Article

2005-02-16 Syria-Lebanon-Iran

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Posted by 2005-02-16 08:29|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 hmmmm. I guess Kurdistan does stretch across both

Posted by Frank G 2005-02-16 9:33:10 AM|| 2005-02-16 9:33:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 All they need to do is get Kimmie to buy in and they'll truly be an Axis of Evil.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-02-16 10:37:49 AM|| 2005-02-16 10:37:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 No...they're coordinating an "anti-drone" defense system. ;)

Posted by Desert Blondie 2005-02-16 10:47:35 AM|| [http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2005-02-16 10:47:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Does this mean that if we attack one, the other gets the whole "lake of fire" treatment?

Posted by BA 2005-02-16 10:56:34 AM|| 2005-02-16 10:56:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Seems to me that provoking Kurdish uprisings in both nations might be a nice response. I also wouldn't mind seeing us support the Arab Shia corner of Iran that borders Iraq (yeah this could cause problems with Saudi Arabia but that's a feature not a bug).

Two can play at the destabalization game.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-02-16 11:05:05 AM|| [http://rjschwarz] 2005-02-16 11:05:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Two can play at the destabalization game. It would be interesting to know whats going on behind the scenes here.

I don't know, maybe this is stupid, but I secretly suspect that the Turks are and have always been a part of this "common front". Erdogan is a treacherous little bastard. With the saber rattling that the Turks have been doing lately, I can't help but wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 11:22:22 AM|| 2005-02-16 11:22:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 and speaking of this front, while I'm in the paranoid musing-mode...it bothers me that our good friend, Russia, is openly providing arms to Syria and helping Iran get nukes. It certainly makes you wonder why.

I don't remember what Pukin's relationship was to Erdogan and I don't remember how influential Russia was or was not in getting the Turks to stab us in the back at the start of the Iraqi war..... but given those facts as well as Turkey's current sabre rattling, you have to look at a map and wonder what on earth is going through Russia's head when they brazenly supplie arms to Syria and help Iran get nukes.

It just seems too wierd that Putin isn't more concerned with his own Islamist Problem, than he is in inflaming the region by providing arms to two contries on either side of Iraq. Especially since he'd have to be brain dead not to realize that eventually these same arms will eventually be turned on his own infidel country as the push for the caliphate moves forward.

Very strange.

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 11:49:19 AM|| 2005-02-16 11:49:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Putin is not our friend and the sooner we learn that the better off we will be.

Posted by DAJ 2005-02-16 11:52:23 AM|| 2005-02-16 11:52:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Amen, DAJ.

Posted by .com 2005-02-16 11:58:00 AM|| 2005-02-16 11:58:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I should have used sarcasm notes ;-) I don't think Putin is our friend, but with talk of a "new front" by two countries, both receiving major arms assistance from Russia is causing me to wonder just how proactive of a enemy he really is and wonder about Turkey.

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 12:03:45 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:03:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Regards Putty, I can't recall a single instance of cooperation or collaboration since the Iraq buildup was completed and it was time to lead, follow, or get out of the way. He chose None of the Above. Someone (not our RB 'someone', heh) posted a short un-elaborated comment a few days ago that Putty wasn't running Russia -that he was a puppet. Of course, I found that interesting, but have seen nothing further to back it up or explain who is supposedly running Russia. Putty's the Idol, so I doubt the proposition without something substantive.

Regards Turkey, they have misstepped at every opportunity from the same timeframe forward. The last time we had cordial dealings with them, IMHO, was when (pre-Iraq War) they requested Patriot batteries within NATO, France vetoed the request, and we did it anyway via a different NATO committee that France does not sit on.

Both are, by their actions, adversaries. Neither has the means to do anything but wave their arms and hinder / veto diplomatic efforts.

Posted by .com 2005-02-16 12:16:35 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:16:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I was just googling around and found this, which deepens my suspicions that this "new front" which includes Syria and Iran could be connected by our good friends /sarcasm/ the Turks.

With Russia openly providing arms to Syria and nukes to Iran, we should at least be wondering what's going on in Turkey's mind.

The January 12 [2005] statement went on to say that Turkeyâs "economic ties with Russia are ripe for growth," adding that Ankara expected "an influx of Russian capital." Russian President Vladimir Putin reciprocated the enthusiasm expressed by Turkish leaders. Putin met with Erdogan at least four times during the three-day visit, including a private dinner at the presidential residence outside Moscow.

