Article

2004-07-09 China-Japan-Koreas

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Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-09 10:57:15 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Refuse ships entry into US ports if they have cargo from China.

Posted by ed 2004-07-09 11:10:30 AM|| 2004-07-09 11:10:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 This really is a Big Deal. Regardless of their thinly-veiled justification BS about Aids drugs, caring for their people, yadda3, abrogating the Intellectual Property Rights Treaty is an open challenge to the West - an in your face FOAD challenge - of course they've been filching shit for decades on the back-burner. And if not addressed as a trade war challenge, will spread to others who will coat-tail for profit.

Funny, this seems to indicate that the Chinese leadership thinks we need the trade with them more than they need trade with us. Ummmmm, I don't theeeenk so, Wang-boy.

Posted by .com 2004-07-09 11:22:01 AM|| 2004-07-09 11:22:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 the Chinese leadership thinks we need the trade with them more than they need trade with us.

Gee, that sounds familiar.

Posted by Steve 2004-07-09 11:39:46 AM|| 2004-07-09 11:39:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 "...they've been filching shit for decades on the back-burner."

Ha, ha, ha, ha! At first glance I parsed that to read as felching shit! I almost popped a hernia.

CiT

Posted by CiT 2004-07-09 12:05:48 PM|| 2004-07-09 12:05:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 So is it time to call their bluff?

I think there'd be lotsa heart attacks all over China, from the tip-top of the commie kleptos all the way down to the factory mgrs...

Posted by .com 2004-07-09 12:11:37 PM|| 2004-07-09 12:11:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I thought China was trying to discourage procreation, given its one-child laws.

Posted by Eric Jablow 2004-07-09 12:12:19 PM|| 2004-07-09 12:12:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I think it's sad that they're trying to stiff Pfizer like this. I hope they come down hard on these guys.

Viagra - putting the "fun" back in dysfunction.

Posted by BH 2004-07-09 12:43:00 PM|| 2004-07-09 12:43:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 China has a very consistent pattern of ignoring intellectual property rights. There are "Hong Kong Catalogs" which permit one to purchase a counterfeit of any product you might wish to buy. China has undertaken very minor reforms. Refusing a patent is pretty serious stuff.

Posted by Anonymous5650 2004-07-09 1:25:47 PM|| 2004-07-09 1:25:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Steve (referring to Tom Clancy's novel "The Bear and the Dragon"): Gee, that sounds familiar.

Unfortunately, the stuff you see in Clancy's novel is dated. Very dated (back to the 1970's). Today's China is a capitalistic society, and growing very rapidly. Instead of improving relations with the US, the Russians are arming the Chinese with their latest stuff, and transferring technology as well. In fact, the Russians are selling weapons to practically anyone willing to pay cash (including weapons that find their way back to Chechnya). A huge amount of American high tech production is now done in China, through subcontractors like Sanmina, Flextronics, Jabil, et al. Any military conflict with China will cause serious disruptions in trade. This is probably why US business magazines are always downplaying the China (military) threat - because their advertisers in big business don't want to hear it (political correctness probably accounts for some portion, as well).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-09 1:52:22 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-07-09 1:52:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 I've been screaming this from the rooftops for some time now. China is nobody's friend but their own. They are economic terrorists to militant Islam's violent terrorists.

Zhang Fei's assessment is unfortunately close to the mark. Far too many campaign contributers rely upon China for their cheap consumer electronics to ever abide a trade boycott being sponsored by their minions in Washington DC.

It has been said that Microsoft has operated an office in China for years and has yet to see a penny in profit.

Through reliable online connections, I've heard of Chinese companies attempting to order a single copy of sophisticated and very expensive engineering modelling software, despite having thousands of employees. When offered a much less costly plan to merely lease access the software from a remote server they instead demanded that they be provided with the source code for the software, insisting that they never buy software without the source code.

They applied in the affirmative when asked if they used Microsoft Windows. When also asked if they had the source code (M/S's most carefully guarded secret) to Windows a thundering silence followed.

These people were demanding a single seat license for a company that required hundreds of engineers to work with the simulation software. They did not even blush at requesting the means to directly copy the product. Many districts in China are known as "one copy" regions where government operated enterprises purchase one copy of software and illegally duplicate the rest as needed.

