Article

2007-08-17 Iraq

U.S. forces attack Iraqi 'mosque' after soldier killed by RPG from mosque

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Posted by Seafarious 2007-08-17 15:48|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top
File under: Iraqi Insurgency

#1 A US soldier dies again for a PC correct rule.

Posted by 3dc 2007-08-17 16:04|| 2007-08-17 16:04|| Front Page Top

#2 Why "attack" the mosque and risk more of our soldiers' lives? Call in an airstrike or artillery to level the damned pisshole along with everyone inside of it.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-17 16:27|| 2007-08-17 16:27|| Front Page Top

#3 Yeah...like Zen said!

Posted by Ho Chi Threrese8236 2007-08-17 16:31|| 2007-08-17 16:31|| Front Page Top

#4 Because, Zen, you flatten the place, you end up making enemies out of the entire neighborhood - and getting a ton more soldiers killed as they have to sort out the hood for the next 6 months. Or I suppose you'd say kill all them too, huh?

Think it through. Mindlessly blowing shit up is stupid if you don't think through the consequences.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-08-17 17:50|| 2007-08-17 17:50|| Front Page Top

#5 So Spook, what's your answer? They just keep doing this sh*t and it ain't gonna stop while they can get away with it.

Love to hear your plan.

Posted by Hupomble Fillmore7347 2007-08-17 18:13|| 2007-08-17 18:13|| Front Page Top

#6 A Hellfire hits the roof and the mosque is still standing? Was it defective?

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-08-17 18:17|| 2007-08-17 18:17|| Front Page Top

#7 I'll offer a plan. I'm not military, but I think I can noodle this one out.

OPSEC requires that this be done quietly with no advance warning.

H-hour is about 0500. Surround the mosque with a cordon of Iraqi Army troops leavened with a few US advisors. No one in, no one out. Vehicles stay away.

Put a UAV overhead -- two -- and make sure the data stream works.

Get the local mayor on board to help with the PR effort with the citizens. The PR effort is mounting AFTER the operation but needs to be planned in ADVANCE.

Iraqi army special forces and US Marines/Rangers lead the way. You have LOTS of manpower for this. You have an Apache loitering nearby if you need that kind of firepower. Your people arrive in Bradleys and Strykers to augment firepower. That helps make the cordon something no one wants to mess with.

No warning. Doorknockers gain entry. All doors are opened (not blown, opened) at once. IA leads the way inside to ensure that no one gets too upset at infidels inside. Everyone inside gets one chance to throw his mitts in da air and come out. Forfeit the chance and you forfeit your life.

Real important -- this is methodical, careful, basic infantry work. Our guys KNOW how to do this. There's no need to blow the place up; you take it apart carefully, grab the bad guys and use the intel. Anyone shoots, you flatten them.

Clear the mosque a room at a time. IA leads, US forces advise and follow. Everything is searched, and you look for hidden weapons caches, etc.

Operation ends successfully. Bad guys are hauled away, mayor gets the keys to the mosque, PR campaign starts, and IA/US forces do their after-action review.

That's how I'd do it.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-08-17 18:31|| 2007-08-17 18:31|| Front Page Top

#8 If Islam is a religion of peace, then any site from which shots are fired, cannot be a bona fide mosque. Still CAIR berates US counterattacks. Then again they insist that ALL the Gitmo detainees are muslims. US security first!

Posted by McZoid 2007-08-17 18:51|| 2007-08-17 18:51|| Front Page Top

#9 Because, Zen, you flatten the place, you end up making enemies out of the entire neighborhood

With all due respect, OldSpook, I'll argue that. Recent events have sufficiently polarized the average Iraqi citizen against terrorists towhat I'd like to think isa sufficient degree whereby it would no longer garner so much public opprobium if a jihadist hive got demolished.

Of course, such a concept relies heavily upon a simple and highly cost effective tactic that the current administration has ignored completely: Namely, you leaflet the entire neighborhood and carefully explain how and why their local mosque needed a complete remodeling job. Let's look back into the article:

the Sunni Arab mosque

The U.S. combat outpost had been repeatedly attacked by gunmen in the mosque since May, he added.

A.) It's a Sunni mosque. Right about now, they're not the most popular kids on the block.

