Article

2004-08-23 Terror Networks

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Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 2:47:12 PM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sink Trap.

Posted by .com 2004-08-23 12:16:09 AM|| 2004-08-23 12:16:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Allow Gentle her moment in the sun.

Now then, Gentle: if this is what Islam says, then why are there so many 'honor killings' in Islamic countries? And what would you do, as a good Muslim woman, to bring these killings to an end?

Posted by Steve White 2004-08-23 12:20:35 AM|| 2004-08-23 12:20:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#3
an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada

It's too bad that Islamic scholars in Canada exert so little influence on the countries that are populated by Moslems.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-08-23 12:57:11 AM|| 2004-08-23 12:57:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Islam strictly prohibits murder and killing without legal justification...No one has the authority to execute the law other than the officers who are in charge.

Hence the report from Iran of a judge who personally placed the noose around the neck of a 16-year old defendent. After a trial of course, where the family could not find a lawyer willing to defend her...

Posted by Pappy 2004-08-23 1:52:27 AM|| 2004-08-23 1:52:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Um, guys ... where's the contradiction here? She says right there in plain ~~Arabic~~ English, "Islam strictly prohibits murder and killing without legal justification". You know, like:

Being non-Muslim
Leaving Islam
Exercising free will, or, most heinous of all,
Exacerbating any of the above offenses (as young Ateqeh Sahaleh recently did) by brazenly having a ~~foul tunnel to eternal damnation~~ vagina.

Gentle, I'm asking you this in all sincerity ... Look at "normal culture" in the Mideast: madrassahs, clitoridectomies, veiled women, public stonings, persecution of non- and ex-Muslims, mad mullahs, Wahhabi necrophilia, and yes, honor killings -- all having nothing to do with Israel. Do these things truly leave you feeling less outraged than dot-com's titty pics or my rambling tirades? Is the urge to "enlighten" us from half a world away truly more passionate than the need to improve your own culture from within?

Only when you quit typing, stand up, go outside and DO SOMETHING ... then and ONLY THEN can you chastise us as ignorant Zionist bigots.

I'm sure you're a Western troll having fun, but if perchance you are whom you say you are, then yours is the basest form of slavery: you're a Muslim woman defending Islam. For that alone, I won't tell you to go to hell; you're already there.

Posted by Another Dan 2004-08-23 2:49:39 AM|| 2004-08-23 2:49:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I suppose anger won't work, thgough it is what you deserve for not seeing the plain truth that is just staring you in the face.

Here, in the Emirates, while you think that I am diffrent than other girls in being more free of our "traditions" you are mistaken.
I am diffrent, you see, they think that I am painfully conservative.
Do you understand?
They think that my values are too strict.
And you think that I am the "Liberal" part of the arab world.
Think again. Think again.

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 4:15:36 AM|| 2004-08-23 4:15:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 So is the murder of sisters, wives and cousins - now prevalent in Muslim ghettoes in Britain - just a 'cultural' phenomenon and nothing to do with Islam. What, exactly, are you trying to say m'dear?

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 4:37:24 AM|| 2004-08-23 4:37:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Gentle, let me free you from the bonds of your conservatism. Come live with me in Las Vegas -- yes, Sin City. Your friends will be positively green with envy. You'll love it here. It's desert-like, hot, and sinful beyond your wildest dreams. Such decadence you cannot imagine. Come. Come see it for yourself. Live your dreams. Live your fantasies. Sodom & Gomorrah, pfeh - child's play.

Vegas.

Come.

Posted by .Abu Johnny Holmes 2004-08-23 4:49:35 AM|| 2004-08-23 4:49:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Yes Howerd. That is exactly what I am trying to say. The point is not that they are muslims, but that they come from a country that has a practice which Islam ended centuries ago.
What if Brits commited honor killings, under another name of course, what would that make them?
I think you call them passion crimes, right?

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 4:50:12 AM|| 2004-08-23 4:50:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes, crimes of passion - but we have a small muslim population who commit a disproportionately large number of these crimes themselves - I had the unfortunate pleasure of working on a recent case from a medical angle. A muslim girl at my school who was 'spirited' simply disappeared and was never seen nor heard of again. Islam may not be the cause, but the subjugation of women that it imposes cannot help to irradicate such barbarity.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 4:55:41 AM|| 2004-08-23 4:55:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 There is no subjugation of women in Islam.
Give an example.
I know, you'll say you don't even know where to start, being on this site, but try.
Please do.

