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2006-10-26 Home Front: WoT

December 7, 2008

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Posted by anonymous5089 2006-10-26 03:39|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It's thinkable. That is why I am a hawk on both First Use and Pre-emptive War doctrine.

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-10-26 05:10|| 2006-10-26 05:10|| Front Page Top

#2 Damn right.

My only quibble is that the date chosen would be one of significance to Muslims, not to Americans.

I'm also skeptical of the level of sophistication -- but then, even one nuke mission, sloppily executed, is too much.

Posted by exJAG 2006-10-26 05:41|| 2006-10-26 05:41|| Front Page Top

#3 I've done a lot of thinking over the last few months about what would likely happen if the Democratic Party won a majority in Congress next month, and then the Presidency in 2008. I've put a lot of work into it, because my gut sense has told me it could have some dire consequences.

So it was very difficult for me reading this article, because the scenario the author lays out is EXACTLY what I think could easily happen. The only quibble I'd make is that he has events unfolding much more quickly than I'd expect.

But make no mistake: either the Democrats will pay dearly for their perfidy in the next two elections, or we all will.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-26 06:51|| 2006-10-26 06:51|| Front Page Top

#4 Since the war has become so politicized, if the Democrats win, I expect the bottom to drop out of enlistments.

Posted by ed 2006-10-26 07:42|| 2006-10-26 07:42|| Front Page Top

#5 Good point. Recruitment and retention would both plummet, especially if the Dems forced us to abandon Iraq under the excuse of "responsible redeployment".

Not that they'd mind, of course: the current crop of Democrats would be more than happy to let our armed forces rot and spend the money instead on free lunches for their parasitic constituents.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-26 08:34|| 2006-10-26 08:34|| Front Page Top

#6 "The failure of many Americans, including many of the leading Democrats in Congress, and some Republicans, to fully appreciate the persistent, long-term threat posed to America's liberties and survival, and to the future of Liberal Democracies everywhere, by an Islamic Resistance Movement that envisions a world dominated and defined by an Islamic Caliphate of religious totalitarianism, and which will fight any war, make any sacrifice, suffer any hardship, and pay any price to achieve it, may prove to be the kind of blunder upon which the fate of America turns, and falls."

Seems to say it all. I will have to vote Republican because it is the evil of two lessers. The Democrats would sell this country out. I don't think they are capable of pulling off a good wet dream (Or respond to threats that are out there such as 9-11. What would they do, convene a internation conflict resolution conference?).

The "First Use and Pre-emptive War doctrine" has to be an option for defence of this country.

Posted by JohnQC 2006-10-26 08:45|| 2006-10-26 08:45|| Front Page Top

#7 --- The level of sophistication in this story is very doubtful. However, since our southern border is wide open, the existence of nukes in the hands of enemies like Pakistan, North Korea & Iran make it just a matter of time before such are smuggled into this country & set off.
--- Probably only 3 or 4 nukes set off at ground level in the US would do about the same damage as in this scenario, because the US economic network is more fragile than it looks to be. I remember that some Michigan gas stations closed for a few days as a result of damage to the oil industry caused by Katrina last year. Remember the wide-spread August 2003 power failure caused by a tree branch in Ohio? I wonder what effect just one small nuke detonated near Houston oil refineries would have on the rest of the country's economy and transportation system, especially in winter.
---- The response to the attack by the surviving US government now led by a Cheney was not mentioned in this article. I guess this has been discussed ad nauseam on Rantburg by now.
---- Mass murder in Iraq after a premature US withdrawal, as described by the author, are exactly what I foresee would happen. I would not dignify it by the term "civil war," but rather an escalation of what is already going on.
---- The indirect death toll is probably vastly understated. Remember all the oil the US must import to support its SOL (standard of living, or you can provide the alternative meaning)? I have mentioned before in Rantburg that the food we eat is made of oil and cooked with gas. It is also brought to us by diesel powered trucks getting 13 mpg if they're lucky. Ships transporting food run on oil. This scenario means worldwide food deliveries would drop like a rock.
--- Nuclear proliferation, wide open US borders, and the dependence on the US economy on large amounts of imported oil are at least as dangerous to our future as Islamic fascism. So much could have been done since 9/11 while we have been entertaining each other with other matters. The majority of the US electorate seems far more interested in enjoying their freedom than protecting it.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2006-10-26 11:04|| 2006-10-26 11:04|| Front Page Top

#8 One thing I do see if such a scenario were to unroll, and one thing left out:

President Cheney.

Do you honestly think he would sit there with major US cities in nuclear ruins, millions of Americans dead and NOT eliminate the threat?

There would be multiple large nuclear detonations from US ICBMs in Tehran, Pyongyang, Damascus, Karachi, Mecca and a few other known sites that have the finances, technical know-how and tacit ability to bring off such a threat. So the incoming president would have a crippled US, but would also not have to worry about follow-on strikes from those sources that launched the originals. I believe that a President Cheney would also follow up with world-wide conventional bombings of the Madrassas and other sites that spawned such hate, and the wet-work ban would be rapidly rescinded, followed by the death of large numbers of Saudi and other financiers, world-wide.

US Annihilation of NKor would be thorough, and the devastation of Iran, Syria and Pakistan would be just as fierce.

