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2007-09-12 Olde Tyme Religion

Mormon Church Expresses Regret On 150th Anniversary Of The Mountain Meadows Massacre

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Posted by Anonymoose 2007-09-12 00:00|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 "The whole United States rang with its horrors," Mark Twain wrote of the massacre in Roughing It:

A large party of Mormons, painted and tricked out as Indians, overtook the train of emigrent wagons some three hundred miles south of Salt Lake City, and made an attack. But the emigrants threw up earthworks, made fortresses of their wagons, and defended themselves gallantly and successfully for five days! Your Missouri or Arkansas gentleman is not much afraid of the sort of scurvy apologies for "Indians" which the southern part of Utah affords. He would stand up and fight five hundred of them. At the end of the five days the Mormons tried military strategy. They retired to the upper end of the 'Meadows,' resumed civilized apparel, washed off their paint, and then, heavily armed, drove down in wagons to the beleagured emigrants, bearing a flag of truce! When the emigrants saw white men coming they threw down their guns and welcomed them with cheer after cheer...."

Posted by Besoeker 2007-09-12 05:13|| 2007-09-12 05:13|| Front Page Top

#2 Why did they do it in the first place?

Posted by ex-lib 2007-09-12 07:12|| 2007-09-12 07:12|| Front Page Top

#3 Long story... by coincidence I am doing a four-parter on it, at The Daily Brief.
Basically, the relationship between the LDS church from the founding of it on up to about 1880 was very bitter and contentious. The early Mormons did not get along well with the locals and the State governments where they had initially settled in Missouri and Illinois... it was so bad they removed to Utah after the murder of their founder by a mob. They still remembered that, of course. In 1857, they feared that the US government was sending an army to depose Brigham Young, murder all Mormons and lay waste to the Utah settlements. The Fancher-Baker wagon train was the last big wagon party of the trail season that year, and they happened to arrive when feelings were running very high.
This is actually a pretty big concession, although it's been suspected for decades that the orders for it came from the very highest level. The trails to California and Oregon went right through Mormon territory; this historian suspects that Brigham Young was demonstrating that he had the power to cut off transcontinental traffic, if he but gave the word.
The massacre was especially vile, becase it was planned very carefully beforehand, carried out in cold blood and the participants sworn to secrecy afterwards.

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2007-09-12 07:28|| www.celiahayes.com]">[www.celiahayes.com] 2007-09-12 07:28|| Front Page Top

#4 This 'massacre' skill could be a feature and not a bug. Can we substitute Moslems for Indians if we elect Romney?

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-09-12 07:45|| 2007-09-12 07:45|| Front Page Top

#5 Ya know, I'm really tired of apologies for historical events that the apologizer had no part in.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-09-12 07:55|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-09-12 07:55|| Front Page Top

#6 But generational guilt gives the player POWER. That's why the card is played so often. The Victimhood Game(TM).

I have no problem with 'institutions' expressing regrets for historical events [as adjudged by modern standards] that have no obligation upon the present population for compensation in some form or another.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-09-12 08:44|| 2007-09-12 08:44|| Front Page Top

#7 Good luck with your four-parter Sgt. Mom, and be sure to send the link. "Regret" indeed... regret getting caught that is. Yes, "Farmin B. Hard" but a damn sight easier with 3 wives and 17 children. Now everyone, get busy... papa must study!

Posted by Besoeker 2007-09-12 12:15|| 2007-09-12 12:15|| Front Page Top

#8 Well, I went back and read the link - Ah, well, still doesn't lay it square at Brigham Young's feet. Which is understandable; besides being a hell of a leader and administrator, he was one of those leaders who says "Take care of it!" and leaves how the subordinates take care of it strictly to them. I'm sure there'll never be written orders found - there didn't have to be. Utah at the time was essentially a theocracy, and he was at the top of the pyramid. The massacre seems to have haunted the devout LDS in southern Utah, though... because it was carried out by the militia, which meant every able bodied man and boy. They were devout and god-fearing people in the best sense of the word... and I rather think that a lot of them knew at once that what they had been encouraged to do was a heinous thing.
Part One of my essay on it is here, Part Two, Part Three and Conclusion. I really recommend the Bagley that I liked to above, also.
This is one of those sidetracks I wandered off along, after reading about it in "Roughing It". No other attack on a wagon train ever came close.
(and can I put in another plug for my book? Fred is running an ad for it along the side - Yay, Fred!)

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2007-09-12 13:34|| www.celiahayes.com]">[www.celiahayes.com] 2007-09-12 13:34|| Front Page Top

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