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2004-08-25 Home Front: Culture Wars
Foggy Bottom Promotes Mohammedan Histori-lies
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Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-25 3:16:46 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 A.C. that's not nice of you. Don't you know that we're supposed to be respectful towards all the rich cultures and diverse peoples throughout history??!! Except for the Europeans and their colonies. They were all murderous, slave trading ususrpers whose only achievements came with the help of people like the Moro navigator, without whom Columbus would never have even made it to the Azores, much less Hispaniola.

And what's this about a list of Columbus's crew?! You're telling me that this Muslim navigator is a myth? Well it's obviously true because I believe it.
Posted by John in Tokyo 2004-08-25 4:05:24 AM||   2004-08-25 4:05:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Hee hee. The Islamos obviously also invented logic.

Incidentally, the Greeks and Romans knew the size and distance of the Moon to a fair standard of accuracy, something many Islamos do not accept to this day.
One Hipparchus of Rhodes determined this in the second century BC. By measuring the angular size of the Earth's shadow on the Moon during eclipses, he determined their relative sizes. Knowing the circumference, and therefore the diameter, of the Earth from Eratosthenes, he was able to determine the Moon's actual diameter and, from its measured angular diameter, its distance.
His figures were within about 4% of currently accepted values. He tried to determine the distance to the Sun as well, but we now know that this was hopeless with the knowledge and instruments (mostly notched sticks) at his disposal.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-25 4:21:10 AM||   2004-08-25 4:21:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Lol! Man. America's institutions, from education to government, are overdue for a massive enema.

"Stand back, Joe - and button up your waders - she's gonna blow!"
Posted by .com 2004-08-25 4:21:21 AM||   2004-08-25 4:21:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 While we are on the subject, my nominee for the greatest feat of scientific deduction in history is Ole Christensen Rømer's reasonably accurate determination of the speed of light in 1676. What must it have been like to scratch away at the figures with a quill pen, by candlelight, with a primitive Galilean telescope in the corner, and arrive at the astonishing result, and know that it was true?
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-25 4:45:10 AM||   2004-08-25 4:45:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 It appears, in fact, that the Islamos and their shills cannot even invent their own lies.
A lot of this looks like recycled Afro-centrist propaganda to me.

I tried my hand once at a parody of Afro-centrist revisionism. I came up with a story about how the evil Scottish pirate James Watt had stolen the steam engine from the peaceful and dignified people of Dahomey, then used his diabolical Celtic magic to erase their memories of how to make and use the device.
It always amazed me that multi-cultists could speak of Europeans "stealing" an idea as though this were literally the same as stealing a stereo or a car, that is, that the original owner would be deprived of its use in the process.
I thought the Watt story was pretty funny, but it was a failure as parody since it was no more absurd than actual Afro-centrist propaganda.
I remember an Afro-centrist claiming that Eu-ROPE was called that because some group of wise ancient African rulers had insisted on putting a ROPE, a barrier of some kind, around it to keep its evil Cro-Magnon inhabitants from spilling out and contaminating the world. I shit you not.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-25 5:35:50 AM||   2004-08-25 5:35:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Ha! Just like a cold ice-cave person to steal the goodness and wisdom of the warm sun people. Evil!

When it comes to tickling people's favorite fancy - nothing is off limits. Even people who are, otherwise, sane, rational, scientific method, logical folks - will jump off the feel-good cliff, lol! All lies in jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. So simple - and simply boggling, heh.
Posted by .com 2004-08-25 7:18:20 AM||   2004-08-25 7:18:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Don't confuse me with facts. I am trying to steal warmth from the sun people but I keep running into this rope.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-25 7:34:24 AM||   2004-08-25 7:34:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 They are trying this on in Australia too. The residual cultural effects from 19th Century Pakistani camel herders- a mosque or two and a taste for chilis, is now billed as a Moslem origin for Aboriginal Australians. Whose origins are genuinely lost in the mist of time.
Posted by Grunter 2004-08-25 8:12:27 AM||   2004-08-25 8:12:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 One (more or less serious) question - I remember being taught that the Arabs did do a lot of pioneering early astronomy work, one reason why so many stars have Arabic names - I've always assumed there's at least some truth to that.

