Article

2006-10-02 International-UN-NGOs

Fjordman: Human Rights Fundamentalism, NGOistan and the Multicultural Industry

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Posted by .com 2006-10-02 01:47|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Good article; I'm partway through it, and will come back later to finish it.

While over at Gates of Vienna, I scrolled around a bit and followed a link to a Rants and Raves article by Stephen Browne, Observations On Arabs, which details a dozen ways in which Arabs, in Dymphna's words, might as well be from another solar system.

How do Browne's conclusions measure up to what you observed over in Soodi-Land?

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 07:01|| 2006-10-02 07:01|| Front Page Top

#2 To follow up, here are Browne's 12 observations, very briefly excerpted:

1) They dont think the same way we do.

2) When you meet them in just the right circumstances, they are a very likable people.

3) Their values are fundamentally different from ours, their self-esteem is derived from a different source.

4) Not only can they not build the infrastructure of a modern society, they cant maintain it either.

5) They do not think of obligations as running both ways.

6) In warfare, we think they are sneaky cowards, they think we are hypocrites.

7) In rhetoric, they dont mean to be taken seriously and they dont understand when we do.

8) They dont place the same value on an abstract conception of Truth as we do, they routinely believe things of breathtaking absurdity.

9) They do not have the same notion of cause and effect as we do.

10) We take for granted that we are a dominant civilization still on the way up. They are acutely aware that they are a civilization on the skids.

11) We think that everybody has a right to their own point of view, they think that that idea is not only self-evidently absurd, but evil.

12) Our civilization is destroying theirs. We cannot share a world in peace. They understand this; we have yet to learn it.

The above has been stripped of a wealth of explanation and examples; as they say, RTWT.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 08:48|| 2006-10-02 08:48|| Front Page Top

#3 The Dave D link is very interesting, applies well (to a certain degree) to the north-african arabs I've met or know here in France.
Except for some comoreans, I've not met enough black africans (the ones I've met or spent my high school daze with were mostly blacks from the french Dom-tom, IE absolutely westernized) to know if there is also such a gap between our hard-wired behavior and their, but my guess is "yes" (I've read that black americans going to south africa end up hanging solely with whites, because they can't relate to native blacks, too culturally different).

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-10-02 10:14|| 2006-10-02 10:14|| Front Page Top

#4 David D., the intelligence level of your previous posts pretty much assures that you are already familiar with the concept of "High Context & Low Context Cultures". If not, please be sure to read the linked article. Anyone not familiar with this method of cultural distinction will gain a great deal of understanding from it.

Nearly all of the distinctions you note in post # 2 are entirely context driven. Arab societies epitomize high context cultures to an almost catastrophic degree. While I have yet to read Fjordman's or Browne's articles (I will do so later today), I urge you or anyone else to read the short one-page description of context driven cultures linked above to gain some often startling insights into Arabic, Islamic and terrrorist mindsets. Their observations about monochronic and polychronic time perception are also quite good.

Here are some excerpts from the article:

China, Chile and Iraq, for instance, are high-context societies in which people tend to rely on their history, their status, their relationships, and a plethora of other information, including religion, to assign meaning to an event. The totality of all this information, implicit, explicit, guides their response to the event. This pattern is in sharp contrast to Norway or Austria, for instance, where people depend for meaning on a relatively narrow range of objective information in specific verbal or physical form.

High-context cultures are characterized by extensive information networks among family, friends, associates, and even clients. Their relationships are close and personal. They keep well informed about the people who are important in their lives. This extensive background knowledge is automatically brought to bear in giving meanings to events and communications. Nothing that happens to them can be described as an isolated event; everything is connected to meaningful context.

People in low-context cultures, on the other hand, tend to compartmentalize their lives and relationships. They permit little "interference" of "extraneous" information. Thus in order to give detailed meaning to an event, they require detailed information in a communication. The "context" must be explicit in the message. One might expect, therefore, that low-context communications are perforce wordier, or longer, than high-context messages, since they have to carry more information. In fact, the opposite is sometimes true: low-context cultures use language with great precision and economy. Every word is meaningful. In high-context cultures, language is promiscuous: since words have relatively less value, they are spent in great sums.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-02 15:55|| 2006-10-02 15:55|| Front Page Top

#5 "David D., the intelligence level of your previous posts pretty much assures that you are already familiar with the concept of "High Context & Low Context Cultures"."

