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2005-11-06 Europe
Steyn: Wake up, Europe, you've a war on your hands
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Posted by .com 2005-11-06 05:34|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I cannot believe they have not got the army out yet and it's day 10. DAY TEN.

Were I a french citizen, I'd be getting together a vigilante militia and patrolling the neighbourhood streets by now, armed with rocks, knives, guns, chainsaw, car: any improvised weapons we had.

We would beat rioters on sight.

We would be killing
Posted by anon1 2005-11-06 09:42||   2005-11-06 09:42|| Front Page Top

#2 It is interesting to try and guess what the threshold is for vigilantism. It is not obvious, it is gradual. The vigilanties first begin by just trying to protect themselves. Call this the "block watch" phase.

If that fails, and the offenders continue their offenses, then the vigilantes try to force the offenders just to stop offending. This is more like "civilian policing", but stops short of action. It includes things like passing out leaflets, and serious protests to the authorities.

The third phase is when the vigilantes have had enough, and try to kick the offenders out of their area. The "ride them out of town on a rail" phase. En masse, I guess this could be called the "ethnic cleansing" phase.

Finally, the fourth phase is to kill the offenders. This can either be straight murder, or done in such a way as to make an example of them. That is, for example, either a lynching until they are dead, then the body is taken down and properly buried; or to leave them hung as a warning to other offenders.

Judging from what I've seen, I would guess the typical Frenchman-on-the-street is still somewhere between the first and second phases. Still unwilling to "do anything" personally, they want the government to "do something".

It is still in the realm of political jockying for power. Only when people start being killed in some numbers will this change.
Posted by Anonymoose 2005-11-06 10:10||   2005-11-06 10:10|| Front Page Top

#3 Many of the banlieu dwellers are armed. The French citizenry in general is not.

Makes a difference in what you do and when and how.

I wonder if there isn't some sense of guilt for the current social setup which inhibits action as well.
Posted by lotp 2005-11-06 10:52||   2005-11-06 10:52|| Front Page Top

#4 moose, it is very clear that people will not be killed in this intifada except by accident. The yoots do not want to move up this ladder of escalation but do want to make the government concede its inability to govern in terriroties the yoots control.
Posted by Thravish Elminerong7579 2005-11-06 10:59||   2005-11-06 10:59|| Front Page Top

#5 I wonder if there isn't some sense of guilt for the current social setup which inhibits action as well.

Perhaps the sobriquet cheese eating surrender monkeys is not so unwarranted after all. This does look an awful lot like 1940 where the assets are available but the leadership is paralized.
Posted by Elmeart Cherens4263 2005-11-06 11:03||   2005-11-06 11:03|| Front Page Top

#6 It's time for another "reconquista". You had to kick the bastards out once before, why is it so hard to grasp the idea now?
Posted by bigjim-ky 2005-11-06 11:10||   2005-11-06 11:10|| Front Page Top

#7 I wonder if there isn't some sense of guilt for the current social setup which inhibits action as well. Posted by: lotp

After living on the left for generations, and relying on a socialist Gov't for everything, I suspect they've learned to live with "guilt" quite handily...might not even be able to recognize the concept any longer. Inclusion and affirmative action are the key. Being "French" will simply no longer suffice. One must be "French Algerian" or "French PA, and have access to ethnic preferences, 40 hectors and a new Peugeot, et al. One reaps what one sows.
Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-06 11:11||   2005-11-06 11:11|| Front Page Top

#8 While I'm bitching about europe, I might add that with no guns, all you can do is hide under the bed and hope the cops show up on time to save your ass.
That is what the gun grabbers and liberals want to turn us into here.
Posted by bigjim-ky 2005-11-06 11:13||   2005-11-06 11:13|| Front Page Top

#9 The French Gov missed the mark with their allowing this to grow right from thr start. Britten did the same thing, now they are working it. We were no better, remember the WATTS riots, how long did that last. The last thing the French need to do is send in tanks. This will only justify them and get an icrease in international support, IE Iran. the French need to contain it, the best they can. After it settles down they can go after the core, and make changes in their policies and police practices. A relook and enfrorcement of immigration policies. I'm not getting soft but there is a democratic government there, albiet a socialist one, the French people will rally to this like the Britts and finally get on the team.
Posted by 49 pan 2005-11-06 11:24||   2005-11-06 11:24|| Front Page Top

#10 I'm with the Leclerc solution, supported by battalions of pissed off infantry.
Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-06 11:28||   2005-11-06 11:28|| Front Page Top

#11 Being "French" will simply no longer suffice. One must be "French Algerian" or "French PA, and have access to ethnic preferences, 40 hectors and a new Peugeot, et al. One reaps what one sows.

