Article

2004-06-16 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by .com 2004-06-16 4:07:15 PM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Time to sharpen the knives.

Posted by Sludj 2004-06-16 4:11:12 PM|| 2004-06-16 4:11:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Seems releasing this information is designed to flush him out.

Posted by rich woods 2004-06-16 4:14:11 PM|| 2004-06-16 4:14:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 In light of the total and consistent duplicity by Islamists, this just as easily could be a ploy for encouraging American forces to commit some sort of final outrage before departing.

All said and done, I'd just as soon use this information as a reason for cordoning off the entire town to catch Zarqawi and Sadr in the same net.

Posted by Zenster 2004-06-16 4:25:09 PM|| 2004-06-16 4:25:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 That'll be one large net. Sadr's not in Fallujah. Sadr's not a Sunni. Sadr's down South, hoping to obfuscate his official status as a murder suspect and 'unofficial' status as an Iranian agent and general failure as a revolutionary Shi'a insurrection instigator.

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 4:30:21 PM|| 2004-06-16 4:30:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 what pd/dot com said.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-16 5:10:29 PM|| 2004-06-16 5:10:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 It'd still be a good excuse to clobber Fallujah to pry him out. But I don't think it'll happen. The casualties would be too high, and it looks like they're trying to avoid that because of the election. Bad idea.

Very bad.

Posted by fred 2004-06-16 5:11:39 PM|| 2004-06-16 5:11:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 According to the report, Zarqawi is currently in Fallujah and is personally protected by a group of jihadis among the âinsurgentsâ now in control of that city. .com: what's your best assessment on how much control the insurgents wield in Fallujah? I understand they can do force projection, but do you think they maintain control over the majority of the city?

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-06-16 5:19:57 PM|| 2004-06-16 5:19:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Well we can't level fallujah...

But don't we have some CIA agents or something we can send in to off him?

(If he's there...)

Posted by sonic 2004-06-16 5:31:38 PM|| [http://sonicpuke.blogspot.com/] 2004-06-16 5:31:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I hate to think that the election will prevent us from capturing or killing a known terrorist. I suspect that bagging Zarqawi in Falluja would actually go over pretty well with the electorate even if there are a lot of casualties.

I suspect that if the info is solid and the locals do not cooperate, we'll send in the Marines. We're not Spanish. The problem is that our leadership may not trust the info it's getting enough to make the call.

The fact that electoral politics may play a role here is part of the price we pay for living in a democracy. But it need not be too high a price and it's worth it.

Posted by JAB 2004-06-16 5:43:28 PM|| 2004-06-16 5:43:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 RM - I'm not claiming to be an authority on Fallujah - just keeping tabs on the available sources like everyone else here. A few things are clear and well documented / reported:

1) the core of the hardcore 'insurgents' are foreign (Syrian, et al)

2) they have made common cause alliance with the remaining frightened Sunnis / Thugs (smuggling center) / Saddamite Ba'athists / Ba'athist sympathizers (maybe as much as a third or half of the population, in total?)

3) this will obviously vary in strength as each feels threatened or sees advantage elsewhere; separating these allies was the intent of the political intervention... it failed miserably, IMO

4) they are well-armed (the Syrian pipeline is obviously active - see Weddings)

5) thanks to political meddling they gained strength and support from their media-enhanced 'victory' over the Marines

6) and they need only intimidate the population (very easy for a very few to cow very many in Arab culture) to control the city

Just my observations from what I've read that seems credible. I'm sure others can extend the list for 'why' they are a very real center of power for the jihadists in Iraq. I see no solution to this other than brute force - which was working very very well (remember the outcry against us as the Marines were reducing them methodically - perfect proof that it really hurt) before the politics intervened.

If anyone has a reasoned argument that somehow Fallujah will 'magically' stop being a jihadi stronghold and thorn in the side of Iraq until cleared out, I'd love to read it.

Just my $0.02. Apologies for windiness.

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 5:59:31 PM|| 2004-06-16 5:59:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 No apologies necessary...that's quality windage. I had been trying to follow the situation but good info on our position there has been hard to come by - I thought we still might have some Marines in forward positions. We did have em squeezed at one point. Unfortunatley, I don't see us stirring up the hornets nest as we get close to the election, so perhaps the idea of trying to flush him holds water. Would be a good thing to bag this @sswipe.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-06-16 6:28:53 PM|| 2004-06-16 6:28:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 RM - Agreed, it's not likely... But Zarqawi is worth the 'grief' that would ensue, IMO. All worthwhile acts seem to have a price tag attached which is (usually) equivalent to the reward - nothing ventured, nothing gained... They don't consult me, however... ;-)

Here's a great link that contains some information that is very different from the press reports (voluminous, but worthlessly flawed by bias) and the damned trickle we get from CENTCOM. I think you'll find info both supportive and contrary - and of such are horse races made, lol!

