there contempt for the West was easy to see. They judged us durring that war as thier true enemy after communism had truly died. It was also the last time they fought allied with the West agianst a communist state.

Posted by ZoGg 2003-11-20 11:49:56 AM|| [http://www.americanintelligence.us/] 2003-11-20 11:49:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#11

It should be noted that the mujahideen officially split with the West durring the Balkans War.

Posted by ZoGg 2003-11-20 12:11:23 PM|| [http://www.americanintelligence.us/] 2003-11-20 12:11:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm still waiting for Al Queda to try to get the Muslims in Europe to move to Spain and shift the demographic balance there, reversing the Andalusian tragedy and returning Spain to the Dar al-Islam.

Posted by ruprecht 2003-11-20 1:40:01 PM|| 2003-11-20 1:40:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Jarhead

Murat is distorting the facts or has been brainwashed. The Taliban didn't exist at the time of the Russian occupation. There was an ultra-Islamist party under the orders of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and this spent more time fighting more moderate resistance movements than fighting the Soviets. The US had delegated to the Pakistanese the task of distributing the aid and these sent most of it to Hekmatyar despite being the less effective of the resistance leaders. But the long-term goal of Pakistan is gain strategic depth against India by provoking the implosion of Afghanistan, that is why she fights those who have developped an Afghan patriotism and funds those who will increase religious (Hekmatyar and the Taliban both tried to force conversion of the Shia) and ethnic rivalries (both Hekamatyar and the Taliban were Pashtun supremacists)

Posted by JFM 2003-11-20 3:58:48 PM|| 2003-11-20 3:58:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 (both Hekamatyar and the Taliban were Pashtun supremacists)
So much for the incompatibility of Islamism & nationalism :-)
Mind you Hek is primarily a Hekmatyarist, nothing else. He was allegedly a loyal PDPA cadre when he was at Kabul's military academy, & despite his supposed antipathy to Commies he managed to patch up an alliance with Dostum pretty quickly after the fall of the Najibullah govt (that was after he'd condemed the new Mujahideen administration as 'unislamic' cos it included Tank Boy - oops!) I hope his Sunni Islamist credentials have been irreversably tarnished by his having to beg Khamene'i & Co for asylum after the Talibs chased him out of Afghanistan - I won't hold my breath though.

Posted by Dave 2003-11-20 5:02:09 PM|| 2003-11-20 5:02:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Odd...when I google the phrase "dar al-islam" the only hits I get come back to "septic tank". Dar al-Islam igual cisterno septico en Espana. What's up with that, ruprecht?

Posted by Mark 2003-11-20 7:11:16 PM|| 2003-11-20 7:11:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 re: SEPTIC TANK

according to Instapundit...isn't today national toilet day?

Posted by B 2003-11-20 9:12:56 PM|| 2003-11-20 9:12:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 JFM - Thanx for the clarification. I wasn't aware of how far those complexties ran. I'm surprised Murat doesn't either as he lives in the region.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-20 10:14:59 PM|| 2003-11-20 10:14:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Heh. Is Murat wrong about everything? I see he's also blaming the Turkish bombings on Bush or some British conspiracy in another Rantburg posting.

Posted by LeftEnd 2003-11-21 12:09:18 AM|| 2003-11-21 12:09:18 AM|| Front Page Top

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