I agree with what I think is your general thrust, but be careful not to impute the US model to France. The Republic does not give ethnic preferences - that was the argument behind banning the hijab in school, for instance.
Posted by lotp 2005-11-06 11:34||   2005-11-06 11:34|| Front Page Top

#12 President Chirac seems to have come down on the side of those who feel the scum's grievances need to be addressed. He called for "a spirit of dialogue and respect."

Which is all well and fine when dealing with people who actually seek “dialogue and respect.” The rioters seek neither and will be entirely unaffected by such delicately nuanced forays. Sarkozy seems to be the only one indicating even a dim awareness of this simple fact.

As is the way with the political class, they seem to see the riots as an excellent opportunity to scuttle Sarkozy's presidential ambitions rather than as a call to save the Republic.

Here, I shall quote Charles de Gaulle:

“I have tried to lift France out of the mud. But she will return to her errors and vomitings. I cannot prevent the French from being French.”

If France’s leadership cannot bring themselves to unite against a common enemy, they will thereby become their own greatest foe and perish by their own hand.

Again, I shall quote Charles de Gaulle:

“You start out giving your hat, then you give your coat, then your shirt, then your skin and finally your soul.”

There is no negotiating with those who seek absolute ascendancy. Do so at your own extreme peril. No amount of nuanced diplomacy will alter Islamism's intended goal of Global Cultural Genocide.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-06 13:06||   2005-11-06 13:06|| Front Page Top

#13 1848 Redux
Posted by Glereth Slurt7652 2005-11-06 13:19||   2005-11-06 13:19|| Front Page Top

#14 I thought that this would start in 2006, with a slightly different blackmail scenario, and thought Belgium would be likely first, followed by France, Denmark, Netherlands and Sweden.

In some way, it is fortunate that this insurrection got an early start, there is still remote possibiltity that some people would grow a spine and that the scenario where Western Europe is under shari'a law for one or more generations does not come to pass.
Posted by Sobiesky 2005-11-06 14:35||   2005-11-06 14:35|| Front Page Top

#15 What is the situation in the US? Could this sort of thing happen there? Are there Arab/islamic ghettos/no go areas for the police like in Western Europe? MM (UK)
Posted by Mctavish Mcpherson 2005-11-06 16:17||   2005-11-06 16:17|| Front Page Top

#16 It could happen anywhere MAC. It's all in the numbers. If they've infiltrated thier leftest kak into the local political and law enforcement levels, and it is spun into a socio-economic issue as it appears to be in Paris, you're doomed. Luckily, here the use of rubber bullets has not caught and molotov cocktail tossers can still be shot dead.
Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-06 16:30||   2005-11-06 16:30|| Front Page Top

#17 Thanks Bes. I think this could obviously happen in the UK, namely Birmingham, Bradford or perhaps Leeds. The difference being I think TB would of sent the army in on day 3.
Posted by Mctavish Mcpherson 2005-11-06 16:46||   2005-11-06 16:46|| Front Page Top

#18 Nothing a regiment of Territorials couldn't handle in an afternoon, clean weapons, wash up a bit, and still make it to the pub for a pint and some fish'n chips that evening.
Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-06 16:51||   2005-11-06 16:51|| Front Page Top

#19 Nothing a regiment of Territorials couldn't handle in an afternoon, clean weapons, wash up a bit, and still make it to the pub for a pint and some fish'n chips that evening.
Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-06 16:51||   2005-11-06 16:51|| Front Page Top

00:00 StrategyUnit
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23:46 3dc
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22:49 Barbara Skolaut









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