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-08-25 10:03:58 AM||   2004-08-25 10:03:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes Mike the arabs did a lot of astronomy.

However, virtually all the arab scientists of note were apostates.
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 10:20:56 AM||   2004-08-25 10:20:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 This reminds me of the lie that is often told that was the moslems alone who preserved the light of classical learning during western Europes dark ages. We are supposed to believe that we owe our entire civilization to them because they so generously brought us moral, scientific, and philosophical enlightenment through their great clasical scholars. BS

This of course completely disregards the fact that among Christian monks in the West the light of learning never died and the fact that the highly educated CHRISTIAN Byzantine empire existed until the 1500's. After the fall of Constantinople, guess who fled to the West? Hmmmm? Greek scholars perhaps? Funny how Europe began to rise at exactly the same time, isn't it?

There is ample evidence on the other hand that all of the so-called great islamic achievments can be easily attributed to guess who, the greeks again but also the Hindus of India, the Persians and the literate Christian Assyrians who were the original inhabitants of todays Iraq. Some people would like to have us believe that such things as the concept of zero were absolutely unheard of before moslems discovered them. BS. As if islam existed in this pure vaccum where no other influence was available when in fact there was an amazing confluence of ancient civilizations in the area. Want to talk about stealing ideas you need look no further than the muslims who seem to have stolen every good idea from the people's they attacked and subjugated.

Yet were entirely unable to surpass those acheivements. Take, for instance, St Sophia in Istanbul compared with the mosque built close to it in an attempt to surpass it. Even in its criminally neglected state, the church is still quite possibly the most ethereal structure in existence, while the mosque is merely big and pretty. All over the moslem world we find that, hey moslems in the past were smart enough to learn from the greats that came before them, and also that they had some talented people like the guy who designed the Taj Mahal. But we would be very hard pressed to find any evidence of the kind of epoch making brilliance evidenced by the Greeks.

I always wonder if there wasn't some cultural memory present in the West that knew what to do with the Greek treasures that moslems just didn't have. While they were able to appreciate it, they were not able to substantially expand on it. But once that heritage was back in the hands of its true heirs (Through Rome and the Church) the expansion of that knowledge was positively explosive.
Posted by peggy  2004-08-25 10:21:17 AM||   2004-08-25 10:21:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Let's not confuse "arabs" with Moslems.

Long before Islam saw the light of day in the seventh century A.D. there were arabs, and Persians (you remember the Three Wise Men who followed a STAR...they were Zorasterians). Constellations having arab names is a stretch to say they're Islamic in origin.

Arabs (many of them Christian) and Phoneicians (revered many of the Greek Gods) sailed throughout the Med, Indian Ocean and into the Atlantic and Pacific.

Don't get me wrong, while I'm all for giving the followers of Islam their due, let's not buy into this latter-day Do Do!
Posted by RN  2004-08-25 10:42:37 AM||   2004-08-25 10:42:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 "Just like a cold ice-cave person to steal the goodness and wisdom of the warm sun people."

-Like the morlocks & the elloi? I guess I'm just an evil morlock........bwhahaha.
Posted by Jarhead 2004-08-25 11:16:18 AM||   2004-08-25 11:16:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 RN,

You make a good point about not equating Arab with islam. We shouldn't forget that for the entire period of Islamic acheivement, there were millions of Christians living along side them. I'm talking substantial numbers and without a doubt more than enough to have a substantial impact. Is easy to think of the early islamic period as monolithically islamic but the popualtions of each faith were damn near equal for a good period of time before the numbers of Christians began dwindling due to outrageously discriminatory polices towards them which made converting to islam very attractive to many of them. It is a mistake that is often made to think that the Middle East became almost 100% islamic instantaneously as if someone just flipped a switch.

