Article

2006-11-26 Europe

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 10:57|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Gee, why do I get the feeling that Peters has another shoe that's waiting to be dropped. Like, why don't we shift the European Muzzies over here where they have a real chance at assimilation.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-26 11:53|| 2006-11-26 11:53|| Front Page Top

#2 I have no difficulty imagining a scenario in which U.S. Navy ships are at anchor and U.S. Marines have gone ashore at Brest, Bremerhaven or Bari to guarantee the safe evacuation of Europe's Muslims.

I have no problem calling for the impeachment of any asshat who orders it.

Peters must love the taste of Arab ass.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-11-26 12:08|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-11-26 12:08|| Front Page Top

#3 "a rash of pop prophets..."

Oh, for cryin' out loud, Ralph; just stuff a damn sock in it, wouldja? You're no less a "pop prophet" than anyone else opinionating today.

"The historical patterns are clear: When Europeans feel sufficiently threatened - even when the threat's concocted nonsense - they don't just react, they over-react with stunning ferocity."

Well, those historical patterns will either hold, or they will not. To date, there is damn little evidence that those patterns are about to repeat themselves-- and a lot of evidence that suggests they will not. Today's Europeans sound an awful lot like they really, REALLY would rather die on their knees than lift a finger to save themselves.

"I have no difficulty imagining a scenario in which U.S. Navy ships are at anchor and U.S. Marines have gone ashore at Brest, Bremerhaven or Bari to guarantee the safe evacuation of Europe's Muslims."

Not even on a triple hit of Purple Haze could I imagine such a damnfool thing. Get real, Ralphie.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-11-26 12:11|| 2006-11-26 12:11|| Front Page Top

#4 He does have that special gift of being blissfully unaware that incredibly stupid things come out of his keyboard. Doesn't he let an article sit, say overnight at least, and then re-read it to see if it's completely inane? Sigh.

It's one thing to be a brave blogger who lets fly and takes the lumps for it - in real-time... we do provide this therapeutic outlet for free, lol. It's a whole 'nuther thing to be (at least) thrice as stupid as the dumbest post managed in a whole day on RB -- and get paid for it.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 12:26|| 2006-11-26 12:26|| Front Page Top

#5 I see two possibilities. (1) Steyn is right and the Europeans don't have the spine anymore to defend themselves (2) Peters is right and the Europeans go ape shit on the Muslims.

I don't think the US would be involved at all except to tut-tut the worst atrocities that might hit the media. But a rioting city sealed off will simply die of starvation (as Stalin did to the Ukranians) . If the Europeans blame Jihadists for making things too dangerous for firemen and police to help who are we to blame? It's enough deneyability for a world sick of Muslims picking fights and beheading people and looking for nukes and dirty bombs that we'll take the Europeans word for it until the deed is done and the tell-all books come out a few decades later as things are declassified.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-11-26 12:32|| 2006-11-26 12:32|| Front Page Top

#6 I can see the Europeans reacting violently to a Muslim incident. What I don't see is an organized European response that would result in any real number of Muslims being displaced. One city maybe, one nation unlikely, continentwide impossible.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-11-26 12:49|| 2006-11-26 12:49|| Front Page Top

#7 When a third of French voters have demonstrated their willingness to vote for Jean-Marie Le Pen's National Front - a party that makes the Ku Klux Klan seem like Human Rights Watch

Utter, shameless BS, and I'm not a fan of the FN. Even the fringe groups gravitating around the party are not on par with modern KKK or any neo-nazi type org.

The bulk of the FN ideology is something you'd expect from a run-of-the-mill buchananite, basically... Anti-immigration, anti-globalization/free trade, anti-big business/pro small business, and some anti-jewish resentment (not nazi racial antisemitism, rather jooos as ennemies of national cohesion through liberalism and high finance).
The racialists have been driven out a long time ago (the FN is actually one of the most empowering party when it comes to having elected people from minorities), the "free-marketers" also, as were the traditionalist catholics. What's left is a rather hollow shell, with a rather mild ideology especially when compared to the diabolization.
Le Pen is a rather colorful character, true, but he's an ex-paratrooper/commie-smasher street fighter type and an archetypal populist rightwinger, not a white supremacist.

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-11-26 13:04|| 2006-11-26 13:04|| Front Page Top

#8 real Muslims zealots provide Europe's bigots with all the propaganda they need. Al Qaeda and its wannabe fans are the worst thing that could have happened to Europe's Muslims.

It's not just Europe's bigots. Those "real Muslim zealots" give anybody in their right mind nine different reasons to Sunday why Islam is the biggest threat since Nazism and communism combined. Funny how you don't hear any of the European Muslims decrying how al-Qaeda has made their life so hard. All I've ever heard from them is lusty cheering for the "Magnificent 19".

