Article

2006-12-19 Arabia

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Posted by .com 2006-12-19 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Democraticization and terror eradication are not possible without the elimination of Shiite power. I believe it is in the plans. It better be.

Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2006-12-19 01:01|| 2006-12-19 01:01|| Front Page Top

#2 The mullahs making a bloody direct bid for Wahabbiland? Pass the popcorn.

Posted by JSU 2006-12-19 01:19|| 2006-12-19 01:19|| Front Page Top

#3 Next month, during the giant annual Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, the Saudi campaign to radicalize the Muslim world may come back to bite it in its ample rear. Hundreds of thousands of pilgrims will travel in from Iran, according to Amir Taheri's Sunday article in the New York Post, and they may stage demonstrations --- or possibly even a coup attempt --- in Saudi Arabia. Ten to twenty percent of the Iranians might be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's agents, making 20 to 40 thousand disciplined radicals amid the chaotic mobs of the Hajj.

Let me know when they start splodin'. We're talkin' some mega-trample action.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-19 02:13|| 2006-12-19 02:13|| Front Page Top

#4 mega-trample action.

LOL, oh I can't wait for it!

Posted by RD 2006-12-19 03:07|| 2006-12-19 03:07|| Front Page Top

#5 I hear ya, but chaos is always dangerous. It can spread, such as with the assination of Archduke Ferdinand, or cover up other events.

Posted by Bobby 2006-12-19 06:47|| 2006-12-19 06:47|| Front Page Top

#6 .com-

If Iran's little fanatical ruler Ahmadinejad can control Mecca and Medina, or even just keep the Saudis scared and intimidated, his vaunted new Caliphate comes a step closer.

....My understanding - and mind you it came through a Wahabbis filter - was that whoever controls Mecca and Medina really does control Islam, and to me that doesn't seem far off, given the Wahabbi influence on modern Islam.
The idea of the Iranians trying a takeover through the Hajj has been a fear for some years now, and may very well have been tried back in 1979. Were one of the two cities to fall out of Saudi control even briefly, that could be enough to push Those Wacky Sauds all the way off the throne.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-12-19 07:06|| 2006-12-19 07:06|| Front Page Top

#7 Mike K - Not sure... If they're intact, then I guess that's true. But the logistics say they won't be lost, IMHO. Let's play some what-if, lol.

Yup, loss of Mecca and/or Medina would be a huge loss of face, prestige, and ?control? since the King Thingy is called the Custodian of The Two Holy Moskkks - and to my knowledge that is his pre-eminent title. But a fall? Not sure...

Captured by someone, e.g. Shia woofs, would generate a mini-war, not a fall, IMHO. And without a massive collaboration within the Kingdom, would lose in a siege. The distance from Iran to Mecca, for example, is long, over open inhospitable terrain, and a supply line would also be indefensible without that IK support. The Shia are numerous in places, but not "strong". Unless Nayef "surrounds" everything, lol.

Destroyed by someone would be interesting. By whom prolly determines the reaction - and I'll bet you'd agree nothing is so conspiracy-driven and Byzantine as the Arab mind, lol. So guessing the response is almost pointless.

Denial of use - say by a dirty bomb or bio agent... Again, by whom I guess. Same as above.

So I don't see that as the trigger that causes their fall... simple unrest due to the inescapable demographics will prolly be the cause. When the chain of wasta falls apart because the greed and the demands can't both be met, then the cork is in the bottle and the heat will do the rest, methinks.

Woolgathering... If the House of Saud fell - then what? I only have some fuzzy notions, lol. There are some tribes who'd love to take over I'm sure, but I'm not sure who would prove the strong horse among the non-Royals if the Sauds vacated. Perhaps someone from the military, since that's the next most prestigious thingy in their hierarchy and, oh yeah, they gots the arms and transport. I'm sure your guesses would be equal or better.

Control of Aramco and the 40km strip would be the key, of course. Religion's got its funkiness for the zoomers, but the oil makes it all go... and that is vulnerable to just about anyone who wants to take a shot at it.

Sorry for being so windy.

BTW - the commentary belongs to Seafarious.

