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2007-10-11 Fifth Column

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Posted by 3dc 2007-10-11 00:17|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 I will ululate and pass out candy at Peanuthead's funeral.

Posted by Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-10-11 02:11|| 2007-10-11 02:11|| Front Page Top

#2 So it was the fault of the military!

He was a moron when he was governor of Georgia, and it's been downhill ever since.

Posted by Bobby 2007-10-11 06:49|| 2007-10-11 06:49|| Front Page Top

#3 Go read Mark Bowden's "Guests of the Ayatollah" for a well researched look at the event that birthed our ongoing conflict with the Iranians. Warning: your contempt for Carter will be even greater when you are done. Yeah, it seems impossible, but trust me on this. The man has always been a total *bleep*wit.

Posted by SteveS 2007-10-11 07:50|| 2007-10-11 07:50|| Front Page Top

#4 Peanut Brain participated in the post Vietnam gutting of the military. Far too many troops qualified for Food Stamps to feed their kids, the lack of funding for spear parts and viable training, reduced the military to nearly a state equatable with that prior to WWII. You wouldn't have need another friggin chopper if you had allowed the guys to train, maintain, and fuel what they had. Instead, Mr. Peanut you and your Donk brethren in Congress created a world class ghetto of people who still believed in America. DoD made some bad choices in the plan and execution, but they had to work with the crap you and yours left them to make do with.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-10-11 09:21|| 2007-10-11 09:21|| Front Page Top

#5 WTF? What does he mean he should have sent 1 one chopper? Did he write the ops plan? That wouldn't surprise me one bit.
F*ckwit should have ordered the military to carry out the mission and then gotten the hell out of the way. Of course, the situation should never have gotten to that point anyway...

Posted by Spot">Spot 2007-10-11 11:07|| 2007-10-11 11:07|| Front Page Top

#6 I wonder how much better off the country would've been if somebody had pushed him out of a chopper in, like, 1977...

Posted by tu3031 2007-10-11 11:25|| 2007-10-11 11:25|| Front Page Top

#7 I've read "Guests of the Ayatollah" and Steve S's assessment is spot-on (I actually just passed it to a Vietnam-vet buddy of mine for him to read). One thing I always do is try to judge a President's actions (or lack, thereof) in the *context* of the time. On my first read of the book, I thought, jeebus, this guy faced several other issues all at the same time (USSR invading Afghanistan, the heat-up of the Iran-Iraq war, post-Vietnam flashbacks, the Oil embargo, etc.).

Then, I realized (and the author helps you realize this too), this was *ALL* because the US appeared weak. Sure, this was the first Islamofascist attack on US interests, but in the larger context, you can see the "perfect storm" of events that not only encouraged the Islamonauts, but the Russkies too.

For example, if we had just invaded (I know, very unlikely) after a few months to get our captives back, would the Russians have continued on Afghanistan (and, more directly, would Iraq have invaded Iran)? I think not. Sure, we probably would've lost most, if not all of those captives, but after 6-8 months of non-action, we *appeared* weak to the world and our allies. One thing I guess I never realized (I was only 6 at the time) was that Iraq invaded Iran DIRECTLY because we dilly-dallied around (Iraq was in the USSR's sphere of influence and Iran was in ours, at least pre-revolution). In fact, the captives actually heard and saw the Iraqis (flying MiG's) bombing Tehran incessantly, and most of the Marines at least, put 2 and 2 together. Effect, meet cause writ large.

Imagine for a moment if we had squashed Iran at that time. No Hezbollah for Israel to worry about, we wouldn't have lost 200+ Marines in the Beirut barracks bombing, and probably, Syria wouldn't be such a nuscience. The whole Shi'a side of terrorism would be non-existent. And, quite possibly, we wouldn't have given rise to some of the Sunni groups either. I know this is hindsight-quarterbacking, but that's why the President is paid the big bucks (to make decisions and *forsee* their consequences).

Posted by BA 2007-10-11 12:25|| 2007-10-11 12:25|| Front Page Top

#8 At the risk of getting pilloried, it was a combination of a lot of errors.

A joint-service force that had not worked together in operations, planning, or control. For example, the helo crews were put together at the last minute. The Marine pilots also did not have the skills for low-level, bad weather flying. Planners who miscalculated the flying-time of the helos. Weather people who, for whatever reason, did not predict the dust storm that the force encountered.

This was also a military that was suffering from poor morale, poor funding, and as a result, poor equipment conditions and practices. For example, one helo designated to be used had to be replaced because an engine FOD'ed due to a vest being left on the helo fuselage. Two other helos were taken out during the operation due to malfunctions, one of which might have been able to continue had the pilot been familiar with the aircraft.

And yes, the Commander-In-Chief and the Congress at the time had much to do with it. The bright spot is that the military learned from its mistakes. Carter never did.

Posted by Pappy 2007-10-11 21:54|| 2007-10-11 21:54|| Front Page Top

23:55 gromky
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