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 6:50:49 PM|| 2004-06-16 6:50:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 I'm having heart palpatations: on Fox Charles Krauthammer is saying Fallujah's not a US problem, it's an Iraqi problem... Mara Liasson (NPR) and Jerff Birnbaum (WaPo) are saying we can't leave such a large nest of vipers (my phrasing) intact - the Iraqis aren't capable politically or militarily to deal with it.

OMG (and I'm an atheist, lol!) Ethel - get my pills!

I'll have to go think long and hard about this - the customary wisdom of juxtaposition from idiotarians has just failed me - big time!

Hey, whadda you think? I'm gabberflasted!

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 6:57:43 PM|| 2004-06-16 6:57:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Now Fox is reporting that Marines are, again, accompanying the 'Fallujah Brigade' patrols into the city. Yes! Also, that the info from Baziyani (I misspelled it in original post - apologies, Fred!) was corroborated from other intel sources and it seems to be very firm.

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 7:04:31 PM|| 2004-06-16 7:04:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Wasn;t there a post yesterday or sometime this week saying that the Fallujah Brigade was a big dissapointment to the Marines? If so, Kimmet just lost his job. That was his baby. We need to "rubbelize" that town. I don't think anything short of that is going to get the point across. Too much friggin State Department going on here. Need more Marines!

Posted by remote man 2004-06-16 7:23:07 PM|| 2004-06-16 7:23:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Joint patrols....good. June 30 is 2 weeks away. Things are bound to get hot real soon. We may not stir the hornets nest, but we better be in a position to deliver some smackdown should the situation arise. And thanks fer the links .com...much appreciated.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-06-16 7:26:46 PM|| 2004-06-16 7:26:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 remote man: I didn't see the post but for both the ICDC and Fallujah Brigade it's been mixed. I have seen some good after action reports (written up by the Marines themselves) where units from both organizations did well, so the cup's either half empty or half full. The fact that it's mostly foreign jihadists in Fallujah now may tilt it in our favor.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-06-16 7:38:59 PM|| 2004-06-16 7:38:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Wasn;t there a post yesterday or sometime this week saying that the Fallujah Brigade was a big dissapointment to the Marines?

Yep, the Fallujah Brigade has not in the whole learned to properly fold up their new orange Sam Brown belts into a nice 4 x 3 with shiny badge showing.

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-16 7:55:58 PM|| 2004-06-16 7:55:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I'm having heart palpatations: on Fox Charles Krauthammer is saying Fallujah's not a US problem, it's an Iraqi problem... Mara Liasson (NPR) and Jerff Birnbaum (WaPo) are saying we can't leave such a large nest of vipers (my phrasing) intact - the Iraqis aren't capable politically or militarily to deal with it.

It's not really stunning when you look at the context. The 'other side of the aisle' realises they aren't going to have any traction going into November by maintaining the present "Screamin' Dean" philosophy of opposing the war.

It's also a chance to score points by saying the war isn't being run right. That's a legitimate argument, but this is more a CYA moment than an actual flash of wisdom.

Posted by Pappy 2004-06-16 8:12:58 PM|| 2004-06-16 8:12:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 If Fallujah (and major points west) becomes inarguably THE identifiable rats nest of the triangle, then I think the Marines need to finish the job they started so well. As usual, I worry that there is the political will to do what is required.

Posted by remote man 2004-06-16 8:33:49 PM|| 2004-06-16 8:33:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Rex M - did you enjoy the 'Divine Intervention' claims in the June 11 email?

Jinn / Djin are, apparently, pre-emminent on the field in Iraq. To show proper respect, you are hereby commanded by xxx to install this Djin Clock Screensaver, lol! Of course, I wouldn't touch the D/L with a 10 ft pole, considering!

7th century may be a tad optimistic...

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 8:45:05 PM|| 2004-06-16 8:45:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 [A] race of beings created from the intense desert winds who were flaunting Allah's laws.

And, lo, unto them Volkswagen gave the name, "Scirocco!" Yea, so it has been said that, even now to this very day, proper Muslim women may not steer them yet.

Posted by Zenster 2004-06-16 10:00:50 PM|| 2004-06-16 10:00:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Lol, Zen - the VW / wymyns bit is truly funny! Bravo!

Posted by .com 2004-06-16 10:50:38 PM|| 2004-06-16 10:50:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 I am in total agreement with Charles Krauthammer. No move should be made until the Iraqi governement decides that enough of their citizens are dead.

Freedom requires a blood price - many of our Declaration signers paid for their signature with their lives, homes and/or family.

If they aren't strong enough to act themselves, and are politically unwilling to let the Pershmergas butcher Zarqawi than they certainly have enough freedom and soverignity to ask for our help. We should treat this as if they have the veto power that was so important to the French UN Ambassador.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-06-16 10:56:30 PM|| 2004-06-16 10:56:30 PM|| Front Page Top

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