Viagra is just the tip of the ... er, um ... ICEBERG! China needs to be slapped down hard and fast. Their proliferation of nuclear weapons and missile technology to rogue nations like North Korea and Iran will cost the world billions as it stands. China's economic terrorism is gutting other national economies and nobody seems to have the remotest clue as to what is going on.

Posted by Zenster 2004-07-09 3:20:42 PM|| 2004-07-09 3:20:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 They are economic terrorists to militant Islam's violent terrorists.

suppose a lefty drew a moral equivalence between some economic injustice and terrorism. NOT to defend China, but I mean really. Terrorism != to everything bad.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-09 3:23:53 PM|| 2004-07-09 3:23:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 suppose a lefty drew a moral equivalence between some economic injustice and terrorism.

You mean, like if they suggested that every decision the conservatives made was driven by racism? I agree, the terrorism label is overused. But come on, the left raises moral equivalence to an art form.

Posted by BH 2004-07-09 3:36:19 PM|| 2004-07-09 3:36:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 suppose a lefty drew a moral equivalence between some economic injustice and terrorism. You mean, like if they suggested that every decision the conservatives made was driven by racism? I agree, the terrorism label is overused. But come on, the left raises moral equivalence to an art form

Not disagreeing.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-09 3:39:42 PM|| 2004-07-09 3:39:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Zenster: Far too many campaign contributers rely upon China for their cheap consumer electronics to ever abide a trade boycott being sponsored by their minions in Washington DC.

It's not just cheap consumer electronics any more. Cisco, 3Com, Nortel, Lucent and Tellabs all do business with outsourcing firms that have large manufacturing operations in China. How much of this expertise is being exported to China, by virtue of manufacturing plants being built there? I would expect a lot.

Zenster: Through reliable online connections, I've heard of Chinese companies attempting to order a single copy of sophisticated and very expensive engineering modelling software, despite having thousands of employees. When offered a much less costly plan to merely lease access the software from a remote server they instead demanded that they be provided with the source code for the software, insisting that they never buy software without the source code.

Some of this is traditional Chinese arrogance (this is what I call 5,000-year syndrome). They really think they are the center of the universe, despite all evidence to the contrary. (As someone who previously worked with revenue numbers for a Fortune 50 technology firm, I can assure you that China remained a nit as of several years ago, as far as major computer purchases went - not even on par with Australia, a country with 1/50th the population). Either that, or they think Americans are stupid. You have to see the arrogance to believe it.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-09 4:35:12 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-07-09 4:35:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I thought they were trying to lower their population? What do they need stiffners for?

Posted by mojo 2004-07-09 5:27:24 PM|| 2004-07-09 5:27:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 How much of this expertise is being exported to China, by virtue of manufacturing plants being built there? I would expect a lot.

And by dint of this expertise outsourcing we are effectively financing the proliferation of nuclear technology to Iran and North Korea. Factor in the billions of dollars we will have to spend mopping up those two rogue nations and suddenly the cheap goods from China are no longer so cheap.

It's much the same way with gasoline. It looks pretty cheap at the pump, but after you multiply the price by all of the Mid-East defense dollars and domestic pollution costs, gasoline is some pretty expensive fuel.

One can only hope that China's imminent economic melt-down happens all the more quickly. We need this den of thieves to get a taste of the discord and havoc they sow elsewhere. Once AIDS and civil war piles their sidewalks with corpses, maybe the tune will change. In light of how entrenched Chinese delusions of superiority are, I doubt it.

Posted by Zenster 2004-07-09 5:29:23 PM|| 2004-07-09 5:29:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I thought they were trying to lower their population? What do they need stiffners for?

Difficult as it is to imagine, consider all of the tigers, bears and other endangered species that will begin to flourish once more as their body parts are no longer required due to introduction of effective medications for erectile dysfunction.

As with most industrialized nations, older men have a lot of economic power and likewise suffer from erectile dysfunction the most too. Viagra will be well received by much of the older male population, especially considering the negative side effects of tobacco and alcohol consumption which is rampant in Chinese men.

Posted by Zenster 2004-07-09 5:37:26 PM|| 2004-07-09 5:37:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Zenster: It's much the same way with gasoline. It looks pretty cheap at the pump, but after you multiply the price by all of the Mid-East defense dollars and domestic pollution costs, gasoline is some pretty expensive fuel.