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 5:05:02 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:05:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 From my own experiences of Muslims in the UK - there may be no wearing of burkas or genital mutilation (thankfully) - the subjugation of women is achieved by a patriarchal culture that seemingly stifles their opportunities. There are two types of muslim in the UK - those who live according to western mores and those who abide by the cultural mores of their forefathers. The womenfolk of the latter bearly make it out of the kitchen, receive little education, are poisoned by their religion, are forced to marry against their will and are often the victims of domestic violence. I have worked in secondary schools in London and have seen this at first hand.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 5:23:08 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:23:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 You said it:
Cultural!

Islam demands that both women and men receive education from cradle to Grave.
No women, or man, is to be married against his or her will. If it does happen, the marriege is not valid.
No women should be subjected to violance, no matter from who.
The most the prophet allowed was for the women to be hit by her huband was with a short (4-5 inches) little thin soft peice of wood.

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 5:30:17 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:30:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Yes, when I say 'culture' dipshit, it tends to encompass religion, not exclude it.. A religion that advocates the beating of women has no place on this earth nor do its followers.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 5:37:48 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:37:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 But it does not!
It forbids it.
Does your religion do that?
does it FORBID it?

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 5:47:35 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:47:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 The most the prophet allowed was for the women to be hit by her huband was with a short (4-5 inches) little thin soft peice [sic] of wood.

Damn. I'm converted. That did it.
I rest my case. Gentle, for your reward, your loving hubby will now paddle your bizazeek with a popsicle stick for the Almighty while I sleep. Goodnight.

Posted by Another Dan 2004-08-23 5:48:01 AM|| 2004-08-23 5:48:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 OK - so it's ok to use a little bit of wood but that doesn't constitute a beating. That's still violence against women. I haven't read a bible in years so couldn't possibly answer that question - some of us thrive on our own moral values - not those of a thousand+ year old book.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 6:06:26 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:06:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Ever thought for yourself, Gentle? Or are you going to live your whole life a slave to your particular religion?

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-23 6:10:57 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:10:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Does that mean that christians and Brits:
A) Do not read the bible except once in a blue moon.
B) Think they know better than their own religion.
c) Are not much informed.
(The Quran is more than 1400 years old)
D) Like to insult other religions.
E) Think that their religion has no moral values.

Am I correct?

Or should I realize that:
A) You might not be a representative of all christians.
B) I might have misunderstood some of what you said.
C) One of us is just looking for a fight.

???

That is what you people do when it comes to muslims.

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 6:16:11 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:16:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Contestant: I'll take PERVERSIONS for $200, Alex.

Alex: A sick ideology posing as a religion incubated by a dysfunctional culture.

Contestant: What is Islam?

Alex: Correct.

Posted by Mark Z. 2004-08-23 6:18:24 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:18:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#21
Alex: You are $200 up, moving to...
Ooooops, sorry.
The answer is wrong.
The correct one is:
What do we , wrongfully, accuse Islam of being?

Contestant: But... They... Rantburg... I....

******************************************

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-23 6:23:28 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:23:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 There appear two types of muslim in the UK - those that have left the stone age mentality behind and those that haven't. Those that haven't are more likely to be the ones murdering female relatives. How much this is due to culture (excluding religion) or religion itself is difficult to say. However, a religion that advocates the use of violence against women is re-inforcing a culture of violence. My solution - close down the mosques.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 6:25:32 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:25:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 And, Gentle, you've never had to explain to a teenage female Muslim student terrified of going home to an abusive father, that there is nothing you can do except contact social services. Neither have you seen the bruises on female muslim students - nor have you had female muslim students simply 'disappear' into thin air. These are presumably the actions of male muslims who haven't strayed too far from the mainstream - look at the Taliban if you want an extreme example of misogyny.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 6:33:07 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:33:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 I thought this was more a culture thing, Paki and Indian folks go in for this "honor killing" mostly and plenty of the Indains are Hindu. Not that I make any excuse for the way Muslims I have be around treat their women. However I know plenty of "white guys" that treat their spouses and kids like property/dirt and as bad. Folks that act like that are generally are pretty weak.