B.) This taurine fecal matter has been going on for many months. Somehow, I doubt that this escaped any notice by the locals.

Combine the two and it's pretty safe to say that a major retaliation would only be decried by the usual suspects.

Or I suppose you'd say kill all them too, huh?

PS: You can lay off the exceedingly tiresome and thoroughly disproven "kill 'em all" meme anytime. Either that or start providing some cites and links.

Steve, compare the cost of your operation with lobbing in a few shells or missiles. Yes, I'll admit that your method would gather more intelligence. I still maintain that leveling the place would serve substantially towards pour encourager les autres.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-17 20:32|| 2007-08-17 20:32|| Front Page Top

#10 Leveling the Moskkk feels better than it works.

It does a good job of getting the bad guys, but it also acts as a punitive measure against the locals. The problem with that, is that it amounts to nothing more than stirring the ant hill. Its already well established that this type of punitive measure doesn't work in Iraq. Argueably, for punitive measures to work there, they would have to be monsterously punitive and we, as a nation, are not willing to do that. Which leaves us with only one option. Conventional COIN: Working with the locals and bringing them to your side. (at least while you need them)

Posted by Mike N. 2007-08-17 21:05|| 2007-08-17 21:05|| Front Page Top

#11 Hell, we could have our 'cake' and eat it also; leave the building standing, just liquidate the life...One mini neutron warhead would do the trick; the ones with the self 'melting' shell, "wink-wink"! Those who KNOW, know what I'm talking about! But Oh, if your going to keep it a secret, than use the damn thing!!!

Posted by smn 2007-08-17 21:37|| 2007-08-17 21:37|| Front Page Top

#12 Working with the locals and bringing them to your side.

Fer cripe's sake, Mike N., there's no "bringing them to your side". Do you even understand that? America represents Law based upon human decision and election. Islam is wholely founded upon Koranic dictates and nothing else, period. Permitting people to self-govern is an outright abomination to Muslims, are we clear?

I'll try to come back and address your other points, but this one is entirely overriding.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-17 21:54|| 2007-08-17 21:54|| Front Page Top

#13 Argueably, for punitive measures to work there, they would have to be monsterously punitive and we, as a nation, are not willing to do that.

How does thatin any waydisqualify the need for "monsterously punitive" measures? In case no one has noticed, this is what will be required to get Islam's collective attention.

It's like the farmer who sells a stranded salesman his prize mule so he can ride it into town. The salesman hops into the saddle anddespite his "gees" and "gaws"gets precisely nowhere.

After half an hour of this nonsense, the salesman demands his money back from the farmer. The old geezer walks up to the obstinant mule and slams down an arm's length of two by four squarely in between its beady eyes. While the mule staggers blindly about the farm's courtyard, the farmer tells the salesman, "First you have to get his attention."

WE HAVE YET TO GET ISLAM'S ATTENTION.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-17 22:05|| 2007-08-17 22:05|| Front Page Top

#14 The problem with that, is that it amounts to nothing more than stirring the ant hill.

Mike N., you're dangerously close to the "killing terrorists only creates more terrorists" meme. I doubt that this is your intention but I hope you'll drop in and explain it away. Or not.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-17 22:14|| 2007-08-17 22:14|| Front Page Top

#15 Nothing sez the imams are immune to roadside bombs or 7.62x54.

Posted by ed 2007-08-17 22:30|| 2007-08-17 22:30|| Front Page Top

#16 Yo! Mike, OldSpook, nuthin' to say?

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-17 23:05|| 2007-08-17 23:05|| Front Page Top

#17 stuff a sock in it. Jeebus

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-08-17 23:24|| 2007-08-17 23:24|| Front Page Top

23:55 SteveS
23:24 Frank G
23:05 Zenster
23:05 CrazyFool
23:03 Zenster
22:34 Muggsy
22:30 ed
22:24 BA
22:19 Zenster
22:15 ed
22:14 Zenster
22:09 GORT
22:05 Zenster
21:59 trailing wife
21:56 smn
21:54 Zenster
21:51 BA
21:37 smn
21:36 Zenster
21:28 3dc
21:26 doc
21:24 ed
21:19 Iblis
21:18 RWV