A President Cheney presiding over a nuclear attacked US would insure that those who generated the strikes would find it hard to build nukes and recruit terrorists - their leadership would be dead, finances destroyed, logistics demolished and the centers of their movement are all vapor. And Islam is tied to this world in a severe manner. US Freedom is a concept anchored in the hearts of men, and cannot be erased by taking out a place. Islam, on the other hand, with the application of thermonuclear blasts to certain areas, becomes bereft of its ability to function. It places all muslims in a bind if they cannot complete the Haj, and their holiest of sites do not exist at all anymore.

Blow up the Vatican? We will rebuild elsewhere.

Blow up Mecca? Well sorry, they cannot alter their books one iota, so they are stuck!

In that fiction, the US might have suffered a severe blow, but Islamicism would cease to exist through nuclear erasure of its main backers, their population centers and the centers of Radical Islam.

Do I advocate that now?

No.

But do I advocate it in the event of a covert nuclear strike that is designed to destroy the US?

Yes. Unequivocally. At that point they would have proven the threat level that justifies utter annihilation.

Posted by OldSpook 2006-10-26 12:48|| 2006-10-26 12:48|| Front Page Top

#9 Truly terrifying. I have to believe some over there, through their hatred, will not do this. It would ensure their own deaths and the deaths of those who give them power: The masses of Splodeydopes. Not to mention in EVERY SINGLE mind of every muslim is the threat of Mecca getting nuked. I would say the chances of this happening is almost nill, but with Kimmy in charge of Nkor and Ahmenijad in charge of Iran...

Well, I'm praying. History has always shown the least expected outcome can happen.

Posted by Charles 2006-10-26 13:05|| 2006-10-26 13:05|| Front Page Top

#10 ...I've gotta agree with OS - the one thing that was missing from that story is what a President Cheney would do once he was secure. Kimmy and Dinnerjacket would be dead within hours. We would be hurt, and hurt badly, but we would survive, and we would prevail. North Korea and Iran would not have sufficient population or infrastructure surviving to ever come back except as provinces of some other nation.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-10-26 13:34|| 2006-10-26 13:34|| Front Page Top

#11 OS and Mike have it, plus, following the retalitory attacks, there would be mass rebuilding effort begun that would put everybody still capable of fogging a mirror to work according to their abilities. yes, it would smack of socialism, but i expect the wankers would be shut up by whatever means necessary and we would persevere. if you have read Steven King's The Stand, substitute this for his epidemic and you have the flaovor of what we would be up against. i would also expect the hard decisions made that those not expected to survive would not have the scarce medical resources wasted on them. Harsh, but necessary.

Posted by USN, ret. 2006-10-26 14:55|| 2006-10-26 14:55|| Front Page Top

#12 1153 - Minot, North Dakota
"Damn, pop! Look at all the missles taking off!

Posted by mojo">mojo 2006-10-26 17:42|| 2006-10-26 17:42|| Front Page Top

#13 --- The wankers will never shut up, they are the living dead of the 21st century.
--- A mass rebuilding effort after an event like this will move very slowly without oil imports from the Muslims. About the speed of a walk, in fact. Our Strategic Petroleum Reserve is designed for short term shortages of oil, not for indefinite ones. Nothing has been done so far to deal with the issue of oil dependence.
--- The NK and Iranian leadership almost certainly have their own versions of Cheyenne Mountain. Iran has imported subway tunneling machines.
--- Even if Mecca became a radioactive crater, Muslims could still make the hajj. They might not return alive, but their obligation is to make the hajj once in a lifetime. A religion of suicide bombers could just as well become a religion of suicide pilgrims.

Posted by Slaviger Angomong7708 2006-10-26 18:10|| 2006-10-26 18:10|| Front Page Top

#14 This is intriquing read for certain. It may be simpler even than this. Notice how no one pays attention to the cargo containers border to border. Nearly none of these are inspected. A very large nuke could be hidden amongst the cargo in any of these. And we would deliver it to the designated location. These could be innocently delivered into the centers of many cities. (Only Detroit would be safe, so as not to kill too many Muzzies) Virtually all cities of any size could be simultaneously eliminated. Staggers the mind as to why massive efforts are not expended safeguarding our home territory.

Posted by SpecOp35 2006-10-26 18:31|| 2006-10-26 18:31|| Front Page Top

#15 SA - you discount our appropriation of Mexican and Venezuelan oil fields - easily accomplished by a sufficiently pissed off and desperate US

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-10-26 19:52|| 2006-10-26 19:52|| Front Page Top

#16 And the Arabian AMERICAN Oil Company (ARAMCO) fields are not too very,very close to Mecca.

Bombs away!

Only as needed, of course. I would never advocate the nuclear annihilation of a Holy City.

Cough, cough. {8^P

Posted by Parabellum 2006-10-26 20:51|| 2006-10-26 20:51|| Front Page Top

#17 Notice how no one pays attention to the cargo containers border to border.

Ummmm .... that's not true, although details aren't appropriate here. Let's just say that while we don't have 100% screening, we do have some things in place and more being deployed as rapidly as we can.

The NYT hasn't managed to spill all the details on this stuff yet, so it's still effective.

Posted by lotp 2006-10-26 21:32|| 2006-10-26 21:32|| Front Page Top

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