Only sketchy details have emerged on trade talks conducted during the visit. Turkish officials let it be known in advance that they would seek a discount on the price of Russian natural gas supplies. Russia currently provides about two-thirds of Turkeyâs natural gas needs.

snip..talk of mutually beneficial business deals re: electricity and gas.

In addition to energy, Turkish and Russian officials confirmed that talked about developing military-technological ties. They did not go into specifics, and no agreements were announced.
link

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 12:17:49 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:17:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Lol, 2b! The first thing that came to mind is how Russia's out looking for investment capital, always desperate for hard currency - then screwing over those firms who play fair in the bidding process, of course - so why would Turkey think Russia had anything but scraps to invest in them?

Must be a matter of perspective. I've got a dime. Here's a nickel.

Posted by .com 2005-02-16 12:22:17 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:22:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 two tens for a five?

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 12:25:06 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:25:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Normally, a dime each, but for you a special offer: 2 for a quarter! Don't miss out!

Posted by .com 2005-02-16 12:26:18 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:26:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 It was lex who'd claimed that Putin was a puppet, I believe. On my part I don't find it particularly interesting whether Putin leads the FSB regime or is a puppet thereof, as long as we recognize the entirety of said regime to be as much of an enemy as the Soviet Union was, even if reduced in strength since those times.

2b, I think that linking Turkey to Syria and Iran via the Russian connection is a really weak proposition, since Russia has connections and influence throughout the world. Sure, the Russia-Turkey connection is worrisome, in the way that it's definitely worrisome when Schroeder or Karamanlis or whoever is seen licking Putin's fingers.

But that doesn't make Turkey a link in the Syria-Iran axis, any more than it would make Venezuela a link of that particular axis either, because Russia is cooperating with it as well.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-16 12:32:31 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:32:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Do not trust the Russian Bear. What did Putin do after Beslan? Consolidate his grip on the Russian people? Yes. Revenge the deaths of innocent children? No. Post Beslan, did Putin cut arms deals with avowed enemies of the USA (Syria and Iran)? Yes. Has Russia assisted the USA in Iraq? No. Has Russia assisted the USA in the war against Islamofascism? Except for token logistical assistance in Afganistan(where they expected we'd get our ass kicked similar to theirs), no. Does Russia desire to see democracy spread in their sphere of influence (Ukraine)? No. Come on George, wake up.

Posted by Mark Z. 2005-02-16 12:32:57 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:32:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 I think that linking Turkey to Syria and Iran via the Russian connection is a really weak proposition, since Russia has connections and influence throughout the world.

It depends on what Putin's primary goal is. If it is to frustrate the US or "counter its influence in the world", Turkey is a beaut of a candidate to head the list. Russia has been acting really squirrely since Beslan, lashing out at the US when what happened there should make Russia move closer to the US.

What are Russia's primary motives this time? Money always, but what else?

Posted by Jules 187 2005-02-16 12:44:04 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:44:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Otari told reporters: "This meeting, which takes place at this sensitive time, is important, especially because Syria and Iran face several challenges and it is necessary to build a common front."

I agree it's highly speculative and possibly even paranoid, but then again...if you take literally what he is saying, they want a common front.

Russia is providing both Syria and Iran with arms and is talking to Turkey about developing military and technological ties as well as setting up undisclosed gas/oil deals that may (or may not) be indicative of back-room deals similar to deals that Russia made with Saddam.

I'm not saying that is what's happening, I'm just saying, that with Iran and Syria talking about a "common front" (even if metaphorically) it would be foolish to just look away and assume all is well here - given Russia's odd willingness to arm Syria; assist Iran's nuclear ambitions; work out major energy contracts while developing military-technological ties with Kurd/American-hating, saber-rattling Turkey.

You can't just look away from that and hope it's not true.

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 12:59:02 PM|| 2005-02-16 12:59:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 George isn't asleep, there's only just so much you can take on, and I mean head on, at once. Russia has clarified its intentions since the day he lied to W's face. They will get lip service until a solution to Putty presents itself.

Just as with Germany, the real problem isn't with the Russian people - it's the "leadership", a term used loosely regards Shroeder, of course. ;-)

Posted by .com 2005-02-16 1:00:02 PM|| 2005-02-16 1:00:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I don't see the quid pro quo for Russia in the Turkey deal. They have to discount the price of their gas in return for what??? Arms sales??? Not likely. Turkey has a strong initiative to have local manufacturing/content on any major weapons deal. They want technology transfer so they can further build their domestic defense industry (which will then be used for export). Russia would be creating their own competition.

