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2007-04-20 Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Israel To Ask US For F-22s
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Posted by mrp 2007-04-20 08:27|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 No f*ing way. Too poor a track record with selling US technology to our enemies.
Posted by Classical_Liberal 2007-04-20 10:10||   2007-04-20 10:10|| Front Page Top

#2 Exactly.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-04-20 10:27||   2007-04-20 10:27|| Front Page Top

#3 Build your own if you are so quick to sell our stuff. I support Israel, but number one comes first.

So no and fuck off.
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2007-04-20 10:29||   2007-04-20 10:29|| Front Page Top

#4 Seeing how they're opposing Arab air forces, they could probably control the skies over there with a couple of hundred P-51's...
Posted by tu3031 2007-04-20 10:32||   2007-04-20 10:32|| Front Page Top

#5 [OFF-TOPIC OR ABUSIVE COMMENTS DELETED]
Posted by sinse 2007-04-20 11:39||   2007-04-20 11:39|| Front Page Top

#6 On the other hand, the F-22 is a stealth aircraft that can be used as a ground attack aircraft. It could reach, say, Iran from Israel, without being detected.
Posted by Rambler">Rambler  2007-04-20 11:46||   2007-04-20 11:46|| Front Page Top

#7 Sell the 'export' version; the one with the built in spodeystuff if the gps says goofy things are happening. besides, if you just sell the airframe, all they have is a supersonic executive jet for an unscheduled airline. it needs the weapon system to do some good. trying to integrate that to the airframe would take some time and $$.
Posted by USN, Ret. 2007-04-20 12:08||   2007-04-20 12:08|| Front Page Top

#8 Sure. It'll take about 15 years to work through the contracts though. By then the Israelis will be able to buy the technology from Chinese spies.
Posted by Iblis 2007-04-20 12:16||   2007-04-20 12:16|| Front Page Top

#9 Israel can stuff it along with their technology pipeline to China. Tel Aviv must understand how badly it undermines their moral authority and political capital when they sell off America's technology to our enemies.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-20 12:50||   2007-04-20 12:50|| Front Page Top

#10 sorry for the newbie question, but which of our enemies did Israel sell our technology to?
Posted by sludge 2007-04-20 12:59||   2007-04-20 12:59|| Front Page Top

#11 China's Missile Imports and Assistance From Israel

China's missile-related imports and assistance from Israel have been a subject of particular concern in the United States because of worries that Israel may be providing China with "back door" access to controlled, sensitive US technology. For example, in the early 1990s, reports surfaced that Israel had secretly transferred information on the US Patriot missile system to China, in violation of Israel's promise to the United States not to transfer the Patriot technology to any third country. Although both China and Israel denied the allegations, US government sources concluded that it was almost certain that a transfer of technology (though not physical equipment) had taken place.

China is reportedly using the Patriot technology to improve its surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems and to develop countermeasures against the Patriot for its ballistic and cruise missiles; reports also indicated that China intended to sell these SAMs and enhanced missiles to other countries, possibly including Iran. Reports suggested various Israeli motives for the transfer: some suggested that Israel had traded Patriot information for information on China's missiles; others asserted that Israel's transfer of Patriot technology was intended to encourage China to curtail its sales of ballistic missiles to countries in the Middle East such as Syria and Iran.

In addition to the alleged Patriot technology transfer, Israel has allegedly supplied China with cruise missile technology, including sensitive US technology. Specifically, Israel is allegedly assisting China with the development of its YF-12A, YJ-62, and YJ-92 cruise missiles.

In September 1992, responding to US accusations that Israel sold China Patriot missile secrets, Chinese Foreign Minister Qian Qichen denied "that there had been any kind of military cooperation between Israel and China prior to the establishment of diplomatic relations."

Under U.S. pressure, Israel backed out of a deal with China, potentially valued at $1 billion, in July of 2000. Under the deal, Israel would have outfitted three Chinese Il-76 planes with Phalcon radars. The United States believed the deal would tip the strategic balance against Taiwan. Chinese authorities responded harshly and demanded return of their deposit and compensation. In the Spring of 2002, Israel agreed to pay a reported $300 million to put an end to the dispute over the cancellation.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-20 14:07||   2007-04-20 14:07|| Front Page Top

#12 sludge:sorry for the newbie question, but which of our enemies did Israel sell our technology to?

China

Here's one link. google "israel lavi china" for lots more.
Posted by xbalanke 2007-04-20 14:08||   2007-04-20 14:08|| Front Page Top

#13 China
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-04-20 14:14||   2007-04-20 14:14|| Front Page Top

#14 crap...shoulda refreshed...sorry
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-04-20 14:15||   2007-04-20 14:15|| Front Page Top

#15 "Under U.S. pressure, Israel backed out of a deal with China, potentially valued at $1 billion, in July of 2000. Under the deal, Israel would have outfitted three Chinese Il-76 planes with Phalcon radars. The United States believed the deal would tip the strategic balance against Taiwan. Chinese authorities responded harshly and demanded return of their deposit and compensation. In the Spring of 2002, Israel agreed to pay a reported $300 million to put an end to the dispute over the cancellation."