Posted by .com 2006-12-19 07:35|| 2006-12-19 07:35|| Front Page Top

#8 .com-

Not windy at all! Matter of fact, wish you and I could sit down over a brandy some time and trade Saudi stories. Re: your thoughts about who might take over - let me suggest the Bedouin, led by SANG officers. These guys are religiously strong without being too off the wall, they are almost all linked by family and strong friendship ties, and most importantly, the SANG has the guns and the knowledge to pull off a coup. The only problem there is that they'd ned help from the other services, and IIRC the senior commanders are all al-Sauds of one stripe or another. On the other hand, they could be quietly sat down and told, "When the day comes, just say 'Allah akbar' with us and nobody gets hurt"...and they might just go along with it.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-12-19 08:50|| 2006-12-19 08:50|| Front Page Top

#9 Two things. A Muslim country setting of a "dirty bomb" or something like it in Mecca would turn the entire Islamic world against that nation. Safe to say it would never happen.

Sauds running out of money? Don't think so, not even close. But then agian I'm not their banker.

But this whole idea of the Hajj being used as a sort of take over might not be to far off. Interesting chance happening. The areas around the Kaaba have historically been settings for rival mass blood baths.

Posted by Icerigger 2006-12-19 08:56|| 2006-12-19 08:56|| Front Page Top

#10 Democraticization and terror eradication are not possible without the elimination of ~~Shiite~~ Muslim power.

Fixed it.

Posted by mcsegeek1 2006-12-19 09:28|| 2006-12-19 09:28|| Front Page Top

#11 It would be poetic justice if the Bedu were to take over, lol.

I used to see 'em twice a year as they did their migration thing. One day there'd be nothing on a vacant lot, the next morning they're be this big-assed tent and a couple old craggy-looking fellas sitting out front sipping tea and smoking up a storm. There a few days, maybe a week, then gone.

I'm not sure my stories would measure up, lol. Both tours I was in Dhahran / al Khobar. This last tour I kept my head down and worked like a dog, saving every dime except for springing for a compound with a satellite connection, heh.

You were in Jeddah, right? You should hook up with GK - he was in Riyadh, IIRC. Now that had to suck, lol.

Posted by .com 2006-12-19 09:38|| 2006-12-19 09:38|| Front Page Top

#12 The Soddis defeated the Hashemites of Jordan to take the twin cities in 1919.

The Soddis provide heavy security for the Hajj and they have busted heads in the past. I'm not at all sure the Iranians could do more than create a finite amount of trouble.

This article does make the point I have been making for a number of years now. Given the choice of attacking the United States, Israel or Soddi, which would the Iranians see as more doable? The vast majority of the populace around the oil fields is Shi'a, and without those, the Soddis are nothing. A puppet Shi'a state containing the Soddi oil fields would hold a certain attractiveness to the Iranians, I suspect.

I agree that the actions of SANG would be the decive element in any political events in Soddi. They are the only real fighters and their loyalty is tribal, not religious. I would also suggest that any House of Saud reliance upon the Saudi armed forces would be misplaced. The term "fold like a wet noodle" comes to mind.

Posted by Chuck Simmins">Chuck Simmins 2006-12-19 10:31|| http://northshorejournal.org]">[http://northshorejournal.org] 2006-12-19 10:31|| Front Page Top

#13 Ahh the Festival of Seething soon to commence . Stones at the ready , and cardboard cutouts of GWB and TB at the ready . Uncontrollable crowds , check , Radical elements , check , Stones to hand , check , Innocent virgins to abuse , check , any excuse , check ...

Systems check ok .. Unload seething and spittle

Posted by MacNails 2006-12-19 10:48|| 2006-12-19 10:48|| Front Page Top

#14 #2 "The mullahs making a bloody direct bid for Wahabbiland? Pass the popcorn."

Damn! I've already got extra industrial poppers on backorder for the paleos. It'll probably be spring before I can get more for the "saudis."

They need to give a gal advance notice of impending festivities - give me time to prepare.

Damn inconsiderate self-centered bastards.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2006-12-19 11:23|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html] 2006-12-19 11:23|| Front Page Top

#15 In classic cold-war fashion, we should play these two rubes off one another.

Posted by bigim-ky 2006-12-19 11:31|| 2006-12-19 11:31|| Front Page Top

#16 whoever controls Mecca and Medina really does control Islam

Then it stands to reason that the West should consider taking the shrines hostage. Far better than nuking them would be to have Islam's crown jewels and the haj effectively held ransom against further terror attacks. I know this is blue-sky thinking but even if the Islamic world struggled to regain control of them, these two locations would represent the most bestest sheet of flypaper ever seen.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-19 13:10|| 2006-12-19 13:10|| Front Page Top

#17 Icerigger:

With all due respect, do you REALLY believe a dirty bomb going off in either/both of the "two most holiest cities in islam" would get blamed on muslims even though true? I can think of two other countries that would be blamed long before any muslim group or country would be blamed.

Hint: One country is large the other is very small.