As of today, there is no good alternative to gasoline. And we have to defend ourselves anyway - ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons can't be uninvented.

One can only hope that China's imminent economic melt-down happens all the more quickly.

As of today, I don't see it happening. I don't see China becoming Japan in 50 years, but I don't see China melting down either. The fact is that China is today being run pretty well compared to its peers - Indonesia, Cambodia, Philippines, Vietnam, et al - infrastructure is being added at a relatively rapid clip - roads, telecoms, electricity, et al. Unemployment is high, but basic goods are very cheap - and this without any significant government subsidies, unlike in other countries in its peer group. China's current GDP is only $1T (vs Uncle Sam's $15T) and it already has a significant military profile. In 2020, when China's nominal GDP is $4T (based on 9% annual growth), it will have gained appreciably in relative terms compared to Uncle Sam's projected $27T (based on 4% annual growth). I suspect a lot of China's neighbors are going to get a lot closer to the US between now and then, assuming no one has burned any bridges.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-09 5:45:53 PM|| 2004-07-09 5:45:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Well, at least I hope the cheap Viagra knockoffs save a few rhinos, tigers and bears.

Posted by 3dc 2004-07-09 7:24:11 PM|| 2004-07-09 7:24:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 3dc: Well, at least I hope the cheap Viagra knockoffs save a few rhinos, tigers and bears.

My understanding is that the genuine Viagra is way cheaper than the traditional aphrodisiacs. At drugstore.com a single tablet costs $10 a pop. A quick google search revealed that at 1991 prices, the cost per kilogram of rhino horn averaged at $10,000.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-09 7:34:06 PM|| 2004-07-09 7:34:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Eric Jablow: I thought China was trying to discourage procreation, given its one-child laws.

Procreation and sex are two different things. Chinese men have traditionally tended to have multiple wives, back in the days before polygamy was outlawed in the 20th century. These days, they just keep mistresses - at least those who can afford it.

There are significant financial penalties for having more than one child in China - with a fine for each additional child set at 10,000 yuan, or two years' salary for the average blue collar worker. Abortion is available on demand. Condoms and oral contraceptives are readily available at relatively low prices. Vasectomy is an option.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-09 7:42:48 PM|| 2004-07-09 7:42:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Just seems like more international economic hardball to me.

India doesnât recognize chemical substance patents so their chemical companies developed their own method for making Viagra and now ship it all over the world.

Canada forces US companies to sell drugs in Canada at âfairâ prices otherwise Canadian companies are allowed to ignore the patents.

US software patents have gotten so ridiculous that small software companies have no way of knowing whether they are infringing or not. Even the threat of a patent infringement suit can destroy the small company. The big tech companies use large patent portfolios as a barrier to entry. If you want to play in the game you have to have a large patent portfolio to swap.

The extension of copyright coverage for so many years reflects the US legislature pushing US company interests. The US then pressures countries around the world to follow US copyright and patent law.

I donât think Microsoft cares that China, India, and many other countries steal their software. In the past those countries havenât been a big potential market. The widespread use of pirated software stops China or India from developing a home-grown threat to the Microsoft operating system. Also it helps keep Linux from getting a foothold in those countries. On the other hand Microsoft is very concerned about and works to prevent China making and selling counterfeit MS software products.

Japan got its start in electronics by ignoring US patents.

Fifteen years ago an executive friend servicing the Carrier Air Conditioning account for South Korea described the games the Koreans used to get access to his companyâs intellectual property rights for Korean companies.

As I see it all countries play these games. China will push the limits and the US and other countries will push back.

Posted by Anonymous5032 2004-07-09 8:04:20 PM|| 2004-07-09 8:04:20 PM|| Front Page Top

11:49 Antiwar
11:45 Antiwar
16:37 Faisal
16:37 Faisal
14:57 Liberalhawk
14:57 Liberalhawk
14:52 11A5S
14:52 11A5S
14:44 Liberalhawk
14:44 Liberalhawk
14:13 Liberalhawk
14:13 Liberalhawk
13:39 Faisal
13:39 Faisal
13:32 Faisal
13:32 Faisal
13:15 Faisal
13:15 Faisal
11:47 therien
11:47 therien
11:45 therien
11:45 therien
11:40 Antiwar
11:31 Antiwar