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2007-08-05 Afghanistan
Afghanistan Poppy Cultivation Skyrockets
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Posted by Steve White 2007-08-05 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ]  Top
 File under: Taliban 

#1 This is a fine record. Every since we've been pushing the Talibs away, just one record crop follows another. Do we not still have the recipe for Agent Orange? It has a proven record and I'm sure a coupla passes at one week intervals would shrink the poppy petals into shriveled, dry nothings. Why aren't we using it ?
Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-08-05 00:21||   2007-08-05 00:21|| Front Page Top

#2 As the article notes, Wooz, it would drive a lot of the people there into the arms of the Talibunnies. Sometimes your choices aren't good ones.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2007-08-05 02:31||   2007-08-05 02:31|| Front Page Top

#3 For how much money we piss away on the spectacularly unsuccessful War on Drugs, wouldn't it be cheaper just to go in and buy the entire crop at some incredibly overpriced rate that the Mafias will not pay? Take the crap and burn it or sell it at a loss to hospices and drug manufacturers.

Enough of this pissing and moaning about a drug that only the most imbecilic lunatic would bother to ingest. Hell, follow the European model where they dispense it free to the existing addict population and let them kill themselves off. Think how the Mafia would take it in the shorts big time if an entire Afghan opium crop was taken off of the market in one fell swoop.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 02:43||   2007-08-05 02:43|| Front Page Top

#4 We cannot go on supporting Karzai. At least twice, he has attacked NATO bombing of targets where his beloved Pashto drug dealers reside. And he directs his troops - and their NATO allies - away from the poppy fields. In stark contrast, there is major poppy eradication being done in the other growers region, north of Kabul.
And Karzai is favoring his Pashtos, even though Taliban gets its 10% take of heroin revenues.

Prior to Taliban, Afghanistan exported raw opium; now it is a major heroin producer. Under our watch, Helmand District is supplying the bulk of the European market. US supplies come from Sinaloa, Mexico, and the Far East.

We don't need this crap one bit. When the full story gets out, the Hillarys and Obamas are going to feast on this issue. Whether we do a Somoza on Karzai, or whatever, he is toast.
Posted by McZoid 2007-08-05 03:03||   2007-08-05 03:03|| Front Page Top

#5 Solution:

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/misc/2006/Defoliation_agent_spraying.jpg
Posted by Besoeker 2007-08-05 04:18||   2007-08-05 04:18|| Front Page Top

#6 They're capitalist. They want to make money to feed their families and make life a little better for them. Build friggin bio-mass gas processing plants in Afghanistan and start making fuel. At least you'll get more than paying US farmers for not planting crops as done for generations.
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-08-05 08:01||   2007-08-05 08:01|| Front Page Top

#7 Maybe the problem is on the demand side and not the supply side. If the price of heroin dropped, I suspect these farmers would grow something else. So who's the final buyer of all this horse and how do we break 'em? Focusing on demand is how China killed the pium trade. Give repression a chance.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-08-05 08:32||   2007-08-05 08:32|| Front Page Top

#8 I find it interesting that the Afghans account for 95% of the world crop and most of it goes to Europe.

So why is this our problem, again? Let the EUniks take care of it - if they want to.
Posted by Bobby 2007-08-05 09:35||   2007-08-05 09:35|| Front Page Top

#9 Lets hear it for nation building!
Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-05 10:19||   2007-08-05 10:19|| Front Page Top

#10 We've got 3 ideas on the board.
1. Agent orange.
2. Buy the entire crop.
3. Intercept the incoming buyers.
Number one is easy, and number three may be quite difficult. If we could control the market by intercepting the buyers, that would be the way to go with this, but I don't think we can. So, number 1 it is with an offer to make financial arrangements to support the farm with crop changes from here on out.
We simply cannot allow this crop to reach the customers.
Posted by wxjames 2007-08-05 13:22||   2007-08-05 13:22|| Front Page Top

#11 So, number 1 it is with an offer to make financial arrangements to support the farm with crop changes from here on out.
We simply cannot allow this crop to reach the customers.

wxjames, from all appearances it seems you meant to go with the second suggestion, which I made. If so, I thank you for including the crop change out cycle. It was something I was musing on as well. Unfortunately, poppies pay more than any other normal bulk agricultural crop so there are few alternatives.

