Article

2007-06-13 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Muzzie Gras Celebrations Continue in Gaza

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Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2007-06-13 05:14|| || Front Page|| [10 views ] Top

#1 Another PA official expressed deep concern over Hamas's success in taking control of several Palestinian security installations. He revealed that Hamas managed to lay its hands on large amounts of weapons belonging to the Fatah-controlled security forces in many parts of the Gaza Strip.

"They have seized thousands of rifles, large amounts of ammunition and dozens of vehicles, including armored jeeps," he said. "This is really bad news for all."

That's what I said yesterday. I would even posit that the *presence* of all the extra arms-n-ammo is what set off this round of the festivities.

Stupid State Department.

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2007-06-13 07:10|| 2007-06-13 07:10|| Front Page Top

#2 Brutality beyond belief against palestinians. Torture, then murder. These palestinians are suffering terribly.

Except it isn't Israel doing it. What I want to know is, how do the pali-sympathizers reconcile all of this? If pali violence is simply a response to a brutal, oppressive Israeli regime, how do they explain this carnage?

Frankly, I find all of this very revealing. All Hamas and Fatah had to do was reach an accomodation in Gaza. Here we have two Muslim groups seeking a state -- overall similar goals, with a set of political and religious differences to work through. Certainly, these differences are no where near those that separate Israel and the Arabs.

Yet they wind up killing each other instead.

I believe they do this for one or two reasons:

1. there seems to be a sort of Arab fantasy that they will get all they want, perhaps because allah wills it or because of some other culturaly malady. Al Qaeda expect a caliphate in their future. palis expect an Arab state to the Med with no Jews. Sharia in the UK.
2. Along with this fantasy is an inability to compromise. Perhaps this is because it's not acceptable in their culture. Perhaps it's simply that they just don't know how. Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis in Iraq? No way. Palis and Israel? Fuggedaboudit. And of course, insulting the Profit (sic) is a capital crime, while daily intolerance of any other religions is the norm.

And they're expected to "negotiate" with Israel? Please!

So, back to the issue of pali-sympathizers. How can they possibly explain this violence without saying something about the character of the palestinian people? I expect they'll simply say nothing.

And blame Israel

Posted by PlanetDan">PlanetDan 2007-06-13 09:42|| 2007-06-13 09:42|| Front Page Top

#3 Dan, I'll add a third potential reason to your two: from birth Paleos are indoctrinated in a culture of hate, tribalism, religious mysticism that is strongly reminiscent of the Thuggee cult, and self-loathing. It's no wonder they'll fight anyone.

And a fourth potential reason: Gaza is over-crowded. It's like having too many rats in a cage, at some point they're going to tear each other to pieces. Gaza wasn't meant to support one and a half million people.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-06-13 10:49|| 2007-06-13 10:49|| Front Page Top

#4 And I will meet your four and raise you one. Not only are we dealing with overcrowding, but overcrowding with nothing useful and productive to do. No good role models. Death by suicide is a prized value.

It is a death cult. If Israel was dismantled tomorrow, and the Paleos got their state, factions would still be killing each other for some perceived advantage.

Why we give aid, and especially arms to such a sick society is beyond me. They still need to bottom out before they head up. Some people do and some never make it. Go over to the MEMRI site and get a feel how deeply psychotic and twisted this society is.

Unfortunately, the Paleo society is like a car with a bent frame. You can pour a fortune into it, but when it is driven around, it still acts like a car with a bent frame.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-06-13 12:27|| 2007-06-13 12:27|| Front Page Top

#5 re population density

Singapore and Hong Kong are densely populated and they don't have Gaza problems.

Posted by mhw 2007-06-13 12:43|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2007-06-13 12:43|| Front Page Top

#6 You can't devalue life and promote things like martyrdom, deception, and pointless "resistance" in a society without this being the end result. It took a while to mature, but this is it folks. When they can't beat the jooos, they simply turn the guns on themselves. Look to the EUnicks to shake their heads in disbelief, but to keep the money flowing for lack of any other ideas. That is the liberal mindset, throw more money at the problem and boggle at the result.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2007-06-13 13:01|| 2007-06-13 13:01|| Front Page Top

#7 sea:

I think that what caused the start was the fact that Hamas was starting to be outmaneuvered politically, and that Mo Dahlan, the Fatah military and political leader in Gaza, was in a Cairo hospital recovering from a leg injury.

This was the time for Hamas to strike, before the window closed. Did it make sense to give Fatah weapons? I dunno, remember when the Left fought against giving ARVN weapons in 1974-75, and then ARVN lost? We may have the same debate wrt to Iraq soon.

No one thought Fatah would be hurt this bad relative to Hamas, and I certainly havent seen anyone HERE make predictions to that effect. In any case its not clear how much has been taken, or how important it is in the overall scheme.

I can say its NOT good that Fatah is losing, or that Hamas is winning. The attrition from this phase is unlikely to hurt Hamas much, unless Fatah does turn things around, and its not clear they are capable of that.

If Hamas does takeover Gaza, what are everyones fall back positions? Israel still doesnt have to strike at Gaza as long as the Qassams do so little damage. Fatah can attempt a guerilla war against Hamas, complete with IEDs, suicide bombers, the whole nine yards. Fatah can cleanse the West Bank of Hamas.

Israel can negotiate with Abbas about short term issues - "quality of life" stuff. Probably cant do a long term deal, if he isnt seen as being able to speak for Pals as delivering an end to the conflict.

The military wing and Mashal probably make Haniyeh superflous on the Hamas side, unless they want him for window dressing for the euros et al.

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-06-13 13:04|| 2007-06-13 13:04|| Front Page Top

#8 #2: "How do the pali-sympathizers reconcile all of this?"

Let me introduce you to the two Rules to Live By for the pali-~~wankers~~sympathizers, Dan:

1. It's always Isreal's fault.

2. It it doesn't appear to be Israel's fault, see Rule #1.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2007-06-13 17:47|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2007-06-13 17:47|| Front Page Top

#9 No one thought Fatah would be hurt this bad relative to Hamas, and I certainly havent seen anyone HERE make predictions to that effect.

Predictions are for the very wise or the very foolish. However - it has been noted here in the past that the West Bank and Gaza are essentially two separate entities, and that the likelihood of them becoming discrete 'nations' was advanced.

In any case its not clear how much has been taken, or how important it is in the overall scheme.

Throwing out two conjectures:

1. The Iranians/Syrians are trying to establish another front at best (or distraction, at least) for when Hesb'allah starts round two with Israel.

2. The Iranians/Syrians are trying to establish a distraction for Israel for when Hesb'allah moves to take control of Lebanon.

Posted by Pappy 2007-06-13 21:08|| 2007-06-13 21:08|| Front Page Top

#10 Let's throw out the false notion that overcrowding leads to violence. The highest density populations are Monaco (6X), Macau (4.5X), Hong Kong (1.5X, much higher in urban), Singapore (1.5X, much higher in urban), all doing very well. It's their murderous muslim religion and genocidal indoctrination that account for their failures and first resort to murder. The 2,500 remaining trapped Christians in Gaza are treated worse, by the muslims themselves, yet don't engage in this savagery.

Gaza density is 10,575/mile2 (2005 Britannica) while Manhattan is 66,940/mile2 and was as high as 120,000/mile2 a hundred years ago. Instead of Manhattan exploding like a lemming breeding colony, muslims travel there to commit mass murder in the name of allah.

Posted by ed 2007-06-13 21:53|| 2007-06-13 21:53|| Front Page Top

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