I am making no apoligies for Islam. I consider Islam to be a form of satanic death worship.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-23 6:42:54 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:42:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 But do the Sikh / Hindu religions advocate the beating of women? Sure, they treat them like shit in the same way, but I'm not sure their women are intimidated to the same degree or are the focus of the same level of violence as muslim women. Certainly, there's not much in it.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 6:49:21 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:49:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 People involved in so much hate as the satanic death cult of Islam are more pathological. So I can see them beating and killing their women and thinking it's fine and is accepted even under their hate filled satanic faith.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-23 6:59:08 AM|| 2004-08-23 6:59:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 From Ibn Sa`d's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, translated by S. Moinul Haq, volume 2, page 31.

SARIYYAH OF `UMAYR IBN `ADI

Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah. `Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No. Two goats will butt together about her (i.e. No one will care). This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).

I guess it all depends on what your definition of "short little thin soft peice of wood" is. "No one has the authority to execute the law other than the officers who are in charge", unless it personally benefits Mohammed, and therefore Islam.

Posted by ed 2004-08-23 8:18:36 AM|| 2004-08-23 8:18:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 *yawns* Get back to me,Gentle, when such speeches issue from the Mosques and Universities of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Until then, for all I know, this is all "Tell them what they want to hear until we're strong enough to shove it down their throats" talk as far as I am concerned.

Sh*t. Why do Kerry and the Muslims talk and lie and flip alike?

Posted by Ptah 2004-08-23 8:27:23 AM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2004-08-23 8:27:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Gentle, You are my kind of woman. Will you marry me? I love you so much.

Posted by Three Monkies 2004-08-23 8:33:03 AM|| 2004-08-23 8:33:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 When Sheikh Ahmad Kutty is ready to go to Jordan and lead a demonstration against honor killings there we can take him seriously.

Posted by mhw 2004-08-23 8:57:59 AM|| 2004-08-23 8:57:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 There is no subjugation of women in Islam.
Give an example.

Under Shariah, it takes the testimony of two women to match the testimony of one man.

Under Shariah, a man can divorce a woman with a simple statement, and she has no recourse to property.

When Jordan attempted to outlaw "honor killings", the bill was struck down amidst cries that it was an "insult to Islam".

As for claiming that somehow the "honor killings" are distinct from Islam, what, besides Islam, is the common culture between Jordan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Afghanistan, and Iran?

Gentle, your ignorance of Islam is stunning. Or is it that you're lying to try to convince us of something?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-23 9:31:44 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-08-23 9:31:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 Here's where the rubber meets the road (cut and pasted from original article. Note below that he references killing of BELIEVERS only! Therefore, if you're an infidel (and who isn't these days?), it's o.k. to kill you!

Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, states:

âLike all other religions, Islam strictly prohibits murder and killing without legal justification. Allah, Most High, says, âWhoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.â (An-Nisaâ: 93)

Posted by BA 2004-08-23 9:32:34 AM|| 2004-08-23 9:32:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 To "Another Dan" who wrote about the custom of wife beating with only a small sized stick, and who takes issue with the Islamic reference to it, somehow you have forgotten that the phrase "rule of thumb" was meant to measure the size of stick by which an American could beat his wife with. This venerable tradition of English common law, adopted in many states in the 18th and 19th century, was not inspired by Islamic law. Ours is a Judeao-Chrsitian heritage.

Posted by Anonymous6147 2004-08-23 9:32:57 AM|| 2004-08-23 9:32:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 Okay, Gentle, that's two days in a row that you've subdued us with your gentle theory. As I said yesterday, we have to deal with the reality. How do you propose that your "religion of peace" will deal with its folks who brought us 9/11. etc. Flower power is not going to do it.

And wasn't it an Iranian Islamic "judicial administrator" who executed a sassy 16-year-old-girl in the story yesterday that set you off? Why do you rant about honor killing so much when that's not the main issue? Do you fear your own family? Who are you trying to convince? I have a 14-year-old daughter who makes me crazy, but I've never considered killing her for it. Who are you trying to convince?

