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2005-11-07 Europe

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Posted by Fred 2005-11-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Great comments.

into a nationwide show of disdain for French authority from youths

Posted by 2b 2005-11-07 00:36|| 2005-11-07 00:36|| Front Page Top

#2 "The law must have the last word,"

I only await to see whether or not that last word is, "surrender."

Posted by Zenster 2005-11-07 00:53|| 2005-11-07 00:53|| Front Page Top

#3 For some reason I'm reminded of BUGS BUNNY versus BLACQUE JACQUE SHELLACQUE: :"April Showers", and Dat Rabbitte is no ordinaire' rabbitte", or words to that effect. Other than making the eastern tip of EURASIA safe for Mother Sheehan and her Commie Airborne, the rioters want jobs but French = Euro-Socialism just can't unilaterally give them any no matter what the political rhetoric. The Muslims know that unless something changes, the entire Muslim universe is about to denigrate into another Black Africa andor Communist-style irrelevancy and implosion. The Mullah-ocracy has only taught them to take from others, NOT to interact, build, or learn for themselves, by and for themselves - they're screwed once whatever TEMPORARY WEALTH-CREDIBILITY they got from the forced, violent taking of the lands, wealth, women, .....@ and pet dogs, etc. of the infidels is used up.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2005-11-07 00:59|| 2005-11-07 00:59|| Front Page Top

#4 Zenster, LOL! Took the words from my keyboard.

JM..The Muslims know that unless something changes, the entire Muslim universe is about to denigrate into another Black Africa andor Communist-style irrelevancy and implosion.
So true.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-07 01:05|| 2005-11-07 01:05|| Front Page Top

#5 Of course not... everybody knows gasoline and your own sewer pipes do not go well together. Esp when dad smoker on the john.

Posted by 3dc 2005-11-07 01:07|| 2005-11-07 01:07|| Front Page Top

#6 Chirac's Lunch here

Posted by 3dc 2005-11-07 01:14|| 2005-11-07 01:14|| Front Page Top

#7 Unbelievable.

The solution is simple. 3 ideas.

1) Martial law
2) 7pm-7am curfew
3) shoot-to-kill rioters/looters

enforce immediately.

Problem solved. Possibly after pitched battle in which you should aim at the highest bodycount possible of the enemy.

Who cares if they love you. So long as they fear you.

Posted by anon1 2005-11-07 01:17|| 2005-11-07 01:17|| Front Page Top

#8 the defiant 17-year-old driver, identifying himself as Murat.

Oh, so THAT'S where he went!

Posted by Secret Master 2005-11-07 01:18|| 2005-11-07 01:18|| Front Page Top

#9 denigrate into another Black Africa andor Communist-style irrelevancy and implosion.

Is there time for popcorn?

Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-07 01:19|| 2005-11-07 01:19|| Front Page Top

#10 3dc...the problem with the French is that not only have taken eating things like snails, frogs, truffles and crow to a fine art....they really like it!

Posted by 2b 2005-11-07 01:29|| 2005-11-07 01:29|| Front Page Top

#11 Well they are sure eating some steaming hot muzzie kak about now.

Posted by Besoeker 2005-11-07 01:48|| 2005-11-07 01:48|| Front Page Top

#12 Secret Master, that was the first thing that popped into my mind as well. ;-)

Posted by twobyfour 2005-11-07 02:25|| 2005-11-07 02:25|| Front Page Top

#13 Attacks occurring in 42 cities, sez WaPo.

Understatement of the ~~Day~~ ~~Week~~ Month:
"If we don't take the appropriate measures right away, things could get way out of proportion," said Stephane Ribou, a police spokesman in Rennes.

Posted by Regnad Kcin 2005-11-07 07:15|| 2005-11-07 07:15|| Front Page Top

#14 Copy cat attacks in Brussels.

When one's most outrageous, hyperbolic, "get everyone's attention" attacks on Euro leadership turn out to have fallen short of the mark, one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Posted by 11A5S 2005-11-07 07:39|| 2005-11-07 07:39|| Front Page Top

#15 Ok, the man who was in the coma, Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec (61), after being beaten for protesting an arson near his house has just died, that would make the first death, but so far media refuse to link it with the events. Very sad.

A 13 months baby was wounded by stones pelted at a bus; two churches were torched (a synagogue already was firebombed earlier), in addition to various public buildings (including schools and two police stations) and businesses or warehouses.

About 30 police officers were hurt, there was numerous reports of shots fired at them, resulting in two buckshot wounds in Griny (non life-threatening, they fired from afar) : ye good ol' 12 gauge pump action shotgun, le bon vieux pompeux des familles, plenty of them in France and especially in working class areas, they were sold in supermarket with no permit or declaration required until the mid 90's, with policemen exhibiting spent shells... note that some internet french msm website incorrectly talk of "pistolet Ã grenaille", a "pistolet Ã grenaille" being a replica firing shots smaller than birdshot, not a real firearm; so again, I don't know if this is voluntary to minimize the info, or just plain stoopidity).
So far the akm and the rpg have not broked out of the weapon caches, but it should be reminded they are proper work tools (attacking armored vehicles, banks, breaking accomplices out of jail like it happened last year,...) and should not be used for fun activities.