Posted by Remoteman 2005-02-16 1:02:18 PM|| 2005-02-16 1:02:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Remoteman, I don't know. Maybe the Turks think they can get oil fields in Mosul and Kirkuk. It's all wild speculation.

But I think Jules makes a good point. Russia has been acting really squirrely since Beslan, lashing out at the US when what happened there should make Russia move closer to the US.

Maybe it's time should start to ask why Russia's acting so weird. .Com's right, it's not like GW isn't aware of the Russian threat, but it just seems to me like it is becoming MUCH more brazen in the last few weeks.

Posted by 2b 2005-02-16 1:11:34 PM|| 2005-02-16 1:11:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 You could be right about the oil fields in Mosul and Kirkuk. Turkey would love to "annex" that property.

Posted by DAJ 2005-02-16 1:14:10 PM|| 2005-02-16 1:14:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 adding that Ankara expected "an influx of Russian capital."

and note that it's Ankara that is expecting the money influx rather than Russia.

Posted by anon 2005-02-16 1:25:20 PM|| 2005-02-16 1:25:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Turkey (as well as the Ottoman Empire) has never been an ally of the West in MAJOR purpose and painful ACTION. (NATO was just a trade: shield them from the Communists, allow us to shield the Mediterranean.)

Russia lost its empire 15 years ago and it is NOT a Western country.

Both see themselves as threatened by the individualist, liberty-loving, prosperous West. Neither is friendly, let alone an ally. In the context of WW IV, we have to take their inimical behaviour extremely seriously.

Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2005-02-16 1:27:48 PM|| [http://radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentEvents/] 2005-02-16 1:27:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 The folks in Central Asia are of Turkic decent. A closer Turkey/Russia alliance would be beneficial for both nations as Turkey may be able to counter the wahabbi influence there better than anyone else.

Iran and Syria are simply formalizing what's been going on between them for decades. Things have gotten closer since they've started interfering in Iraq without much of a response. I'm not sure Turkey has anything to do with any of that, although they could end the bullshit if they actually did get involved.

I think the folks in the region should claim Syria is the new Independent Kurdish state and arm the Kurds in Turkey/Iraq/Iran and point them towards Syria (provide air support if necessary). Might solve a lot of problems in one swoop.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-02-16 1:42:45 PM|| [http://rjschwarz] 2005-02-16 1:42:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 I dont think of Putin as particularly our friend, but I do think hes a man of caution, and while he will fish in troubled waters, hes certainly not going to stake anything important on Syria and Iran.

Turkey, AFAICT, is really, seriously, worried about the Kurds. I may not like their position (and I dont) but its a tangible, negotiable one, and is really in a different class than Syria or Iran. In fact I think in recent years theyve felt more threatened by Iran than Iraq, and thats one reason they were not enthusiastic about Iraq. (yes, I know about the long term strat, but I think Turkey is more concerned with the short term)

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-16 1:45:47 PM|| 2005-02-16 1:45:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 I don't see the quid pro quo for Russia in the Turkey deal.

Influence.

They see Turkey moving AWAY from the US, TOWARDS France, and so they jump in with a little sugar. If they timed it right, they can "divide" Turkey with France and neutralize it as a US base.

Sure, neither France, Russia, nor Turkey win, but the US "loses". All three see that as a net gain.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2005-02-16 1:53:31 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-02-16 1:53:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Sure, neither France, Russia, nor Turkey win, but the US "loses".

I dunno, but it seems to me that after the northern front affair, there isn't really all that much to lose. As of now, we could strike a deal with the Kurds, move everything out of the Incirlik facility into a new base in Kurdish territory, and....

"How do you like me now, bitch?"

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-02-16 2:28:25 PM|| 2005-02-16 2:28:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 I like the way you think!!!

Posted by DAJ 2005-02-16 2:31:22 PM|| 2005-02-16 2:31:22 PM|| Front Page Top

14:02 Crerert Ebbeting3481
09:14 1233JEFF
08:49 1233JEFF
08:38 1233JEFF
23:59 Bomb-a-rama
23:54 phil_b
23:46 gromky
23:43 .com
23:39 phil_b
23:38 .com
23:37 Frank G
23:35 Frank G
23:30 Frank G
23:25 .com
23:24 Frank G
23:18 phil_b
23:13 Chase Unineger3873 aka Jarhead
23:02 Robert Crawford
23:01 Chase Unineger3873 aka Jarhead
22:59 Chase Unineger3873 aka Jarhead
22:54 .com
22:43 Desert Blondie
22:41 Chase Unineger3873 aka Jarhead
22:40 IToldYouSo