I have no difficulty imagining a scenario in which U.S. Navy ships are at anchor and U.S. Marines have gone ashore at Brest, Bremerhaven or Bari to guarantee the safe evacuation of Europe's Muslims.

I'll have what he's having, thank you. Must be some good stuff he gets on that high salary of his. Before 9-11 this scenario might have played out. Post 9-11? America's give-a-shit meter is still pegging five years later. What the fuck would we want with a bunch of beheading car-burners over here? I have as much use for Peters' supposed insights as I have use for two peters myself.

AND we're lucky. The United States attracts the quality. American Muslims have a higher income level than our national average. We hear about the handful of rabble-rousers, but more of our fellow Americans who happen to be Muslims are doctors, professors and entrepreneurs.

He left out the part about a massive fifth column of silent supporters and covert operatives. Evidently Peters didn't find the time to compare notes with his European colleagues before going to press.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-11-26 13:22|| 2006-11-26 13:22|| Front Page Top

#9 Just for clarification, when the US boatlifted folks out of Lebanon we did not bring them to the USA (I'm talking about in the 80s not the recent one when we took US citizens back). I see no reason to think we'd rescue French-Arabs and bring them to the US.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-11-26 13:53|| 2006-11-26 13:53|| Front Page Top

#10 I also think Peters is conflating ethnic groups and religions. The US has a high number of Christian Arabs that assimilate and do well and have no desire to return. The American-Muslims like to claim them because it inflates there numbers.

The US also has a bunch of Pakistani/Indian Muslims that are here on work visas and tend to leave. They tend to be better than the usual. They are not American-Muslims because they are not Americans.

Then there are the Muslim Arabs in the United States. They do not tend to live up to Col Peters descriptions of American Muslims from what I've heard. They fit Zensters version a lot better.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-11-26 13:58|| 2006-11-26 13:58|| Front Page Top

#11 via Powerline

I dont know whether Mr Peters is referring to my book, because, as usual when this particular columnist comes out swinging, he prefers to confront unnamed generalized opponents: thus, he refers to a rash of pop pundits predicting Europe will become Eurabia. Dismissing with airy condescension a rash of anonymities means you avoid having to deal with specific arguments.

Had he read America Alone, for example, he would know that I do, indeed, foresee a revival of Fascism in Europe. He concludes: All predictions of Europe going gently into that good night are surreal. Which of us predicted anything about going gently? As I write on page 105 of my book: Its true that there are many European populations reluctant to go happily into the long Eurabian night. What I point out, though, is that, even if youre hot for a new Holocaust, demography tells. There are no Hitlers to hand. When Mr Peters cites the success of Jean Marie Le Pens National Front, he overlooks not only Le Pens recent overtures to Muslims but also the fact that M Le Pen is pushing 80. As a general rule, when 600 octogenarians are up against 200 teenagers, bet on the teens. In five or ten years time, who precisely is going to organize mass deportations from French cities in which the native/Muslim youth-population ratio is already right now - 55/45?

As Ive said innumerable times, the native European population is split three ways: some will leave, as the Dutch (and certain French) are already doing; some will shrug and go along with the Islamization of the continent, as the ever-accelerating number of conversions suggests; and so the ones left to embrace Fascism will be a minority of an aging population. It will be bloody and messy, as I write in America Alone, but it will not alter the final outcome. If you dont breed, you cant influence the future. And furthermore a disinclination to breed is a good sign you dont care much about the future. Thats why the Spaniards, who fought a brutal bloody civil war for their country in the 1930s, folded instantly after those Madrid bombings. When youve demographically checked out of the future, why fight for it?

Ralph Peters is late to this debate. If hes going to join the discussion, he might do better to tackle the facts. But that would require him to acknowledge real specifics rather than a rash of pop pundits. Youll notice that his column and mine differ not just in their approach to worldviews but in their approach to argument: mine cites four specific persons, their actions and assertions; his boldly batters anonymous generalizations. I know which I regard as more effective.

Posted by Mark Steyn 2006-11-26 14:18|| 2006-11-26 14:18|| Front Page Top

#12 " We hear about the handful of rabble-rousers, but more of our fellow Americans who happen to be Muslims are doctors, professors and entrepreneurs."

Yes they are successful. Which means they've got more disposable income to funnel to the jihad on a local, national, and international level. It's obligatory.

"And the American dream is still alive and well, thanks: Even the newest taxi driver stumbling over his English grammar knows he can truly become an American.

Muslim Cabbie at airport in MN: "Is whiskey bottle you got in hand infidel? No ride for you...Hey blind man, that your seeing eye dog? No ride for you....Hey woman, your dress too short and sweater too tight. Don't blame me if I rape you. Put scarf on head or no ride for you. It's Allah's will."

Sorry Ralph, put me down in the category that doesn't believe all that many muslims want to become Americans.

Yeah, they want to live in America, but that isn't enough. For most being muslim will always trump being American.