Posted by Mark Z">Mark Z 2006-12-19 13:27|| 2006-12-19 13:27|| Front Page Top

#18 OOOO, OOOO! I know Teacher Mark:

What is the Great Satan and Little Satan for $100?

Posted by BA 2006-12-19 13:57|| 2006-12-19 13:57|| Front Page Top

#19 If I was India or China I would do it as the other two countries would get blamed and one could get some advantage out of the mess.

Posted by 3dc 2006-12-19 14:13|| 2006-12-19 14:13|| Front Page Top

#20 .com-

You were in Jeddah, right? You should hook up with GK - he was in Riyadh, IIRC. Now that had to suck, lol.

Actually, although I worked at Prince Sultan AB at al-Kharj about 90 minutes away from Riyadh, we stayed at the capital at a place caled Eskan Village - one of the huge 'condo cities' they built for the Bedou to live in, but never did. The place (Khobar Towers was one too) would have made a world class old folks' retirement village anywhere in the US. Did have a GREAT chow hall tho after the Army got thrown out. (Plus one marvelous Saturday night when the French Air Force guys took the place over and cooked for everybody.:) )

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-12-19 14:31|| 2006-12-19 14:31|| Front Page Top

#21 Mike K - I went into the Khobar Towers many times during my first tour (91-92). I used to help out with their 'puters and software issues. I also helped "steal" them a full set of the high quality Aramco maps. The shit the Saudi Govt provided them didn't show any of the myriad oil maint roads, for example. Heh, Aramco always had the best shit. I got to know a bunch of them - all USAF, of course, except for a few Army MPs.

That was a few years before the attack.

Did the Bedu shit in the swimming pool at Eskan Village? That was one of the first stories I heard when I first visited - the boggle factor was off the chart. I "explained" that the Bedu wouldn't sleep there cuz it would mean one man's feet would be above another man's head - unless they all agreed on what floor they were gonna use, lol. Western logic. Bedu logic: they blew the place off pretty quickly, pitching their tents on the lawns... except the swimming pool looked perfect for a gigantic latrine to them and, apparently, they availed themselves of it until it stunk, I guess, and moved on.

And Yep - they were really nice inside. IIUC, all of the things were the same throughout the country - and there were like 10 or 12 (?) of these complexes built. Typical Saudi thing - a total waste through Duh stupidity.

Posted by .com 2006-12-19 15:04|| 2006-12-19 15:04|| Front Page Top

#22 Setting sunni against shi'ite, unintentional or a secret Rovian plot?

Posted by anonymous2u 2006-12-19 15:19|| 2006-12-19 15:19|| Front Page Top

#23 Grab the Sacred Meteorite and melt it down for coinage. Israeli coinage.

Bwahaha...

Posted by mojo">mojo 2006-12-19 16:18|| 2006-12-19 16:18|| Front Page Top

#24 "For decades the Saudis have sent out money and missionaries to establish radical West-hating madrassas and mosques all over the world. Many American mosques are controlled by the Saudis, and Saudi-funded Muslim "civil rights" organizations peddle a carefully tailored PR campaign about Muslim victimization to the American sucker media. All this serves the Wahhabi creed.."

Sow to the wind, reap the whirlwind. Act in a way that produces "islamophobia", then complain about it & have dialogue with dhimmis to overcome it, as
below:

U.S. Government and American Muslims Engage to Define Islamophobia
Wed, 2006-12-20 01:49

By M. A. Muqtedar Khan

On December 4, 2006, the national leadership of American Muslims met with key senior U.S. government officials to discuss the state of Islamophobia in America and US Muslim relations. The conference was organized by the Bridging the Divide Initiative of Saban Center at the Brookings Institution. It was co-sponsored by the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding and the Association of Muslim Social Scientists.

As the conference chair of the program, the most extraordinary challenge that I faced was to bring together two parties that did not see eye to eye on this issue. While American Muslim leaders and participants were arguing that Islamophobia was not only a reality but rapidly increasing phenomenon in America, the governments position was that while there have been increased incidences of anti-Muslim episodes in the U.S., the word Islamophobia deepens the divide between the US and the Muslim world. Other representatives of the government also suggested that the fear that Muslims were referring to was not the fear of Islam but the fear of Muslim terrorism as manifest on September 11, 2001.

[...]

Islamophobia strikes deep - into your life it will creep. It gets you on a plane or a train.
Never sure when "Mo" come, and blow you away...

Posted by Whiskettes4Hilali 2006-12-19 19:11|| 2006-12-19 19:11|| Front Page Top

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