Ha! Never hoid of 'em.

I'll check out the link as soon as I get home from work. BBL...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 16:23|| 2006-10-02 16:23|| Front Page Top

#6 That was a good article, Zenster. Thanks for the link. And it does add a dimension of understanding to what Browne had to say.

And now on to the Fjordman article...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 17:10|| 2006-10-02 17:10|| Front Page Top

#7 Dang. The Fjordman article is a must-read, the whole thing. These two paragraphs stood out for me, though:

"French philosopher and cultural critic Alain Finkielkraut thinks that Europe has made human rights its new gospel. Has human rights fundamentalism approached the status of quasi-religion? Have we acquired a new class of scribes, who claim the exclusive right to interpret their Holy Texts in order to reveal Absolute Truth, and scream blasphemy at the few heretics who dare question their authority? The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a great document, but it is written by humans, and may thus contain human flaws. We shouldnt treat as if it were a revelation from God, carved into stone. Far less should we deem as infallible the veritable maze of regulations and well-meaning human rights resolutions that have rendered democratic nations virtually unable to defend themselves.

[...]

If democratic nations are bogged down by suicidal human rights regulations while non-democratic states simply ignore any agreements they sign, doesnt this mean that we run a risk that human rights and international law, instead of helping people in repressive countries, will weaken the democratic countries that actually respect them?"

The answers: yes, yes, and yes.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 17:43|| 2006-10-02 17:43|| Front Page Top

#8 Dave - The list stands up to multiple reads well...

Islam. Steve Browne's list is a Westerner's reflection of Islam - through a glass darkly, lol. To understand what the Saudis are about you just have to understand the absolute worst of Islam. Not that it makes any sense or spreads where not imposed except among the dysfunctional and disaffected. It permeates all, dictates all, suppresses all, controls all, corrupts all, destroys all, brutalizes all, and rewards a very privileged few. Islam is the ultimate bottom-feeder of mankind, infecting and systematically destroying the worthy traits of humanity in all it controls.

When trying to explain the inexplicable, lol, I tend to rely on illustrative stories. The differences in some cases simply defy Western logic and distillation, I'm afraid, so the stories approach allows folks to draw conclusions in their own logical style using their own experiences.

I won't repeat my stories. Hell, there are some very smart folks 'round here who've been to the Magic Kingdom and could tell you their stories. Variety and different perspectives / angles would be better than repetition, methinks. I enthusiastically encourage them to post their observations in whatever form they're comfortable with. No doubt I'll enjoy them immensely! So PLEASE post!

BTW, my first reply to this thread was swallowed whole and I was sent to Roadside America, again. I think it was attempt to organize a little flowchart of terms in HTML, this time. I had to start over from total fucking scratch, so this is much shorter and excludes some amazingly brilliant reasoning, lol. It was an epic, honest injun. Lol. I surrender.

Posted by .com 2006-10-02 18:24|| 2006-10-02 18:24|| Front Page Top

#9 "Dave - The list stands up to multiple reads well..."

Yeah, I kinda thought it might-- it seemed to me to square pretty well with a lot of what you'd told us over the years about your experiences in Soddiland...

"BTW, my first reply to this thread was swallowed whole and I was sent to Roadside America, again."

Jeebus... I tell ya, between the occasional dump-off to Muffler Man for God-knows-what obscure reason, and the sometimes-frequent OTR status of the RB server, I've made it a habit to automatically hit CTRL-A and CTRL-C before punching the ol' Submit Query button. It has saved me beaucoup heartache...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 18:37|| 2006-10-02 18:37|| Front Page Top

#10 CTRL-A and CTRL-C

Lol - I'll reacquire that habit.

It's actually pretty damned hard to do what Browne has done, so much simply defies understanding from the Western POV and, consequently, clear description.

