Article

2004-06-23 Arabia

Arabs Look at Themselves and Don't Like It

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by tipper 2004-06-23 08:38|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Ignoring new, or foreign, ideas, has long been an Arab custom. But now many more Arabs are beginning to see it as a bad idea.

Another bad idea is blaming Israel for all the Arab world's troubles. Most of the Arabs killed in wars and terrorist violence during the last half century had nothing to do with Israel. For example, the 1980s war between Iraq and Iran, which killed several hundred thousand Arabs, had nothing to do with Israel.

A beautiful light shines when a people are willing to confront their own demons.

Posted by jules 187 2004-06-23 10:28:12 AM|| 2004-06-23 10:28:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I hate to admit it, but I was hearing MJs "Man in the Mirror" song while I was reading this.

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-06-23 10:31:18 AM|| 2004-06-23 10:31:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 He sings? Is there nothing that Michael Jordan can't do?

Posted by BH 2004-06-23 11:00:24 AM|| 2004-06-23 11:00:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Technical note: Iranians and many other Shiites are *not* Arabs. They are "Indo-European" (sometimes called "Aryan") ethnically, and this *ethnic* difference is at the root of a lot of the Sunni-Shiite animosity.
The Shiite also differ in that their abhorence to modernity can be traced to a single man, the Persian philosopher Al-Ghizzali, who, for nationalist reasons, taught the rejection of all knowledge not found in the Quran.
The Arab peoples have some religious and some cultural reasons for primitivism, but only slowly and never totally discarded modernism in the fringes of their society.
Dating from Ghizzali's writings begins the end of scientific advance and innovation in the Moslem world, however.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-06-23 11:30:53 AM|| 2004-06-23 11:30:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 For example, the 1980s war between Iraq and Iran, which killed several hundred thousand Arabs, had nothing to do with Israel.

I am 99 and 77/100 percent sure that statement is wrong. Maybe not Israel but Zionists for surely.
Peace be ripon you infidels.

Posted by prince purdy naif 2004-06-23 11:34:07 AM|| 2004-06-23 11:34:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Technical note: Iranians and many other Shiites are *not* Arabs. They are "Indo-European" (sometimes called "Aryan") ethnically, and this *ethnic* difference is at the root of a lot of the Sunni-Shiite animosity.
Anonymoose-wasn't sure if this was directed to my comments, but my intention was to apply the word "people" instead of selecting "Arabs", etc. (terms of national or ethnic identification), making this idea universally applicable to any group of humans with shared beliefs.

If not, then as Gilda Radner would say, never mind. :)

Posted by jules 187 2004-06-23 11:49:18 AM|| 2004-06-23 11:49:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Further notes
1. Some persian speakers ARE sunnis - notably in Central Asia.
2. Some Shia ARE arabs - notably in Iraq, in eastern Saudi Arabia, and in Lebanon.
3.Indo-European or "indo-aryan" are language groupings, and this does not necessarily mean a common physical origin. Swedes for example, are physically similar to Finns, who speak a non or pre-Indo-European language. Languages are carried by conquerors, who typically assimilate physically to the conquered, even while imposing their own culture.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-23 1:03:22 PM|| 2004-06-23 1:03:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Languages are carried by conquerors, who typically assimilate physically to the conquered, even while imposing their own culture.

That would explain my red skin and passion for Sinatra.

Posted by Zpaz 2004-06-23 1:25:37 PM|| 2004-06-23 1:25:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 They are "Indo-European" (sometimes called "Aryan") ethnically, and this *ethnic* difference is at the root of a lot of the Sunni-Shiite animosity.

While not wishing to argue the technicalities of this observation, I think that Anonymoose is closer to the point.

The Arab peoples have some religious and some cultural reasons for primitivism, but only slowly and never totally discarded modernism in the fringes of their society. Dating from Ghizzali's writings begins the end of scientific advance and innovation in the Moslem world, however.

The biggest player in all of this seems to be a lusty desire to retain a hidebound fundamentalist interpretation of even the most self-contradictory doctrine. To doggedly embrace such a dualistic and self-negating philosophy literally guarantees the mindless slaughter that has accompanied Islam's entire existence.

Posted by Zenster 2004-06-23 1:28:56 PM|| 2004-06-23 1:28:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 LOL Zpaz!

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-23 2:36:40 PM|| 2004-06-23 2:36:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 The 19thc century immigrations are different - bronze age and earlier conquerors didnt have steamships to carry immigrants, and generally didnt have the population bases to supply such migrations anyway. Even so Mexico, central Ameria (other than Costa Rica) and several south american countries are basically unchanged racially from pre-columbian times, even while being overwhelming Spanish speaking. Ditto little physical change in Britain from Bronze age era, despite invasions of celts, romans, anglo-saxons, etc. And the areas which were linguistically arabized were still populated by the descendants of speakers of Syriac, coptic, and punic.

Note - exceptions when hunter gathers are replaced by more agriculturalists - this is the case in africa, where the bantus displaced the pygmies and click language speakers, and some other instances. (in fact to some extent this is the explanation in North America, and the South American cone)

I suggest "Guns, Germs, and Steel" for more.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-23 2:46:49 PM|| 2004-06-23 2:46:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Point taken, Running Hawk. I suggest "Luck be a Lady" or "Girl from Ipanema".

Posted by Zpaz 2004-06-23 3:41:42 PM|| 2004-06-23 3:41:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Arabs Look at Themselves and Don't Like It

But it sure beats smelling themselves...

Posted by Chris W. 2004-06-23 4:04:12 PM|| 2004-06-23 4:04:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 SOB
LH is an Anthro Major!
(me too, don't tell)

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-23 4:28:35 PM|| 2004-06-23 4:28:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Arabs Look at Themselves and Don't Like It.

World looks at Arabs and don't like 'em either.

Posted by Ruprecht 2004-06-23 5:05:49 PM|| [politicaljunky.blogspot.com] 2004-06-23 5:05:49 PM|| Front Page Top

08:04 Arijit
07:29 Anonymous5555
16:09 Anonymous5483
12:56 Anonymous5478
14:43 Sam
14:31 Jen
11:20 Aris Katsaris
11:05 Frank G
10:45 therien
09:11 TerrorHunter4Ever
08:25 Mitch H.
08:16 Aris Katsaris
05:20 someone
05:14 someone
02:36 therien
01:22 Jen
01:03 rex
00:54 ex-lib
00:49 Jen
00:43 rex
00:36 CrazyFool
00:33 Jen
00:25 rex
00:19 Jen