As Steve noted, we probably do not want to drop the hammer on this right now because it will polarize things during a most fragile period. The article's crop worth estimate of 38 billion dollars probably breaks down to the final sale price of 90% diluted street bags so I'd think the entire crop could be bought for a few billion. We spend that much in a month or two in Iraq so diverting this crop with a small expenditure makes a whole lot of sense.

The big issue is finding an incentive to make the farmers change crops. I have little doubt that poppy corruption reaches to the very highest levels in Afghanistan's government. That sort of money usually creates the same narco-politics seen in Columbia. We need to figure out some sort of really high value crop (i.e., specialty spices or herbs, cashmere goats, angora rabbits, artisan rugs, etc.) and put in place mechanisms for change over and, eventually, adequate law enforcement to interdict the flow.

While Bobby makes an important point regarding this being Europe's problem, they will do absolutely squat about it. We need to choke off the numerous layers of criminal enterprise that profit from all this human misery. That profit reaches our shores via Russian mafias, bankrolled by overseas operations. In truth, Nimble Spemble has the real solution. Buy the crop and distribute to our nation's junkie population. Make heroin so cheap that the bottom drops out of the market. The reduced crime rates, lower incarceration levels and decreased confinement costs would probably pay for the whole operation. Sadly, our nation still has many lingering Puritanical issues over such an apparently hedonistic approach.

As I mentioned before, if people want to blow their brains out with one of the most addictive and dangerous drugs there is to use, I say let 'em. There's no stopping addicted humans from getting their fix. Provide ready rehab and counseling at the distribution points along with fresh needles and supervised consumption areas. This would also reduce the spread of AIDS, hepatitis and a host of other needle-related diseases.

Not pretty? Try touring a "shooting gallery" sometime. You'll swear God's on vacation when you do. Human beings are unsurpassed at self-inflicting the worst sorts of misery in their lives. They are also one of the most clever species at thwarting the efforts of everything short of a police state. This is proven in both Afghanistan and here at home. It's time to rethink our drink.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 14:43||   2007-08-05 14:43|| Front Page Top

#12 I believe I've been misinterpreted. My solution is capital punishment for all those found with heroin on their person or in their blood stream. No parole, no appeal, no exception. In the absence of imposing this sentence judicially, I suggest tainting the product with poison as early in the process and as often as possible. If these junkies want to die early, why not let the government help?

The only other workable alternative is legalization. Frankly, I'm indifferent.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-08-05 16:23||   2007-08-05 16:23|| Front Page Top

#13 John Deer has a solution, and it's green.
Posted by Heriberto Ulusomble6667 2007-08-05 17:42||   2007-08-05 17:42|| Front Page Top

#14 The only other workable alternative is legalization.

Didn't mean to misinterpret you, NS, but per your suggestions, legalization—in the absence of murdering a portion of our population with government collusion—is one of the only ways to remove the profit motive that drives organized crime. Be sure that such a program would have to undergo restrictions and prohibitions that'd make alcohol regulation look like licensing a cotton candy booth. Eliminating any capital gain remains one of the only ways to exclude criminal elements.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 18:23||   2007-08-05 18:23|| Front Page Top

#15 My solution is capital punishment for all those found with heroin on their person or in their blood stream. No parole, no appeal, no exception.

So, a young prostitute who has been unwillingly injected with heroin by her pimp in order to make her complaint—that runs to the police—should be executed? A youth at a party who unknowingly smokes a joint laced with powdered heroin should be given the needle? Welcome to Singapore.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 18:26||   2007-08-05 18:26|| Front Page Top

#16 We need to help Afghan farmers find alternatives to poppy and keep the Taleban from forcing them to grow it. Spirit of America is trying to help them to grow other crops like saffron.
Posted by Cromert 2007-08-05 18:36||   2007-08-05 18:36|| Front Page Top

#17 The solution is simple: tell the Afghan farmer that we will guarantee him a profit for any crop except poppies. Also tell him that if he raises poppies, we will come in and destroy his entire crop, and he gets nothing. Start moving troops and equipment into areas within the poppy cultivation area, and crack down HARD on the talibunnies. Shoot Karzai if he pitches a tantrum. We're in this da$$ed war for OUR good, not theirs, and it's about time our prerequisites are met, not some stupid "let's all go along to get along" bull. Oh, and pack the entire State department, Condi and all, up and ship them to Afghanistan for several 'brutal Afghan winters'. Those that survive MAY get the chance to come home...