Posted by .com 2006-10-02 18:44|| 2006-10-02 18:44|| Front Page Top

#11 To summarize Stephen Browne: our societies are based on reciprocity, theirs on kin selection.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-10-02 20:35|| 2006-10-02 20:35|| Front Page Top

#12 My comments on the Fjordman article.

In August of 1990, representatives of 54 Muslim countries met in Cairo and signed the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. What then are Islamic Human Rights and how do they differ from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)?

The Cairo Declaration allows stoning as punishment, prohibits Muslims from changing their religion, prohibits usury, does not give women equal rights and divides the world between Muslims and infidels.

The degree of cognitive dissonance required to sign a document containing the term Human Rights, that goes on to enumerate how it allows stoning as punishment, prohibits Muslims from changing their religion, prohibits usury, does not give women equal rights , enters the realm of incredulity. It is symptomatic of how Arab society indulges itself in the most strenuously contradictory feats of self-deception and utterly outlandish conspiracy theories. Go ahead and link it to the high-context principle of how; Nothing that happens to them can be described as an isolated event; everything is connected to meaningful context. Yet, if that context is so intrinsically flawed, all we are looking at is fruit of the poisoned tree.

Let us enter into the realm of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR).

Cooing should be a thing of the past because these are little people with the same rights as you or me.

Complete and total bullshit. A minor dependent (especially an infant) does not possess the same civil rights of an adult who has attained legal majority. Property ownership, driving, smoking and drinking are the most basic examples of this difference.

Norwegian medical doctor Ståle Fredriksen thinks that giving homework to school children violates their human rights. He refers to article 24 in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, stating that: Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours. Dr. Fredriksen believes school children in Norway dont have this right.

Again, utter insanity. The long term and life career benefits of compulsory public education far outweigh whatever ostensible access to temporary leisure, and especially so for a minor, that any putative claim to loss of rest or enjoyment is patently falsified.

How will people who are afraid that cooing at babies or giving homework to children might violate their human rights fare against people who think that those who insult Muhammad should have their heads cut off?

BINGO!

Writer Robin Harris noted that The traditional British view is that rights should be negative: we may do whatever the law does not forbid. This is how Anglo-Saxon law has been shaped from the very beginning, all the way back to the Magna Carta in 1215, which placed limitations on the kings power.

According to Harris, We do not expect from the state a positive right to specific benefits a job, or a house, or a good education.

This represents a cornerstone of modern constitutional law. It is also the absolute bedrock of conservative doctrine; Namely, that government must at all times be restrained from any intrusion upon the private lives and activities of law abiding citizens. However repugnant it might be for you republicans, this is also the wellspring of rights, including marriage, for homosexuals in American society. Until homosexuality is declared illegal, any abrogation of their rights is a defiance of proper constitutional law. I refer you to the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Modern law grants us the right to the pursuit of Happiness. But nowhere does it guarantee same and rightfully so. It seems that much of political correctness demands government provision of such happiness and this is where the fatal poison of interpretation regarding what constitutes happiness seeps into legislative doctrine. Theocracy is the prime example of such meddling, but political correctness stridently insists upon recognition at nearly the same exact level. This is what makes it such a toxic brew of appealing, yet, totally dysfunctional mandates.

It is possible for all members of a society to obtain their negative rights, such as freedom from oppression and tyranny, at the same time. These include the rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, as stated by Thomas Jefferson in the 1776 United States Declaration of Independence.

This becomes a lot more difficult once we introduce the idea of positive rights, such as the right to a job. These require others to actively do something to fulfill your rights for you.

I rest my case.

Had the Allies been required to fight World War II under the rules of engagement selectively applied to Amnesty International to Israel, our greatest generation might have lost that war. If attacking the civilian infrastructure is a war crime, then modern warfare is entirely impermissible, and terrorists have a free hand in attacking democracies and hiding from retaliation among civilians. Terrorists become de facto immune from any consequences for their atrocities.