About 1000 burnt cars IIUC, plus trucks, bus,... note that As I've mentioned earlier, this is the official figure, taking in account only the initial fires and not the collaterally destroyed vehicles; thus, in a small town, local authorities reported 41 torched cars, while final official national figure published in the press was 11. So, you can probably multiply the numbers by at least 2 or 3 nation-wide.

Speaking of small town, I expressed my forum sympathies to a teen whose family had a fire starting in their small town house, and couldn't get help from the firefighters, because all of them in the department were mobilized to extinguish the multiple arsons in the next big city. Their house burned to the ground, damn.

Mayors start to ask for army intervention, or declaring the state of emergency (one police union asked for it since day two IIRC); Dominique Galouzeau "de Villepin" (who's a man) will go on teevee tonight.
The whole talk now is blaming Sarko for "provoking" the "youths", and for the teargas cannisters supposedly hurled in a mosque (it turns out not only the police say it wasn't her, but the cannister never even made it into the room), which are "of course" the real reasons for the riots.
Media are in full denial, and pols in full infighting mode, this is almost funny.

My take is gvt is playing tiem, hoping it will die out by itself, police has order not ot be proovcative.
There will be a response, but it will be appeasment and money-throwning, like I feared/knew from the start, "de Villepin" said that the "(Jean Louis) Borloo plan" (Borloo being the minister of "social cohesion"... remember this is supposedly a *conservative* gvt...) will be rushed... it involves throwing up to 25 billions euros at theses areas.

Posted by anonymous5089 2005-11-07 07:40|| 2005-11-07 07:40|| Front Page Top

#16 I have found the rioters blaming Sarkozy (at least according to press accounts) to be fascinating - only a Muzlim or socialist, someone living in the abstract, totally consumed with symbols and utterly disconnected from reality, would make such a claim and expect anyone to fall for it, lol. I presume it could prove interesting, given his Presidential ambitions.

Posted by Regnad Kcin 2005-11-07 07:49|| 2005-11-07 07:49|| Front Page Top

#17 You can't appease people who won't be appeased.
This is not so much a clash of civilizations
as it is a crash of civilizations, both francophone and nihilistic islam.

Posted by Clolutle Slans5753 2005-11-07 07:51|| 2005-11-07 07:51|| Front Page Top

#18 Ya know, an AC-130 or two could end this real quick.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-11-07 08:04|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-11-07 08:04|| Front Page Top

#19 Ya know, an AC-130 or two could end this real quick.

No, it couldn't.

I think the rioters are waiting for the use of police violence in order to respond in kind, with heavy weapons. Then they can pretend they're only responding to police escalation.

Heavy strikes at one or two squads on the ground (IF they could avoid hitting friendlies) while thousands more squads are striking elsewhere wouldn't accomplish anything.

They need to have a substantial ground presence in all of the areas this is happening if they plan on countering it with force. Which pretty much means they need the army on the ground in the cite's or however they're spelled.

Posted by Phil 2005-11-07 09:24|| 2005-11-07 09:24|| Front Page Top

#20 And I use the word "squad" on purpose after much thought.

Posted by Phil 2005-11-07 09:27|| 2005-11-07 09:27|| Front Page Top

#21 Which brings to mind my suggestions about what they _should_ be doing:

* Get the military involved, to provide the cops with more manpower.

* Use that manpower to pursue an "oil drop" strategy; proactively set up small regions inside the cite's that they _do_ control and that will have law and order and slowly expand them according to traditional police or military pacification techniques. (I forget where I first read the "oil drop" or "oil spot" analogy... anyone have a convenient link?)

* The areas that are in revolt, that the gangs still control...

NO SOCIAL ASSISTANCE.

That's for groups that aren't attacking the middle class which pays most of the taxes that keeps the gravy train on the tracks. They gotta stand up and say "YOU WANT THE MILLET SYSTEM? FINE. HERE'S A FIRST STEP: THERE WASN'T ANY WELFARE IN THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE."

That last bit would be crucially important. IMHO.

Posted by Phil 2005-11-07 09:43|| 2005-11-07 09:43|| Front Page Top

#22 Appeasement and collaboration citizens?

Posted by H. Petain, III 2005-11-07 10:31|| 2005-11-07 10:31|| Front Page Top

#23 Good thing you stayed out of Iraq, Jake.
Looks like Iraq came to you instead...

Posted by tu3031 2005-11-07 10:37|| 2005-11-07 10:37|| Front Page Top

#24 #23 Good thing you stayed out of Iraq, Jake.
Looks like Iraq came to you instead...

Yes indeed it has. Wait till the French Left's much beloved Islamo-fascist homicide bombers make their grand entry in Gay Paree.