Note, that at least in more recent years the Israelis have stuck more strictly to the rules. 1992 was before the more recent flareups with Taiwan, and its just a tad misleading to read the later political situation with China back that far.

Anyway,the Japanese are first in line for the F22 for export, right?
Posted by liberalhawk 2007-04-20 15:23||   2007-04-20 15:23|| Front Page Top

#16 So far, according to what I have heard from the air force guys, the F-22 is not slated for export. The F-35 will have the export technology in it. This could change in the future, especially under a new administration. But for the moment, the F-22 is a US only aircraft.
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2007-04-20 16:01||   2007-04-20 16:01|| Front Page Top

#17 1992 was before the more recent flareups with Taiwan, and its just a tad misleading to read the later political situation with China back that far.

How so? China consistently has sought to circumvent advanced military technology export bans put in place after the Tiananmen Square Massacre. Collusion with Israel is only a visible facet of an overall policy of subverting, stealing or covertly acquiring high-tech military hardware. In no way has China reduced its threat profile. Continued support of North Korea destabilizes the entire Northeast Asian Quadrant and their unprecedented military buildup is encouraging a second Cold War. Concentration of missiles opposite Taiwan belies any commitments to regional peace. Sales of armaments to Iran and other rogue regimes puts the entire Middle East at risk. Massive hydroelectric projects along the Mekong River's headwaters pose a danger to several Southeast Asian nations. China's persistent theft of intellectual property, utter disregard for international patents and piracy of trademarks in counterfeit goods make them an economic pariah. Nowhere has there been the least deviation from this pattern over the last several decades.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-20 16:11||   2007-04-20 16:11|| Front Page Top

#18 The above leaves out any mention of China dazzling our reconnaisance satellites, development of anti-satellite technology nor the wholly unacceptable pollution of earth orbit with debris from their latest anti-satellite weapons test. Some 150,000 pieces of detectable shrapnel now pose a direct threat to manned and unmanned orbital platforms. China has been totally irresponsible in their conduct and require stiff upbraiding by the international community.

Need I go on about China's massive contribution to acid rain and ecological devastation in the region?
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-20 16:17||   2007-04-20 16:17|| Front Page Top

#19 Phalcon/Lavi are american technology, Zenster?
Posted by gromgoru 2007-04-20 17:50||   2007-04-20 17:50|| Front Page Top

#20 No, where do I mention them? xbalanke brought those topics up. My post refers to the Patriot Missile technology. The Phalcon AWACS system is mentioned in my posted article but only as an example of how Israel's dealings with China threaten to destabilize the ongoing detente regarding Taiwan.

If Israel insists upon being so damned mercenary, they are going to make themselves into a pariah. That's a very unpromising change to their already beleaguered status in the Middle East. In light of America's stolid support for Israel it is immensely ungrateful of them to be hawking off advanced weapons to our declared enemies.

Even more ironic is how China reverse engineers this technology and immediately sells it to Israel's most hated foes, like Iran. There is a limit to the value of money if the getting of it speeds your own doom.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-20 18:25||   2007-04-20 18:25|| Front Page Top

#21 Just 90% of it, Gromguru. The United States and the LAVI
Before the project was terminated, the US would set far-reaching precedents in the areas of FMS and technology transfer and would finance over 90 percent of the Lavi's development costs.
Posted by ed 2007-04-20 18:38||   2007-04-20 18:38|| Front Page Top

#22 The Phalcon includes US technology. Israel had to get US permission to sell three Phalcons to India.
The first IL-76 is slated to arrive in India this year. The IAF already wants three more.




Posted by John Frum 2007-04-20 19:10||   2007-04-20 19:10|| Front Page Top

#23 WAFF > JAPAN really Really REALLY wants to purchase 100 F22's in $30.0Bilyuuuhn contract wid USA; + BBC/IHT.com > CHINESE RIVALS FIGHT FOR PACIFIC - China vz Taiwan for most part, down South Pacific ways near Australia-NZ. Considering that China had also announced a few weeks back it wants to build mil base(s) in the area to offset USA-Britain, LOOKS LIKE INDIA ISN'T THE ONLY US-BRIT PARTNER BEING OUTFLANKED ON LAND AND SEA BY CHINA.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-04-20 22:09||   2007-04-20 22:09|| Front Page Top

23:50 JosephMendiola
23:45 RD
23:34 trailing wife
23:33 Zenster
23:30 Zenster
23:30 RWV
23:28 RD
23:22 RWV
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:10 Frank G
23:03 RD
22:57 USN, ret.
22:55 Frank G
22:52 JosephMendiola
22:50 Ho Chi Snusoper4439
22:49 RD
22:44 Grunter
22:39 JosephMendiola
22:36 Anonymoose
22:27 JosephMendiola
22:24 RD
22:20 Zenster
22:20  KBK
22:18 Zenster









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