Article

2004-10-31 Home Front: Tech

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-31 6:17:02 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Can they direct this thing toward Michael Moore?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-31 6:54:19 AM|| 2004-10-31 6:54:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Hah! - they only *said* it wouldn't be ready until 2010! ;)

Posted by Tony (UK) 2004-10-31 8:08:58 AM|| 2004-10-31 8:08:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 This sounds largish, big even, perhaps even a war winner at some point.

Posted by Shipman 2004-10-31 10:44:29 AM|| 2004-10-31 10:44:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 It's for satellites, Mrs. D, not blimps.

Posted by Tom 2004-10-31 10:46:23 AM|| 2004-10-31 10:46:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 And ours are jam-proof..... right?

Unknown AF general looking at U-2 photos during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

"Morons, they're wingtip to wingtip"

UnKnown Photo Analyst (probably OP)
"General, that's Homestead"

Posted by Shipman 2004-10-31 10:50:41 AM|| 2004-10-31 10:50:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 "And the mind control satellites, which we don't have and aren't working on, won't be ready till at least 2073."

Posted by Laurence of the Rats 2004-10-31 11:35:48 AM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2004-10-31 11:35:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I'd much rather see our military devote itself to jamming (read: reduce to smoldering ashes) all of al Jazeera's broadcast and transmission facilities.

Pursuit of satellite jamming capabilities is a two-edged sword. All such "Space Denial" strategies promise a mixed bag of results. Recent discussions on Capitol Hill and in the Pentagon of denying all LEO (Low Earth Orbit) access to enemies and allies alike could only have enraged our international comrades and increased our enemies' emphasis on aerospace development. Witness the nascent Chinese and Japanese space programs.

A good comparison is our nuclear weapons program. Through nonproliferation treaties and the like we have sought to suppress the distribution of nuclear materials and technology. Such a policy is only of use if it is actively enforced. Any lapse in vigorous prosecution can yield disastrous results. Witness North Korea. By imposing demands for nuclear build-down without asserting the military muscle to guarantee it, the opposite results were obtained. America's determination to prohibit nuclear access instead encouraged North Korea to acquire nuclear capability in the most speedy fashion possible.

So it is with satellite jamming technology. LEO vehicles now represent a crucial asset to the precise and advantageous deployment of America's military might. Reliance upon space based capabilities is not a new thing either. During the Cold War, such dependency resulted in a period of increased danger, rather than any cessation of threat. Both sides had become nigh well addicted to orbital monitoring of ICBM launch sites as part of a "launch on warning" school of nuclear strategy.

Had any accidental or third party intervention caused the sudden or catastrophic loss of satellite imaging and detection, America (or the Soviet Union) would almost have been compelled to authorize a massive ICBM launch, solely on the basis of "use 'em or lose 'em" strategy. More recent development of phased array "over-the-horizon" radar and other collateral assets has decreased our dependency upon satellite monitoring, but the advent of GPS and other space based communications technology has not served to decrease the key role these orbital vehicles play in our military's arsenal.

Just as slack enforcement of nonproliferation policy may have exacerbated rogue nation pursuit of nuclear capability, this new capability for jamming of satellite assets may encourage both friend and foe alike to obtain similar countermeasures. America cannot exclusively rely upon its technological supremacy as an antidote to any vulnerability. The threat of nuclear terrorism should stand as adequate proof of this.

Nearly every essential technology routinely undergoes downward cost scaling that eventually brings the same assets into the hands of those who could not have ever developed such capabilities on their own. While denial of strategic space based military components represents a substantial increase in advantage, we have also unlocked another Pandora's box of spiraling "measures-and-countermeasures." This is one capability that might have been better not to tout quite so loudly. Any competent opponent can only take this as the starting gun for parallel development programs.

Posted by Zenster 2004-10-31 11:39:54 AM|| 2004-10-31 11:39:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Z, what LEO assets are you refering to? Iridium? Most mil sats are at higher altitude.

Posted by V is for Victory 2004-10-31 2:27:10 PM|| 2004-10-31 2:27:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 V, some of our IMINT (Image Intelligence) birds use low orbits. They are relatively mission critical to our military.

When detailed reports of geographical areas, military installations and activities, troop positions, or other picture-based intelligence are required, policy-makers and analysts turn to data provided by IMINT (Image Intelligence) satellites. Operating in low, near-polar orbits at an altitude of between 500 and 3,000 kilometers, and maintaining the same orbit around the Earth, they make about 14 revolutions per day. IMINT satellites use either photo-optic, electro-optic infrared, or radar technology to scan a new swath of ground with each orbit.

Posted by Zenster 2004-10-31 2:56:35 PM|| 2004-10-31 2:56:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 This is in response to EU Galileo Project. Galileo is meant to be alternative to US GPS system,w/some 30 satellites and a 2008 date. The system while being promoted as commercial will have significant military uses and China has recently bought in. A recent conference between US and EU ended w/US asking if EU would prevent system being used against US military. EU said no,whereupon USAF General attending conference announced in event Galileo was used against US forces,US would try to jam first,and if that failed,would attempt to destroy satellites. This announcement of US jamming ability may be attempt to get Galileo canceled-if US will jam,why spend money on system that won't work.

