Article

2004-01-20 Europe

Trans-Atlantic quarrel: An indifferent Washington shrugs

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by rkb 2004-01-20 9:20:01 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I used to worry about our troops defending them while they sit in their cafes sipping coffee. Now they are as likely to be taken over from within by Islamists as they were to be rolled over by the Soviet Union, with or without our troops there.

Any "neoconservatives" in Europe planning ahead for a 21st Century reconquista?

Posted by eLarson 2004-1-20 11:50:56 AM|| 2004-1-20 11:50:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Anybody have a clue what France wants? Germany? Besides a long vacation.

Posted by Lucky 2004-1-20 11:54:16 AM|| 2004-1-20 11:54:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Thanks rkb, that was a good read.

Posted by Parabellum 2004-1-20 11:57:42 AM|| 2004-1-20 11:57:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 "Old Europe" is trying to do the impossible - freeze time. They don't want anything to change, since change requires action to deal with it. Most Europeans are comfortable, and want to continue their "comfort", even though the social, economic, and political system that creates that comfort is totally unsustainable. They have their collective heads in the sand (or somewhere else where reality is blotted out), and don't want to face reality. It will take another major bloodbath - something even more horrendous than 9/11 - to get them stirred up enough to pull out of their self-induced snooze. For those Europeans who actually want to move forward, it's like running through neck-deep molasses, and they get tired. Those that can emigrate, the others just give up. In many ways, modern Europe has the same problems that Latin America has - a large, irrelevant population, a small ruling class, and little incentive to change. Those caught between the other two masses are ignored, or treated with contempt as "being too American", or "out of step with European reality". Maybe someday it will change, but I doubt anything will happen without a major catastrophe overtaking Europe. I also see the potential for such a catastrophe just around the corner, triggered by unrealistic immigration policies, dependency, and neglect. The collapse of "Old Europe", when it comes, will be horrendous, and self-inflicted.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-1-20 12:09:02 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-1-20 12:09:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 -- and of the rise of a "nastier, contemptuous attitude" toward Europe on the part of key executives of American corporations with whom he had spoken. Europe, they told him, was "hopeless on entrepreneurship and innovation."--

Hmmm, kind of makes me wish to be a fly on the wall. Must have been some interesting conversations.

I still think we make a mistake not imposing some of our ideals and practices on other countries, and made a BIG mistake not doing same in Europe. They're mired in 1000 years of stasism(?) or mutated monarchy, if you prefer. If we're going to be called "imperialistic" let's earn it. If we have to go back, this time give them at least the Bill of Rights.

Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-1-20 12:38:22 PM|| 2004-1-20 12:38:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I wrote it before, but Eu 's problem, and that's even more true in case of France, is that the ruling class, wether high-ranking civil servants, professionnal politicians, chattering class,... is cut off from the populace, self-reproducting, and has become basically a camarilla.
That's why, if you count abstentionnists and such, the majority of french voters go for the anti-establishment parties (far-right, non-communist far-left, hunters,...).
Again, a complete, if very didactical, approach to theses problems can be found at :
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/france.htm ("where France is going")
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/hurri.htm ("Europe at war")
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/agendacont.htm ("Future of EU")
Excuse the basic-english, it was written by a french guy, which come from the under 5% of liberals (not Us meaning, more like reaganites & tatcherians), who are usually pro-Israel and pro-Us, quite an oddity in french political landscape.

Posted by Anonymickeymouse 2004-1-20 12:42:47 PM|| 2004-1-20 12:42:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 camarilla
?
I google and get MUDD sites...

Posted by Shipman 2004-1-20 2:55:57 PM|| 2004-1-20 2:55:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Anonymickeymouse--Votre anglais est meilleur que mon francais. ;)
Welcome to Rantburg!

Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-1-20 3:18:45 PM|| 2004-1-20 3:18:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 What less interested than indifferent?
Never mind, let's get on to the important story of Shipman and the oil change.

Posted by Shipman 2004-1-20 6:23:52 PM|| 2004-1-20 6:23:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 zzzz...What, what. Sorry. Oh, the French are mad. Oh, I guess that's allright. The Poles are still OK, right? That should work. (picks up remote, changes to home shopping network, eyesdroop....) ZZ..ZZ..zzzz....

Posted by Super Hose 2004-1-20 8:41:50 PM|| 2004-1-20 8:41:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Shipman=Peter Pan. And thats a good thing!

Posted by Lucky 2004-1-21 12:54:03 AM|| 2004-1-21 12:54:03 AM|| Front Page Top

18:09 Shutch Hupains1662
01:01 Lucky
00:54 Lucky
00:39 Lucky
00:17 Lucky
00:12 Desert Blondie
00:11 Frank G
00:07 Lucky
00:04 Phil Fraering
23:47 Lucky
23:36 CrazyFool
23:35 badanov
23:11 Angie Schultz
23:01 Chuck
22:59 SLO Jim
22:56 Chuck
22:55 Aris Katsaris
22:53 4thInfVet
22:52 CrazyFool
22:51 Chuck
22:49 Robert Crawford
22:46 Mr. Davis
22:45 CrazyFool
22:44 Patrick Phillips