Posted by Tom 2004-08-23 9:34:31 AM|| 2004-08-23 9:34:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 the phrase "rule of thumb" was meant to measure the size of stick by which an American could beat his wife with.

This is a myth:

Another problem is that
the phrase 'rule of thumb' is never found in connection with the
beating practice until the 1970s. Finally, there is no semantic
link [... from what was presumably a very specific distinction to
the current sense 'rough guideline']. The precise origin of 'rule
of thumb' is not certain, but it seems likely to refer to the thumb
as a rough measuring device ('rule' meaning 'ruler' rather than
'regulation'), which is a common practice. The linkage of the
phrase to the wife-beating rule appears to be based on a
misinterpretation of a 1976 National Organization of Women report,
which mentioned the phrase and the practice but did not imply a
connection. There is more information about this, with citations
from relevant sources, at the Urban Legends Archive."

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-23 9:47:05 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-08-23 9:47:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 Sorry, Fred, to be lengthy, but this one merits it:
Gentle-If you would, please answer these questions:

1.) What transgressions would fall under the legal justification for killing?
Apostasy? Belonging to another religion in a Muslim country?
Adultery?
Physical assault/abuse?
Something else?
How does the quote above tie into Sharia? What do you think â...Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose..." means?

2.) Also, please address the question of clitoridectomies/infibulations...Do you think these procedures fall under "proper treatment and respect of women"? Who should decide whether these antiquated procedures can be performed upon a person? Must the person herself decide at an age of consent, or is it ok for a father/mother/village to decide for her when she is 3, 4, 5 years old?

For those who don't know, clitoridectomy is the removal of the clitoris; infibulation is the removal of the clitoris and inner and outer labia. (Both procedures are intended to have the result of proving purity; both have the result of eliminating sexual pleasure for women.) This is often done without anesthesia, when a girl child is 3-5 years of age. Women kinfolk hold down the screaming, struggling girl as she is cut up. The remaining tissue is sutured/thorned together so that only one small opening is left for urine/menstrual blood. Subsequent to many of these procedures, women must be cut open for sex, childbirth. The procedure causes ghastly pain and horrific infections, not to mention abnormal gynecological states.

While some procedures have taken place in Christian areas (Egyptian Copts have performed clitorectomies, for example), these procedures overwhelmingly take place in Islamic societies. Clitoridectomies are widespread throughout the Middle East, northern and eastern Africa, and parts of southern Asia. Infibulation is common to the Horn of Africa (Eritrea, Somalia, etc) but also occurs in other areas where Islam is king.

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-23 10:05:34 AM|| 2004-08-23 10:05:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 Here is an Amnesty International link on the procedures for those who want more specific regional info:

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm9.htm

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-23 10:17:44 AM|| 2004-08-23 10:17:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 Gentle: First, I know what you're doing. You are a warrior for Islam, no? Second, I don't believe you are female. Third, unless you will, here and now, publicly denounce all of the activities of the Islamic Taliban against the Moslem women, children and men of Afghanistan, publicly denounce the Islamic practice of Female Genital Mutilation, publicly denounce the widely practiced phenomenon of "honor" killings, publicly denounce the terrorist killings in the US, UK, Spain, Pakistan, Indonesia, Palestine/Israel for starters, publicly denounce the brutal slave pratices prevalent in Islamic Saudi Arabia, publicly denounce the raping and boys and girls in Sudan by Moslems, and the destruction of Christian towns, and publicly denounce the plans for Islamic takeover of the West, no one at Rantburg will take you seriously. No one.

Since you won't denounce these things, I tell you to STOP trying to spread Islam by proselytizing on this site. We know that's what you're doing.

Finally, I also expect you will not respond to Howard's, jules, or Robert's points, or this post. You are a fake, and are anything but "gentle." So go back to your imam, and tell him that you did your part today to bring about a world-wide Islamic State--(not that you were at all successful, but you did try, so I don't think you'll be in too much trouble).