It is also telling that as Muslim numbers increased and Christian numbers decreased, so also did islamic civilization, until nowadays the Middle East is almost 100% islamic but it is also one of the most hopeless and barbaric regions in the whole world. Once the conquered cultures were entirely oppressed and reduced to negligible numbers, the record of islamic acheivement began to dry up. Funny that, isnt it?

Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Christians are somehow intellectually superior to moslems, some kind of master race BS. But Christianity, like many other religions, created a successful and sustainable climate for human acheivement which in its case has lasted 2000 yrs. Islam could only borrow, use, and appreciate that kind of acheivement but it is without an engine of its own to sustain such a climate. It actually works against such acheivement wherever it is entirely dominant. Christianity also had some unique features which allowed for the kind of climate where modern scientific enquiry could flourish (though not without hiccups). Once the relatively liberal Christian culture began to disappear from the East and arabs had nothing but islam to work with, the result was stagnation.

islam is quite frankly alone among the religions in that it works against human achievement to a remarkable degree. Having looked long and hard at the evidence, I think that Christianity, while also admittedly flawed, has been the most conducive. I attribute this to several features including a love of representative art, and the separation of church and secular life combined with the vigor and moral clarity that comes from Hebrew monotheism. It has made a big difference for the church to stand at the side of society encouraging it and serving as a check on it, rather than a situation where religion is hopelessly inseparable from all aspects of life.
Posted by peggy  2004-08-25 11:38:00 AM||   2004-08-25 11:38:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 peggy - well said.
Posted by B 2004-08-25 11:44:27 AM||   2004-08-25 11:44:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Excellent discourse, Peggy.

VDH, in the Lepanto chapter of Carnage and Culture, points out how dependent the Ottoman Empire's military was dependent on raiding Christian families of recruits and forcibly converting them to Islam.
Posted by Ptah  2004-08-25 12:22:15 PM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2004-08-25 12:22:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Come on, folks. The Irish saved civilization. Up until the time the Brits took over the country. Then everything went to hell.
Posted by DLS 2004-08-25 12:38:09 PM||   2004-08-25 12:38:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Peggy, "I am not saying that Christians are somehow intellectually superior to Muslims." OK I will say it "we are!" Christianity went through its darks ages where they shunned technology, advances in medicine, and made up new ways to torture (or convert) non believers. We (most western nations are Christian/Judeo) have moved beyond that. Some sects of Islam are stuck in the middle ages and don’t want to come out culturally. The only successful example of Islam melding with the 21st century would be Turkey and lets face it they are not an economic powerhouse yet. So yes we are richer, smarter, more advanced and yes better than all Muslim nations. To claim that we are equals in any measure of a society would be disingenuous. Not bragging or trying to degrade them, it simply a statement of fact. And who friggin cares who named the Moon, Mars, or Jupiter? What counts is who is exploring them today!
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2004-08-25 12:45:59 PM||   2004-08-25 12:45:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Hey Sarge,

I wasn't trying to be disingenuous. I was trying to make a distinction between Arab people's raw intelligence and the results of islam. I don't believe that we are any smarter. Actually that is a fact. We're not any smarter. We are only more fortunate to have a culture that best encourages human acheivement. Our relative levels of intelligence have nothing to do with the argument. Given the same degree of intelligence and talent, the differences in outcome between ours and islamic culture is cultural and religious. I think that everyone here agrees on that.

Turkey is not a successful example of islam in the modern world. islam cannot be successfully practiced in the world without amending it in ways not natural to it. In the case of Turkey, Attaturk enforced the total secularization of public institutions which is absolutely contrary to islamic teaching. From that point Turkey began to succeed. In other cases of what seems like success, for instance, Indonesia, the fact is that islam is more a cultural identification which has been mixed with other native traditions and beliefs. So it developed into a more moderate form which is largely responsible for whatever success that country sees today.

Pure islam is not able to succeed unless it grafts itself onto another culture until that culture dies. When the host culture is dead, all significant acheivement ends also.
Posted by peggy  2004-08-25 2:10:17 PM||   2004-08-25 2:10:17 PM|| Front Page Top

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