Article

2004-05-18 Iraq-Jordan

Guts

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Posted by Mercutio 2004-05-18 13:35|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Haag and 13 other members of his platoon was roughly 100 yards past a mosque flying the fedayeen flag."

rules of war - knock it down - they appreciate nothing less

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-18 9:23:14 PM|| 2004-05-18 9:23:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Wow.

Mechanick is now back home, trying to adjust to a country that imagines itself not at war

Thanks to the leftist "mainstream" media and the Democrats, none of whom are worthy of licking these men's boots.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-05-18 9:30:11 PM|| 2004-05-18 9:30:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Well said, Barbara! (In my daughter's high school US history class, the teacher is daily comparing the WOT to Vietnam "thanks to the leftist "mainstream" media and the Democrats." )

Many honors to our True American Heroes. We love you Timothy Haag.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-05-18 9:57:25 PM|| 2004-05-18 9:57:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Haag had best receive a Silver Star for valor in combat. In an age that adulates overpaid and undereducated sports stars he is a genuine hero.

Would that those who held the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were such professionals.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-18 10:05:37 PM|| 2004-05-18 10:05:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 ex-lib, I'd suggest your daughter ask her prof some pointed questions on whether he/she knows the difference between a triple canopy jungle and a desert - because they have about as much in common as 'Nam and the WOT.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-05-18 10:06:03 PM|| 2004-05-18 10:06:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Jarhead: Yeah . . . but she'd get slaughtered. This teacher has everyone in the class believing the LLL lies. But, if you can give me 5 or 6 simple comparisons, I'll pass them on to her.

I have a question: Why weren't these guys given the appropriate type of vehicles? What's going on about that? " . . . the Army promised when they headed for Iraq in February that they would be given armored vehicles. "They lied to us," Mechanick said. No armor guarantees protection, but even unarmored Humvees would have at least been low to the ground and fast." That sounds kind of "Nam"-ish. Any ideas?

Posted by ex-lib 2004-05-18 10:59:16 PM|| 2004-05-18 10:59:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Speaking of Humvees, a Soldier of Fortune bashed them as too weak to stand up even with up-armoring, and suggested switching to a light, tracked APC called the M113 Gavin ...

Posted by Edward Yee 2004-05-18 11:10:46 PM|| [http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2004-05-18 11:10:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Thanks for posting this!!!

Our local upstate paper so severly edited down this story that it appeared that the survivors were just embittered and disillusioned about Brown's death.

Haag is a bona fide upstate NY hero yet we were not given any of this information. Incredible.

Posted by JDB 2004-05-18 11:34:01 PM|| 2004-05-18 11:34:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 A lot of this has to do with how the Army classifies infantry. There are mech, Bradley, light, airborne and air-assault varieties. IMO, the Army needs to learn from the Marines who consider infantry to be infantry. If the mission is airmobile, they cover down on helicopters. If the mission requires light armor, they cover down on LAVs. Amphibious -- amphtracks. Jarhead, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Marines train on all of these platforms as they go through their training cycle.

For the Army to put a light unit like this into M113's (which as EY suggests would save a lot of lives and additionally would be pretty cheap since we have a lot of M113's sitting around) is pure heresy. We'd have to re-train them, put them through NTC, conduct an EXEVAL, change the TO&E. etc. While all of that is true, it ignores the basic fact that the mission dictates that these soldiers need armored protection, not their TO&E. They're using the trucks as APCs anyway. Why not put them in real ones?

Posted by 11A5S 2004-05-19 1:25:21 PM|| 2004-05-19 1:25:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 11A5S/EL> The Marine Battalions have three rifle companies and one weapons company. The weapons company usually has anti-armor and heavy gun units in Hummers. They sometime detach out their 81 mortars platoon. The grunt companies are dedicated each to AAVs, Helos, and boats respectively - hence combined arms meets combined maneuver platforms - and all in one battalion. We do cross train on all of them, that's just basic sops so no matter what your on you can operate well. The big difference in culture between us and the soldiers is that we often task organize for the mission. Not sure why these guys were in 5 tons so close to ambush sites or for that matter how a Sgt so far down the totem pole says how he was promised armor other then hearsay running around the platoon. No Sergeant in the Corps is going to know any high level logistics having to do w/armor. My guess is that they were or are supposed to be motorized infantry not mechanized, hence motorized lads need lots more flank security during movements. Sounds like the unit made a tactical mistake or didn't recon the area well and was lucky a guy like Haag step up to be the hero. This is just my initial guess but I could be off.

Ex-lib> Sorry to hear a pinko is teaching revisionist history to your daughter.
(1) have her ask her prof how many men died between Mar 1965 and Mar '66 in 'Nam compared to 1 yr. in Iraq.
(2) There is actually some sort of Iraqi exit strategy, the 'Nam exit strategy was almost non-existant to say the least.
(3) Rummy's about a million times better then McNamara.
(4) 'Nam had Giap and Ho, who the hell does Iraq have?
(5) The only thing that's similar is the number of morons we still have in the media and in the school system. (maybe she shouldn't use the last one but it would be funny)

Posted by Jarhead 2004-05-19 1:58:30 PM|| 2004-05-19 1:58:30 PM|| Front Page Top

13:58 Jarhead
13:25 11A5S
09:45 Robert Crawford
07:55 Mitch H.
04:44 Anonymous4617
04:13 Phil B
02:52 Mark Espinola
01:21 Lucky
01:14 Anonymous4617
00:32 Mike Sylwester
00:25 Zenster
00:19 RMcLeod
00:16 Bomb-a-rama
00:15 Mike Sylwester
23:53 Mark Espinola
23:46 Anonymous2U
23:40 Anonymous2U
23:34 JDB
23:23 Pappy
23:12 Edward Yee
23:10 Edward Yee
23:01 rex
22:59 ex-lib
22:52 Mike Sylwester