Let me put it this way: Real Americans wouldn't get together and STAGE a scene to spew koranic prayers on board an airliner. Muslims would. That's the differnce.

Posted by Mark Z 2006-11-26 14:25|| 2006-11-26 14:25|| Front Page Top

#13 Rare has been the conqueror that wanted to preserve the prize after taking it. Plunder is the norm. Golden geese are dinner fare for barbarians. Fuck tomorrow, Allan will provide.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 14:28|| 2006-11-26 14:28|| Front Page Top

#14 Mark, if it is you, please shed some light on why American politicians won't go near this subject, when awareness and logic would force the debate and all future possibilities to the table. America must know which way Europe is heading and how to handle the situation.

Posted by wxjames 2006-11-26 14:29|| 2006-11-26 14:29|| Front Page Top

#15 That was from PowerLine... the Mark Steyn nym is a hollow joke, a pun, a fabrication, a stain upon the very fabric of RB's (otherwise) beautiful pristine Blue Dress. A pox on nym-shifting swine! Lol. Sorry, got carried away. Now I'm over here.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 14:32|| 2006-11-26 14:32|| Front Page Top

#16 Not a fabrication. Steyn did write it, just not to RB. Apparently his taste hasn't risen this far.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 14:49|| 2006-11-26 14:49|| Front Page Top

#17 Lol - so YOU'RE the nym-shifting swine.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 14:52|| 2006-11-26 14:52|| Front Page Top

#18 As if you didn't know.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 15:10|| 2006-11-26 15:10|| Front Page Top

#19 Actually, until you piped up and Dave D confirmed, I didn't. And there we have the point.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 15:14|| 2006-11-26 15:14|| Front Page Top

#20 "Not a fabrication. Steyn did write it, just not to RB."

But by signing the comment as "Mark Steyn", you left the impression he did. DO NOT DO THAT.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-11-26 15:16|| 2006-11-26 15:16|| Front Page Top

#21 You're correct. Apologies tendered.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 15:18|| 2006-11-26 15:18|| Front Page Top

#22 Accepted.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-11-26 15:19|| 2006-11-26 15:19|| Front Page Top

#23 Mark me down with RJ and Dave... whatever the Euros do, or don't do, I can't see the US moving one finger to rescue the likes of the various Moslem "youts". Not after carbeques, and gang rapes, and rioting over Danish cartoons, and beating up on Jews and all the other things so widely reported on the 'burg. Not one damn finger, one damn rowboat. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

Maybe make popcorn, though.... ;-)

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2006-11-26 15:20|| www.sgtryker.com]">[www.sgtryker.com] 2006-11-26 15:20|| Front Page Top

#24 Don't take it personally, NS. I don't have a "thing" for you - no shit - believe it. Just have fun and be Nimble Spemble - without pissing on me, plz. I like your comments - you're one of the reasons I hang here. Honest.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 15:22|| 2006-11-26 15:22|| Front Page Top

#25 Problem is, Sgt. Mom, I can easily see a Democrat president, backed by a Democrat congress, doing such a fool thing-- and not only risking our soldiers' and sailors' lives to evacuate them, but evacuating them HERE. You'd be SHOCKED at the number of Bosnian Muslims in rural Iowa, thanks to BJ Clinton...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-11-26 15:24|| 2006-11-26 15:24|| Front Page Top

#26 .com,

Nothing personal taken. Lot's of miscommunication in this thread. Nothing I said was intended to be pissing on you. I thought as a Mod you had IP access and could tell who was who if you wanted to look. I missed you during your hiatus and am glad you're back, even without your photo album. It's not the same place without you.

I didn't really look at the nym as Dave D. did because I thought the link to Powerline made it clear. Dumb mistake on my part.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 15:35|| 2006-11-26 15:35|| Front Page Top

#27 NS, well, I was referring to an earlier time - and you've been scarce of late, so I connected the two. You did seem to be picking on me a week or three back. I'm happy to be wrong, lol.

Waay glad to be reconnected, believe me. Dunno how long it will last, there's something on the horizon. Hell, there's always something on the horizon, I guess, lol. ;-)

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 15:42|| 2006-11-26 15:42|| Front Page Top

#28 Clinton might have gotten away with giving refuge to Bosnian Moslems, because they were mostly seen as poor-pitiful-refugees, besides being pre 9-11. They had indifferent, to vaugely favorable advance press, so no one minded too much. The Euro-Moslems havn't anything like that, and the press about them is getting so awful, even in the usual MSM, I can't see a Democrat president thinking of it as a good move. They are going to behave so badly in the next couple of years that there'll be no way a Democrat administration will want to touch them with a ten-foot pole. Word is getting out, as much as the usual "news" tools try and divert attention, or tamp it down.