Posted by The Happy Fliegerabwehrkanonen 2005-11-07 10:47|| http://www.calderonswirbelwind.blogspot.com]">[http://www.calderonswirbelwind.blogspot.com] 2005-11-07 10:47|| Front Page Top

#25 Sarkozy was cracking down on their drug trade. That's why they want him out. If the French/Danes/Belgians don't stand up to this, it will very much embolden Moslems to do the same all over Europe. It's "fun" for these "youths" to riot and flex their muscle, so they're going to keep on until Daddy Takes Their T-Bird away . . . :)

Posted by ex-lib 2005-11-07 13:51|| 2005-11-07 13:51|| Front Page Top

#26 Then why the hell didn't you shoot back? Firemen have axes and fire hoses and great big trucks

Silly Imperialist American, neo-con, capitalist pig, radical cristian, Cowboy. dont you know that killing terrorist only make more terrorist, and dont you know the "cycle of violence" it is way to Nueanced than such simple black or white more of a light gray, No Pea Wee the true answer is more concesions because everyone knows that if we just make them all rich and healthy and not make them work they will not hate us anymore why just look at Saudi Arabia they are rich and peacefull right. Besides it is really all our fault so we should be punished and forced to pay reperations and concesions. Its all our great great great great grandfathers intolerance or X retard excuse on why they hate us crap self hatred. I think their is a name for kidnap victims that end up loving thier victimizer from some self laothing cycotic brain disfunction.

Posted by C-Low 2005-11-07 14:10|| 2005-11-07 14:10|| Front Page Top

#27 All I want to know is "do they have an exit strategy?"

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2005-11-07 15:45|| 2005-11-07 15:45|| Front Page Top

#28 No water. No power. No cheques.

Nobody in or out.

Have fun, boys.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-11-07 16:00|| 2005-11-07 16:00|| Front Page Top

#29 No piktures on a poster, no reward and No bail.

Posted by Jimmuah Shipman 2005-11-07 19:43|| 2005-11-07 19:43|| Front Page Top

#30 Ya know, an AC-130 or two could end this real quick.

No, it couldn't.
Phil, I have to agree with RC on this one. It would probably take about a dozen of them, but it would certainly put an end to the entire mess. When that 105MM on the tailgate starts talking, EVERYBODY listens! Or if you rake an area with 20mm gattling guns, you lose street, housefronts, and every window up to the 55th floor - plus the floors INSIDE the buildings. Even the 7.62 miniguns can turn an entire "street" into smoking rubble in one pass. The only limits would be the amount of ammo they could carry, and how fast they can turn around. Even dumping the empty cartridges out the back would cause damage. There's no place to hide from the night-vision scopes, and they can hose down the neighborhood from 12,000, 13,000 feet - too high for most SA-7-type weapons to be effective (besides, the AC's carry flares for that kind of crap).

Rebuilding would not only be difficult, it would have to be done from the basement up.

It would be anal, it would kill both the perps and their parents, and it would result in every LLL perp in the world to go ballistic, but it would put an end to the "fighting" immediately. If you can find them, read what some of the VC say about Spectre - and we've gotten better since then.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2005-11-07 20:20|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2005-11-07 20:20|| Front Page Top

#31 Hi OP!

I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to kill a bunch of platoons of Hard Boyz (at some cost in collateral damage) IF they managed to get there in time... but I don't think the Pinkys and the Brains running the thing care about losing squads and platoons anyway.

_For this sort of attack_ the AC-130's are a poor substitute for having an armed general populace in France. I'm halfway worried that they'd end up bypassed, just like France's theoretically superior (but operationally inferior) tanks back in the Blitzkreig.

I'm not against the idea of violence per se, as a means of self defense or establishing order... it's just that I think this can be done with less collateral damage and more of a withdrawl-of-carrot type approach.

The French are unlikely to try either, IMHO. I suspect what Chirac wants to do is to blame the mess of Sarkozy, either for being too lenient, or for being provocative, or both. I suspect what they would consider optimum is a situation where Sarkozy is blamed for both, and then pushed into a large-scale violent response. That way the riots get squelched and they can blame him for both their existance and the violence needed to squelch them, a win-win situation.

(Withdrawl of benefits from those most associated with the violence and the geographic areas they control would also be against so many socialist dogmas I can imagine them all having herds of cows on the spot.)

Posted by Phil 2005-11-07 22:00|| 2005-11-07 22:00|| Front Page Top

#32 On third thought (as if anyone's reading this thread anymore) I think helizapping the organizers would work and work WELL if they could find the right ones. But that's another bovine birth scenario.

Posted by Phil 2005-11-07 22:23|| 2005-11-07 22:23|| Front Page Top

#33 France must have snipers, still, non?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-11-07 22:30|| 2005-11-07 22:30|| Front Page Top

00:00 jules 2
23:44 Bart Simpson
23:38 GrandpappysWP
23:31 Barbara Skolaut
23:28 Barbara Skolaut
23:26 Frank G
23:25 Frank G
23:24 Pappy
23:21 Barbara Skolaut
23:17 DMFD
23:16 Bomb-a-rama
23:04 Frank G
22:58 Mike Kozlowski
22:55 USN Ret.
22:50 ed
22:49 Elmenter Snineque1852
22:42 Besoeker
22:33 Besoeker
22:33 Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom
22:30 Frank G
22:29 Frank G
22:27 Besoeker
22:26 Bomb-a-rama
22:23 Phil