P.S. Howard UK: FGM does occur in the UK, and it's a growing problem. Thought you might want to know.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-08-23 11:26:44 AM|| 2004-08-23 11:26:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 Really? Will keep an eye on my clitty.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-23 11:34:46 AM|| 2004-08-23 11:34:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 No one has the authority to execute the law other than the officers who are in charge.

yep...the officers in charge sure do "execute" the law. as well as innocent people.

Posted by PlanetDan 2004-08-23 12:01:12 PM|| 2004-08-23 12:01:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 No one has the authority to execute the law other than the officers who are in charge.

Seeing as how everyone who is able to wind their turban tight enough to cut off circulation to the brain can qualify as "officers who are in charge," there's not that many excluded from ~~honor killing~~ murdering whomever they want to.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-23 12:34:49 PM|| 2004-08-23 12:34:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 It doesn't matter whether it's Islam or culture that cause these murders. Regardless of whether it existed before or after Mohammed came up with his book, it is still around today, and clearly in the intervening 1,400 years Islam has failed to banish it. Religion and culture, especially in the Middle East, are intertwined, and if it wasn't part of Islam at one time, it damn sure is now. Just like, as much as I hate to admit it, burning heretics at the stake was once part of Christianity, but isn't now.

You've never answered any of the questions regarding facts we've thrown at you, Gentle. At the most, you've asked for proof, then ignored our responses. Other times you just seem to slink away, and we spend the rest of the thread asking questions and making comments on the material that poke even more holes in the arguments you present. Islam is more concerned about telling us what it isn't than in showing us what it is - because as long as we're paying attention to those "scholars" who tell us it isn't a bloodthirsty cult we won't notice the killing and brutality and violations that are going on around us. Islam is demanding more rights, demanding to be accorded victim status, demanding to be recognized as its own separate entity - and devouring those who come under its sway.

Way I see it, there are two possibilities: Either Islam puts itself through a major overhaul, or there's gonna be an awful lot of fighting ahead. And I don't know which will win. But I won't hesitate to say what I see, and your Islamic sensibilities can go f**k themselves if you don't like what I say. Islam wants to control the world? There are a lot of people you're going to have to kill if you want to silence the questioning of your religion. I'm no soldier, and wouldn't make it in the military, but am willing to defend in any way I can a system that respects human rights, that grows and changes and evolves and makes peace with its past demons, and allows for free thought and criticism.

End of excessively long speech.

Posted by The Doctor 2004-08-23 1:19:22 PM|| 2004-08-23 1:19:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Since you won't denounce these things, I tell you to STOP trying to spread Islam by proselytizing on this site. We know that's what you're doing.

"Gentle" should be left alone do whatever it wants to do, as its proselytizing is more than countered by a lot of the articles posted and referenced to by this site. Judging from what comes out of the Middle East on just about a daily basis, one would be hard-pressed to actually believe that Islam is really a "Religion of Peace"â¢.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-23 3:13:00 PM|| 2004-08-23 3:13:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Poor little ditz. She'll never know what hit her when it happens.

Posted by tu3031 2004-08-23 9:27:39 PM|| 2004-08-23 9:27:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Needs s'more freaking COWBELL!

Strange how nothing seems to unite us more than our hatred and loathing of Islam, and perhaps its apologists.

/hitting the tip jar after payday

Posted by Asedwich 2004-08-23 10:20:26 PM|| 2004-08-23 10:20:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 whadya call Gentle with a black eye: a poor listener

whadya call Gentle with two black eyes: a fine muslim advocate

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-23 10:38:31 PM|| 2004-08-23 10:38:31 PM|| Front Page Top

13:28 Atomic Conspiracy
13:28 Atomic Conspiracy
13:29 Atomic Conspiracy
13:29 Atomic Conspiracy
03:41 dacau forever
03:34 dacau forever
04:21 dacau forever
21:35 Zenster
09:55 Anonymous6160
08:40 ed
08:05 GreatestJeneration
07:50 Aris Katsaris
05:07 True German Ally
03:41 Zenster
03:18 paracletes
02:27 True German Ally
02:17 .com
02:14 Super Hose
02:11 Zenster
01:47 Brewer
00:57 Super Hose
00:48 True German Ally
00:35 GreatestJeneration
00:32 .com