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2006-11-26 15:47|| www.sgtryker.com]">[www.sgtryker.com] 2006-11-26 15:47|| Front Page Top

#29 Something on my horizon, too. That's why I've been scarce.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 15:51|| 2006-11-26 15:51|| Front Page Top

#30 In addition to Steyn's excellent book, Peters should also read Clarie Berlinski's Menace in Europe and Bruce Bawer's While Europe Slept.

Signed George Will ... heehe he he he ... joke, no really, I'm kidding ... I'm not Mr. Will.

Posted by Lancasters Over Dresden 2006-11-26 15:54|| http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com]">[http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com] 2006-11-26 15:54|| Front Page Top

#31 Or anything by Oriana Fallaci, LOD, lol.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 16:00|| 2006-11-26 16:00|| Front Page Top

#32 Someone needs to check on Ralphie's retirement account. I bet it's full of Soddybucks.

Posted by SR-71 2006-11-26 16:05|| 2006-11-26 16:05|| Front Page Top

#33 F&&k horizons. I want pictures.

Posted by Shipman 2006-11-26 16:06|| 2006-11-26 16:06|| Front Page Top

#34 All gone, here, Ship. Bit bucket city. NS might be able to give you a thrill, though, lol.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 16:10|| 2006-11-26 16:10|| Front Page Top

#35 ex-JAG, fersher. Shipman? hmmmm, I don't think so.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 16:22|| 2006-11-26 16:22|| Front Page Top

#36 Aw, NS, you're sweet. I teach chemistry these days, so just let me know what thrills you more, pretty pictures or blowin shit up!

Posted by exJAG 2006-11-26 16:46|| 2006-11-26 16:46|| Front Page Top

#37 Somebody get the defibrillator.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-11-26 16:48|| 2006-11-26 16:48|| Front Page Top

#38 *sniff*

True love always makes me cry, lol.

Posted by .com 2006-11-26 16:49|| 2006-11-26 16:49|| Front Page Top

#39 Blowin shit up, please, exJAG. Daddy used to do that back when Israel was still Palestine, but he never, ever told any stories... ;-)

Hi, everyone! I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving, full of delicious food, happy times with friends and family, and a minimum of the annual fight with the unavoidable ass... and that y'all are looking forward to a clear slide straight into the joys of Christmas or other winter holiday of your choice! :-)

Posted by trailing wife 2006-11-26 16:53|| 2006-11-26 16:53|| Front Page Top

#40 Oh dear, NS. I've got a kilo of reagent-grade ammonium nitrate in the garage that ought to fix you right up. Been trying to figure out what to do with that. TM 31-210 has some splendid suggestions, but I'm pretty sure I'd get in trouble.

TW, I'd love to hear your dad's stories. Was he part of the Haganah? What a shame he never told, but I'm sure he had his reasons. I don't think I'd tell either.

Posted by exJAG 2006-11-26 17:12|| 2006-11-26 17:12|| Front Page Top

#41 Europe hasn't broken free of its historical addictions - we're going to see Europe's history reprised on meth.

Did someone say something about wasabi popcorn?

Posted by Excalibur 2006-11-26 18:10|| 2006-11-26 18:10|| Front Page Top

#42 Don't let Europe's current round of playing pacifist dress-up

Compare Romans of 3rd century BC and 3rd century AD, Mr Peters.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-11-26 18:29|| 2006-11-26 18:29|| Front Page Top

#43 Steyn doesn't post to Rantburg. He just mines it for material.

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2006-11-26 18:32|| 2006-11-26 18:32|| Front Page Top

#44 Maybe he gleans it for material.

Posted by wxjames 2006-11-26 19:09|| 2006-11-26 19:09|| Front Page Top

#45 "The historical patterns are clear: When Europeans feel sufficiently threatened - even when the threat's concocted nonsense - they don't just react, they over-react with stunning ferocity."

I notice how effectively a whole bunch of them reacted when ordered into the boxcars. Yeah, there were some reactions, but in all, too little, too late.

Posted by Procopius2k 2006-11-26 19:31|| 2006-11-26 19:31|| Front Page Top

#46 I suppose the one big difference is that if this time around Europe interns all of their Muslim population we won't have any problems with bombing the camps.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-11-26 20:47|| 2006-11-26 20:47|| Front Page Top

22:45 ErickWahne
23:45 Swamp Blondie
23:39 Swamp Blondie
23:29 Zenster
23:25 Glenmore
23:21 Anguper Hupomosing9418
23:06 Zenster
23:06 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:59 Silentbrick
22:56 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:52 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:48 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:45 ErickWahne
22:35 Chuck
22:26 Zenster
22:25 Hilaliburton Bondi Barbie Div.
22:09 Old Patriot
21:58 USN,Ret
21:57 USN,Ret
21:53 .com
21:52 USN,Ret
21:41 trailing wife
21:32 Frank G
21:30 Frank G