Article

2005-11-02 Iraq

'Fiddy-Cal' Becomes Weapon of Choice in Iraq

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Posted by Steve 2005-11-02 10:38|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The .50 cal cartridge was originally invented by the Germans in World War I in an effort to make an anti-tank rifle. It was just a stepped-up version of their Mauser carbine round.

Later, Browning, who was looking for a round to use in an anti-aircraft gun, discovered that while it wasn't the best for *that* use, it was superb in a heavy machine gun role.

Ironically, the army is trying to replace the .50 cal with a newer, higher-tech version. Pfui. Don't fix what ain't broke.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-11-02 11:17|| 2005-11-02 11:17|| Front Page Top

#2 Ma Deuce has always been a good mama for the grunt. Always will be (except for the guy carrying the tripod and ammo if you dismount).

Posted by Oldspook 2005-11-02 12:04|| 2005-11-02 12:04|| Front Page Top

#3 Don't fix what ain't broke
Yeah, like what was functionally wrong with the .45cal? Oh, that's right, it wasn't NATO standard. That certainly worked out didn't it?

Posted by Omomoque Crereter5428 2005-11-02 12:10|| 2005-11-02 12:10|| Front Page Top

#4 Some things just don't need a frigging 'transformation.'

Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-02 12:14|| 2005-11-02 12:14|| Front Page Top

#5 the conversion to 9mm came at the insistance of a senator who just happened to have a certain arms plant in his district. don't blame that one on the generals - they fought the conversion a long time.

re: replacing the .50 calibre, it isn't going anywhere anytime soon - it's one of the two non-line of sight cannons on the future combat system manned ground vehicles. The gun will probably be upgraded tho.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-02 12:20|| 2005-11-02 12:20|| Front Page Top

#6 You got a source for .50 cal being a German round? Sounds odd that they would use English measures. I have held a live .55 cal WWI antitank rifle round (around .60 cal was the limit a man could fire without the recoil breaking his shoulder) and it was a lot heavier than a .50 cal round. The bullet may have been made of Tungsten. Whatever it was, it was heavy. Also, the .50 cal was the most produced machine gun in WWII (aircraft) and was the favorite weapon to mount on vehicles (esp. armored cars).

Has anyone heard anything about the performance of the XM-312 .50 machine gun? Half the weight, half the rate of fire, and supposedly a lot more cost. Is 230 rounds/minute to slow?

Posted by ed 2005-11-02 12:30|| 2005-11-02 12:30|| Front Page Top

#7 Browning designed both the first .50 calibre machine gun that I'm aware of, in 1910, and the M-2. I don't know if the Germans had anything else in that calibre in WWI.

WWII German Field Marshal Herman GÃ¶ring: "If the German Air Force had had the Browning .50-caliber, the Battle of Britain would have turned out differently."

Posted by lotp 2005-11-02 12:43|| 2005-11-02 12:43|| Front Page Top

#8 Actually, the "fiddy-cal" is not being replaced, but instead the Army seems to be deciding to go for systems interchangable from .50-cal (12.7x99) and 25mm. The Army's redesignated the famous semiauto Barrett M82 as the M107 (Wikipedia cites a bureaucratic technicality) but Barrett's also come up with the XM109, basically a rechambering in 25x59mm -- and the XM307 (25mm) and XM312 (.50-cal) are apparently the next-gen.

Then again, apparently the Marine Corps is looking at a M3M (by FN of P90 fame) as a M2 replacement.

Posted by Edward Yee 2005-11-02 13:30|| http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]">[http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2005-11-02 13:30|| Front Page Top

#9 WWII German Field Marshal Herman GÃ¶ring: "If the German Air Force had had the Browning .50-caliber, the Battle of Britain would have turned out differently."

Actually the ones who had a firepower problem were the British not the Germans as Spitfires and Hurricanes were armed only with 30 cal MGs and their bullets while adequate against fighters, either failed to penetrate bomber armor or didn't do enough damage on those large targets. It was not unusual for a fighter to exhaust its ammo on a bomber without being able to bring it down.

Also later in the war the British found that American 50 cal MGs like in the Mustang was nice but that 20 mm cannon like in the Tempest on in the Spitfire Mk IX was a LOT better.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-11-02 17:11|| 2005-11-02 17:11|| Front Page Top

#10 Germans found out quick that 6 .50 cal guns can ruin any airman's day.
We loved the maduce in the Army. It could do tons of damage to light skinned stuff. Anything with less than an inch of steel between it and and us was gonna have a real bad day.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-11-02 17:37|| 2005-11-02 17:37|| Front Page Top

#11 ed: I read that a long time ago, and the best reference I can give you was that it was an Ian Hogg book.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-11-02 18:57|| 2005-11-02 18:57|| Front Page Top

#12 I love the fact that they are dealing with 60year old tech, and it is still useful! I did a bit for TDB about ancient (read WWII) technology that was still in daily use in the military, and I got an earful of comments, with other veterans posting places, items and examples. I'll do a serious search later, and post a link.
My daughter, the Marine has always sworn that the field comm gear her unit had in Japan was Korean War vintage... if not WWII. Think on that, people--- troops are using stuff that their grandfathers were using, and getting the job done with it!

Posted by Sgt. Mom">Sgt. Mom 2005-11-02 20:51|| www.sgtstryker.com]">[www.sgtstryker.com] 2005-11-02 20:51|| Front Page Top

#13 Ah, .50 cal... nice for stopping small boats. Not as effective as a 25mm, but the installation is much easier (don't need a source of electric power).

Posted by Pappy 2005-11-02 20:58|| 2005-11-02 20:58|| Front Page Top

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