This must be chisled into the forehead of every military commander who is sent to fight the terrorist threat.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-02 20:48|| 2006-10-02 20:48|| Front Page Top

#13 Heh... for me, nothing illustrated better the distinction between "positive rights" and "negative rights" than when I was reading that abominable EU "Constitution" and found among their "fundamental human rights" the "right" to free job placement services.

Kinda says it all.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-02 21:14|| 2006-10-02 21:14|| Front Page Top

#14

And by the way, among "rational, fair-minded" non-interventionist libertarians, not a damn one of them has asked me, "What in your experience caused you to change your mind?" Instead what I get are gratuitous insults followed by insufferably condescending lectures about how wrong I am.

I can sing that song by heart.

there are a lot of different ways to be human. We Americans have a basically open attitude to our fellow human beings and sometimes forget this. Combined with the fact that most Americans are linguistic idiots, we tend to assume that anyone who learns to speak English learns to think like us.

[Daffy Duck] Aha! ~~Pronoun~~ Context trouble! [/DD]

Arabs are often easy to like, but difficult to respect - as opposed to Israelis, who are often difficult to like but impossible not to respect.

To quote Arethra Franklin; R-E-S-P-E-C-T

The basic forms of work: making stuff, growing stuff and moving stuff around, is taken care of by a class of indentured servants, usually non-Arab Muslims from the Third World, and even today, by outright slaves.

Which goes a long way towards explaining the almost complete and total absence of any manufacturing base in nearly every Arab or Muslim majority nation.

This is expressed in the inshallah philosophy, If God wills it. A Palestinian friend of mine explained to me that even the weather forecaster will qualify his prediction, It will rain tomorrow. Inshallah. Or, I will meet you tomorrow, inshallah.

And it is here where we must all be somewhat thankful that Christianity has, at least, abandoned to a greater degree the notion of; Its Gods will. Had this not happened, we in the West might just as well also be stuck in a similar stone-age mileau.

what we call terrorism is quite close to the historically normal way of warfare among these people.

Word. Nuff said.

Arabs dont seem to mind making a scene in public and have a high blown sense of drama.

See; High Context Societies. Also see why we will probably have to kick multitudinous Arab ass back several ~~hundred~~ centuries before they realize we arent joking.

Ive been assured, by well-educated and otherwise sensible people that Winston Churchill was Jewish

Again, I refer back to; how Arab society indulges itself in the most strenuously contradictory feats of self-deception and utterly outlandish conspiracy theories. Go ahead and link it to the high-context principle of how; Nothing that happens to them can be described as an isolated event; everything is connected to meaningful context. Yet, if that context is so intrinsically flawed, all we are looking at is fruit of the poisoned tree.

This involves some seriously weird stuff about other people being responsible for their misery because they ill-wished them.

Can you say; Americas support for Israel? Very good, I knew you could.

There was a time when cultural transmission between Islam and the West went overwhelmingly from them to us. Now the situation is reversed, and it is humiliating for them.

Only because of their complete and total inability to understand, comprehend, assimilate or accept the contributions of non-Islamic cultures. Tough shit, yall. At some point it may well become necessary for the West to issue forth such non-Islamic contibutions as high throw-weight hydrogen bombs.

we are sometimes left in the absurd position of defending their idea as perfectly valid for them. Doesnt work that way for them, Gods Truth is laid out in some detail in the Koran, and not to believe it is a sin.

Unless you do not happen to believe in (or respect) the Koran.

Can the subjugation of women coexist with Western Civilization with Western media ubiquitous throughout the world? Can a pluralistic and tolerant society be governed by Islamic law? Can a modern economy exist where interest is forbidden and many forms of business risk-taking are considered gambling, and thus forbidden? Can a society that educates its young men by a process of rote recitation produce critically thinking, technically educated men to build and operate a modern economy? Can you even teach elementary concepts of maintenance to a people who believe that anything that happens is inshalla (As God will it)? To compete, or even just survive in the world they must become more like us and less like themselves and they know this.

Ummmm no! End of story. End of any negotiation. End of all myths about Moderate Muslims. We have an enemy, it is Islam. Those who think otherwise should go join them in their religious utopias.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-02 22:10|| 2006-10-02 22:10|| Front Page Top

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