Our whole problem with the islamic mind is that we're too nice. They don't respect nice, they only respect power. Time to show them who's the meanest, nastiest SOBs on the planet unless people do things that don't make us angry.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2007-08-05 19:07|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2007-08-05 19:07|| Front Page Top

#18  Spirit of America is trying to help them to grow other crops like saffron.

Which is a great choice. At a retail cost of $1,000 per pound, the wholesale price could easily rival what the farmers receive for their raw tar. Also, saffron is a prized spice throughout the entire Islamic world and therefore does not carry any implications of appeasing the West or being forced to rely upon its consumption of the crop.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 19:18||   2007-08-05 19:18|| Front Page Top

#19 Zenster, I said not appeal, not no trial.

We have a bunch of junkies in our midst who will do anything for an illegal fix. So they steal and do whatever necessary to meet the demands of the crooks who supply them. To fix this problem we have to bomb the crop of an Afghan farmer with Agent Orange!

It's crazy. The problem is not the farmer in Afghanistan. It's the junkie here and our unwillingness to let him shoot up. One of those things needs to change. Then, when the profit disappears, all the middle men will disappear. Until then, there's still a dollar to be made by those so stupid they get in the drug business.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-08-05 20:32||   2007-08-05 20:32|| Front Page Top

#20 So, a young prostitute who has been unwillingly injected with heroin by her pimp in order to make her complaint—that runs to the police—should be executed? A youth at a party who unknowingly smokes a joint laced with powdered heroin should be given the needle? Welcome to Singapore.

Funny how you're up to making exceptions when it's drugs, but not when it comes to muslims...
Posted by Pappy 2007-08-05 20:44||   2007-08-05 20:44|| Front Page Top

#21 #12 Been tried in China with opium addiction---didn't work.
Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-05 20:46||   2007-08-05 20:46|| Front Page Top

#22 Funny how you're up to making exceptions when it's drugs, but not when it comes to muslims...

That's because drugs do orders less magnitude of harm compared to Muslims.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 21:31||   2007-08-05 21:31|| Front Page Top

#23 I said not appeal, not no trial.

Cool beans. Thank you for making that important clarification.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 21:32||   2007-08-05 21:32|| Front Page Top

#24 Zen, re #22.... may not seem like that at present time and someone can pull out stats that would present drug abuse as far more dangerous in the present context. That being said... people can get off drugs. But say you live in an Islamic state and try to get off Islam. Authorities would facilitate your wish expediently and terminally.

God forbid the Islam with its sharia jurisprudence should win... then the drug problem would seem like a no problem at all.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-08-05 21:51||   2007-08-05 21:51|| Front Page Top

#25 God forbid the Islam with its sharia jurisprudence should win... then the drug problem would seem like a no problem at all.

Thank you. I rest my case.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-08-05 22:27||   2007-08-05 22:27|| Front Page Top

#26 Zwilniks!
Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-05 22:55||   2007-08-05 22:55|| Front Page Top

23:57 Zenster
23:56 Zenster
23:56 Jonathan
23:51 Verlaine
23:50 Zenster
23:48 Zenster
23:43 Zenster
23:43 twobyfour
23:41 tipper
23:40 twobyfour
23:40 Adriane
23:38 Richard Aubrey
23:32 Pappy
23:21 Pappy
22:56 Clealing Bluetooth4471
22:55 gromgoru
22:43 Old Patriot
22:43 Clealing Bluetooth4471
22:39 Zenster
22:36 Mullah Richard
22:30 Super Hose
22:27 Zenster
22:26 Super Hose
22:18 3dc









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