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2004-06-08 Home Front: Tech

BP First to Provide Hydrogen at Existing Filling Station

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Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-06-08 12:41:34 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Insert Hindenberg joke here.

Posted by someone 2004-06-08 1:16:04 AM|| 2004-06-08 1:16:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Hydrogen from where? Clean how? Do they only split it from water by electricity produced by solar cells? Or do they reform it from nasty petroleum with energy intensive high temp processes like 99% of the hydrogen commercially produced?

Posted by Craig 2004-06-08 7:34:30 AM|| 2004-06-08 7:34:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I was talking to my boss yesterday(he is a chemist, works for wyeth supporting the local hi-tech equiptment) aparently there is alot of free floating hydrogen in water, you don't need to seperate it from the oxygen to get at it, you do need something that is good at sucking up the hydrogen though, 'parently theres various substances/metals/whatevers that are pretty good at it.
so it's vry possible they are selling gray water or something

Posted by dcreeper 2004-06-08 8:34:47 AM|| 2004-06-08 8:34:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 BP today announced that it has added fuelling facilities to provide hydrogen..

I'm curious: isn't hydrogen difficult to confine in a container? And since it is flammable, how much of a danger does it pose in use as a fuel?

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-06-08 10:56:50 AM|| 2004-06-08 10:56:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 The Hindenburg over NYC a few minutes before. . .

(USCRC)

Will New Jersey ban Hydrogen stations?

Posted by BigEd 2004-06-08 11:21:10 AM|| 2004-06-08 11:21:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 isn't hydrogen difficult to confine in a container?
Yes, it really, really want's to escape. Any little leak and it will find it.
And since it is flammable, how much of a danger does it pose in use as a fuel?
Less than you would think. Because it is lighter than air if it escapes, it goes up. If you watch the Hindenburg video, the flame is rising up while people are running from under it. I have read that most of the causualities were caused by the diesel fuel burning and falling wreckage. Safer than gasoline which pools on the ground and burns.

Posted by Steve 2004-06-08 11:26:35 AM|| 2004-06-08 11:26:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 The problem with shipping hydrogen is that it is really energy inefficient. Hydrogen under pressure contains far less energy than the equivalent volume of gasoline and requires a heavy containment tank. (I haven't checked the chemistry but I am reasonably sure hydrogen under pressure does not liquify at any temperature we can reasonably achieve) Its like heating up gasoline to create a gas in order to ship it. It doesn't make any sense.

Posted by Phil B 2004-06-08 12:35:06 PM|| 2004-06-08 12:35:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Hydrogen does liquify at achievable temperatures. All the gas products companies such as Air Products, Air Liquide, BOC produce cryogenic storage tanks for hydrogen. Your point is taken though, Phil. The tanks constantly vent hydrogen if the hydrogen is not constantly in use. The hydrogen simply boils off regardless of how well the tank is made. (Typically there is an annular void space between the outer and inner tank to prevent convective and conductive heat transfer between the walls. Radiative heat transfer can not be prevented however.) Also, it takes a lot of energy to cool the hydrogen to cryogenic temperatures.

Posted by Zpaz 2004-06-08 2:17:04 PM|| 2004-06-08 2:17:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Alcohol. Think "fuel cell".

Posted by mojo 2004-06-08 2:45:50 PM|| 2004-06-08 2:45:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Oh, and that hydrogen bleeding can build up with nasty results. If any of you have watched the shuttle lift off, they use a sparker beneath the shuttle to vaporize any loose hyrdogen so it can't build up beneath the system.

Oh, and Challenger explosion is a nice example of what happens when liquid hydrogen and flame come into contact.

I did read somewhere that they had a plan to use a detergent with hyrdogen bound into the flakes. Solid would be the safest form, but I don't think you could really store enough hyrdogen that way to do any good.

Posted by Ruprecht 2004-06-08 4:44:17 PM|| 2004-06-08 4:44:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Hydrogen is difficult to contain because the atoms are so small that they can fit between the cracks of larger atoms. Leaks are exasperated.

Posted by BigEd 2004-06-08 4:44:59 PM|| 2004-06-08 4:44:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Has anyone looked into the problems caused by hydrogen-fueled cars when they get into wrecks? Back when I was a firefighter, we watched out for propane and other pressurized cylinders - they could be a real danger, particularly in a fire.

Yes, I know the problems caused by gas and diesel tanks after car wrecks, particularly since any leaking liquid pools and can easily (in the case of gas) ignite. But pressurized tanks give me the willies at a fire or accident scene.

No matter how much someone reassures me, whenever I see "hydrogen fueled" I think "Hindenburg."

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-06-08 5:34:12 PM|| 2004-06-08 5:34:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Ok, so forget hydrogen it's too dangerous. The US has the largest deposits of Helium in the world we are the Saudi Arabia and Russia of Helium. It's twice has good as hydrogen.

/Dr. Science

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-08 7:08:14 PM|| 2004-06-08 7:08:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Too bad we couldn't somehow harness all the hot air let out by the left . . .

Posted by The Doctor 2004-06-08 7:11:19 PM|| 2004-06-08 7:11:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Zpaz, thanks for the correction. What I should have said was we can reasonably achieve in the transportation process

Methanol/ethanol looks like the answer for fuel cells. Liquid at room temperature, and can be mixed with water to make it non-flammable. Yes folks, a car that can run on beer or other beverage of your choice.

Posted by Phil B 2004-06-08 7:34:14 PM|| 2004-06-08 7:34:14 PM|| Front Page Top

15:08 BMN
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