Posted by Stephen 2004-10-31 4:37:53 PM|| 2004-10-31 4:37:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Ahhh dont worry about those smelly unshaved european trash

Posted by borgboy 2004-10-31 4:58:54 PM|| 2004-10-31 4:58:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I am by no means an expert on this topic, but it would appear to me that spoofing the signal would be more productive than jammimg. With jammimg you know when it aint working whereas with spoofing you are never sure if it is working or not.

Posted by phil_b 2004-10-31 6:47:34 PM|| 2004-10-31 6:47:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 phil, I hope the correct answer is all of the above and some you haven't thought of. We have probably got enough experience with anomalous performance in our own to psych theirs out.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-31 6:51:56 PM|| 2004-10-31 6:51:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 and another phoney borboy post...

Posted by .com 2004-10-31 7:04:58 PM|| 2004-10-31 7:04:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Fallujah stand-off enters 'final phase'

The stand-off between the interim Iraqi Government and insurgents in the rebel city of Fallujah has entered its "final phase," Iraq's interim prime minister Iyad Allawi has said, warning of imminent military action.

The Prime Minister laid out three conditions that would spare Fallujah a military showdown, insisting that the Government was not negotiating or bargaining with any party over its legitimate right to assert its authority in the flashpoint city.

"We have entered the final phase to solve the Fallujah problem," Mr Allawi told reporters.

"If we cannot solve it peacefully, I have no choice but to take military action. I will do so with a heavy heart."

Mr Allawi said he met on Saturday night with religious and tribal leaders from the Sunni Muslim insurgency bastions of Fallujah and Ramadi, west of Baghdad, and from the northern city of Mosul.

He said all wanted the Government to assert its authority in these hot spots.

"Terrorists have taken the people of Fallujah hostage and we are determined to eliminate this terror centre," he said.

The Prime Minister's conditions include the exit of foreign fighters and insurgents, the hand over of heavy and medium-sized weapons and allowing the Government to begin the reconstruction process in these cities.

"The people of Fallujah can hand over the foreign fighters and insurgents, kick them out or allow Iraqi forces to go in and do the job," said Mr Allawi flanked by Kassim Daoud, his national security adviser.

Mr Allawi became visibly upset when pressed about the status of negotiations between a Government-backed group from the country's interim Parliament and delegates from Fallujah.

"Your question is wrong, there are no negotiations with Fallujah. Fallujah is part of Iraq and we are working with the people of Fallujah and other nationalists all over Iraq to rid them of the killers," snapped Mr Allawi.

"We cannot stand by while killers slaughter innocent Iraqis."

The talks between national council members and Fallujah community leaders appear to be a last ditch effort to avert a military showdown.

"We will put our hand in their hand if they really have the influence to solve the problem peacefully," Mr Allawi said.

"But the window is closing for a peaceful settlement."

Previous direct talks between Government ministers and Fallujah delegates collapsed in mid-October after Mr Allawi issued a warning to the city to hand over suspected Al Qaeda leader in Iraq Abu Musab al-Zarqawi or face an assault.

"The Iraqi Government is still holding the olive branch ... but there will be no dialogue with Zarqawi, [Osama] bin Laden and former regime loyalists."

United States troops have encircled Fallujah since October 14 and the military has repeatedly launched air strikes and some limited ground incursions into the troubled city.

Both the Iraqi and US Governments say Fallujah is in the grip of operatives loyal to Jordanian-born Zarqawi, who has a $US25 million bounty for his killing or capture.

Zarqawi is accused of some of the worst attacks in the violence-plagued country over the past few months.

Mr Allawi said some of the deadliest recent attacks in Iraq were plotted and carried out by militants from Fallujah, including the execution one week ago of 49 unarmed army recruits and three of their drivers in eastern Iraq.

He softened remarks made on Tuesday blaming the killings on "gross negligence" by US-led forces and promised to unveil shortly the results of a Government investigation.

"We are facing a ruthless enemy bent on killing us," warned Mr Allawi.

Posted by Spineshank 2004-10-31 8:04:08 PM|| 2004-10-31 8:04:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Of course if you can spoof satellite transmissions you certainly wouldn't want to tell anyone.

OTOH saying you can when you can't has advantages too....

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-10-31 8:06:57 PM|| 2004-10-31 8:06:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Ship - much before my time. I didn't come on board until 1966. I did have a similar experience with a former US Senator once, though, over the Laotian village of Tchepone. Luckily I had a commander that had the same low opinion of said senator, and I kept my stripes! 8^)

I'll keep the rest of my comments about this thread to myself, just as I'm sure Old Spook and Fred are restraining themselves. None of us wants a long "vacation" in Kansas... If anyone wants to see one person's opinion of US capabilities, read "Deep Black" by William Burrows. He throws up a lot of stuff, and some of it might even be true.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-10-31 10:10:09 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-10-31 10:10:09 PM|| Front Page Top

00:18 Ulomoper Craising7175
00:24 Chereling Jeling6799
11:00 Joe
14:44 Anonymous
17:03 Sentinel
23:54 A Game 2 Play
23:50 Urako
23:47 TROLL
23:43 Bomb-a-rama
23:36 Pre-Emptive Strikes
23:34 Spine.shank
23:26 Spineshank
23:25 Spineshank
23:24 Spineshank
23:22 Spineshank
23:18 Rafael
22:56 Spineshank
22:55 RWV
22:55 Bomb-a-rama
22:53 OldSpook
22:51 Allah
22:46 Spineshank
22:43 Spineshank
22:42 Spineshank